"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

The Genesis system does a decent job as long as the shooting is done in well lighted situations. The camera struggles in lower light situations and is much more prone to exhibiting a video-ish look in those situations. Any rapid movement or action in the frame in low light will be affected with a smearing or ghosting effect not much different from what you would see with a low priced LCD-TV.............

Yeah, well you’ve got me at a disadvantage again as I haven’t seen the movie but, it sounds like the DP was intentionally pushing the limits of the camera fighting daylight (to save $$) by playing with the shutter again like he did on Apocalypto, capturing at a film equivalent of 2000 ASA. Not much 35mm Kodak stock around having that rating, and if there was, you know the grain would be golf ball size after exposure.

I really should obtain the Blu-ray movie and watch it before I make any more comments and put my foot in my mouth but, my current mission is to get back my Blu-ray copy of The Dark Knight from my neighbors in order to watch the supplemental material………. and they have mysteriously made themselves unavailable recently.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

she takes away his Sig Sauer P226, then stuffs it pack into his pants.

I can comment on that ^…………….
Thank goodness for his privates that the trigger pull weight is higher on a Sig than a Glock.

[Penton-Man]

Gotta run.

Later.

[saprano]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I would say if you are a 12 -18 y.o. girl and/or her Mom, you will think that this movie is “like, really awesome” and talk about Robert Pattinson for weeks afterwards.

If you are the male escort of such an entourage to your local Cineplex (or, in the future, with the upcoming Blu-ray home media edition –you plan to show it in your home theater to such a select audience), then think of it as doing a good deed…………like giving blood.

The needle they stick you with isn’t that big and it’s all for a truly good cause.

I liked the movie

Cant wait for the BD

[Bobby Henderson]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Not much 35mm Kodak stock around having that rating, and if there was, you know the grain would be golf ball size after exposure.

It would be either that or under-exposed if shot on slower film stock. Even under-exposed, film wouldn't have that "beer buzz" like drag on the imagery in low light situations. Motion clarity would be better -just not as lit up as it should be.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Thank goodness for his privates that the trigger pull weight is higher on a Sig than a Glock.

The proper thing to do is not put a finger on the trigger. Actually it's gun safety cardinal rule #3: never put your finger on the trigger until you are ready to fire. Too bad Plaxico Burress forgot that tidbit. But yeah, the first pull on a DA/SA Sig P226 trigger is pretty heavy -about 10 pounds (I have a "railed" P226 with .357 Sig and .40 S&W barrels).

With striker fired guns like those from Glock or the Springfield Armory XD series, it's arguably a bad idea to have a round in the chamber unless you're set to fire at some paper targets or something. At least the SigSauer P226 has a decocking lever.

[kiskiboy97]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I can comment on that ^…………….
Thank goodness for his privates that the trigger pull weight is higher on a Sig than a Glock.

But Sig doesn't make a 10mm handgun.

[Bobby Henderson]

The 10mm round is pretty much a dead thing anymore. No chance on companies like SigSauer or Heckler & Koch supporting it. Glock is one of the last hold outs and even there the Glock 20 and Glock 29 models often have to be special ordered. They're nowhere near as common as the G17 (9mm) or G21 (.45) pistols.

I'd like to see 70mm make a strong comeback. 70mm film that is.

[blick]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

I would love it if Galaxy quest could retain its ratio change. I realize it doesn't work as well at home, but damn it was cool

Who can name the only other film (to my knowlege) currently on DVD to use that trick theatrically? (tip, the US release is crappy )

The Road Warrior has a dramatic 1.2:1 to 2.4:1 aspect ratio switch at the beginning.

[kiskiboy97]

Yes but there is just something about having 15+1 rounds of 10mm at your side.

That said I find Sigs far superior to Tupperguns, particularly the classic series. I'm not very fond of all the new variants they have been churning out recently. Who needs a "platinum" P220 anyway?
-From a guy with a "Got Sig?" sticker on the back of his truck.

[Bobby Henderson]

The fellow now in charge at SigSauer in New Hampshire used to run Kimber. And he has been "Kimber-izing" a lot of the pistols in the Sig line. Pretty odd to have a beaver tail stuck on a stainless steel P229, a sidearm meant for conceal carry.
Thankfully, the most popular models remain nearly the same with the exception of the Picatinny accessory rail.

Back on aspect ratio changes, I have trouble remembering all the ones that went from 1.33:1 to 2.39:1. Superman: The Movie was the first I ever saw do that trick. Didn't Moulin Rouge do something similar at the beginning and end?

[GabrielB]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Who can name the only other film (to my knowlege) currently on DVD to use that trick theatrically? (tip, the US release is crappy )

La Mala educación from Almodóvar also changes aspect ratio when he switches to the "film in a film scenes" vs. the "real world" scenes.

[GabrielB]

Originally Posted by Oliver K

So is it possible to get a list of films that have run through this process by Lowry ? Maybe the older Bond movies in the recent boxes ?

Unfortunately I think they removed too much grain. Sometimes it looks as though some spots "jam" as though the emulsion is "blended" or blurred. I only saw on title though as I'm not a James Bond fan (apart from Casino Royale) so maybe someone else here might have another opinion... (I wanted to see Lowry's work on Blu-Ray)

The discs were highly rated though.

But Lowry has always, in my opinion and from the information I gathered, leaned more towards removing more grain than less. But again all those titles were on DVD so maybe they were further processed. (And Citizen Kane is supposedly no longer a good example I guess since John Lowry himself admitted removing too much grain...)

Anymore input from someone else?

I know RAH wrote about their process ("good" grain vs. "bad" grain) but he never clearly said if he approved it or not...

[GabrielB]

Originally Posted by Maxpower1987

Well here is the problem, they are perpetually in committee stages about everything at TW. It is such a huge company and every decision goes through about 10 levels of management each of them doing focus groups and passing the decision upwards.

It's why nothing ever gets done. It took them a whole year to get behind Blu-ray because of their corporate structure. They are so very insulated from the world of HT (much like Sony were back in the days of DVD) that much of the higher management still believe that they are still number one in home video. They need someone like paidgeek who sees the plight of people on forums and really makes a difference directly to the quality of releases.[...]

Glad to get this input Max. Thanks!
Any insight as to the possibility of a change coming to lighten up their corporate structure - at least in the home video department - to help readjust more readily to this fast evolving industry? Or the possibility of having someone like paidgeek to act as a bridge...

So... Is it just the corporate heaviness or also lack of commitment to quality releases? Do they "get" it? Do they get it with heavy use of DNR, lack of lossless and bitstarved encodes?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

It would be either that or under-exposed if shot on slower film stock. Even under-exposed, film wouldn't have that "beer buzz" like drag on the imagery in low light situations. Motion clarity would be better -just not as lit up as it should be.

lol, Bobby that's almost like saying that the Grand Canyon is a divot on some golf course.

If motion picture film is overexposed by at least 4 stops or so, the colorist can still adjust the density back down digitally and do a grain-reduction pass. Depending upon how badly overexposed the film is, the more severe the grain reduction will have to be.
The more severe the grain reduction……..well you know, artifacts………kinda like the same artifacts you were describing occurring with the Panavision Genesis camera in low-lighting situations.

If the material is at least 3 or 4 stops underexposed, that is a helluva lot uglier than overexposure, especially for late evening or night scenes and even a DI won’t save your arse in that situation.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

The fellow now in charge at SigSauer in New Hampshire used to run Kimber. And he has been "Kimber-izing" a lot of the pistols in the Sig line. Pretty odd to have a beaver tail stuck on a stainless steel P229, a sidearm meant for conceal carry.
Thankfully, the most popular models remain nearly the same with the exception of the Picatinny accessory rail.

Me thinks I’m getting quickly waaay over my head with the gun thing, like I was with our last ‘best pizza’ debate.

All I can add is a good “safety” sequence from one fine looking Blu-ray movie……..somewhere around about the 4-5 min. mark………………………..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Caj8f2ghO4

^
Could be a good stocking stuffer for those that never did add this title to their collection.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by GabrielB

Anymore input from someone else?

I know RAH wrote about their process ("good" grain vs. "bad" grain) but he never clearly said if he approved it or not...

Yes, he mentioned awhile back that he has seen their work firsthand with his own eyes and approves of it…………correct me if I’m wrong Robert.

Gabriel -it also works on 'noise'.
I suggest you watch Miami Vice (not worked on by Lowry) then watch Zodiac (Lowry-ized) and pay particular attention to the low-lit scenes.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by saprano

I liked the movie

Cant wait for the BD

Your answer is why I’m not a movie reviewer and don’t plan ever to be one, i.e different strokes for different folks.

Just a word of advice though…………….I wouldn’t advertise the above fact to your drinkin buddies.

[horseflesh]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I really should obtain the Blu-ray movie and watch it before I make any more comments and put my foot in my mouth but, my current mission is to get back my Blu-ray copy of The Dark Knight from my neighbors in order to watch the supplemental material………. and they have mysteriously made themselves unavailable recently.

Oh yeah, Warren & Annette have always been like that

[GabrielB]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Yes, he mentioned awhile back that he has seen their work firsthand with his own eyes and approves of it…………correct me if I’m wrong Robert.

Gabriel -it also works on 'noise'.
I suggest you watch Miami Vice (not worked on by Lowry) then watch Zodiac (Lowry-ized) and pay particular attention to the low-lit scenes.

Will do... (Although I might be too immersed in the film and forget about it.)
And also I had no intention of watching Miami Vice but anyways...
I know they were both shot with the Viper cameras. But Mann rather pushed the capture didn't he?

BTW what do you think of the Lowry James Bond releases? Don't you think there ought to be a little more grain for films that age?

[Bobby Henderson]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

If motion picture film is overexposed by at least 4 stops or so, the colorist can still adjust the density back down digitally and do a grain-reduction pass. Depending upon how badly overexposed the film is, the more severe the grain reduction will have to be. The more severe the grain reduction……..well you know, artifacts………kinda like the same artifacts you were describing occurring with the Panavision Genesis camera in low-lighting situations.

Low light problems with film and video are bad, but aren't quite the same in nature.

You're probably familiar with true analog video cameras based on tube technology rather than CCDs. Anyone who has worked with those kinds of cameras knows all about "tube burn" that occurs when the camera operator allows studio lights to creep into the frame. You get those trailing streaks off of bright light sources as the camera pans across them. That's kind of an extreme example, but the lag from CCD and CMOS chips feels a little similar. It's just that CCDs and CMOS chips tend to choke on dark material instead. The chips are basically stuck wanting to finish recording one frame while the camera is piling up many others to record behind it -shutter speed be damned. That smearing and ghosting muddy stuff is the end result.

Film doesn't have that issue since every frame of film is defined physically and separately on the film strip and mechnanically by the motor in the camera. You won't have a ghost of one frame laying itself on the next frame. Of course successful exposure is another matter.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

If the material is at least 3 or 4 stops underexposed, that is a helluva lot uglier than overexposure, especially for late evening or night scenes and even a DI won’t save your arse in that situation.

When producing movies at night outdoors, every major production should budget having a Musco truck or two nearby with those telescoping football stadium style lights. 120 million candle power can't go wrong. Sometimes the DP can make that insanely powerful light source off in the distance look like the moon. It's like a fill light from God or maybe the NFL!

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

All I can add is a good “safety” sequence from one fine looking Blu-ray movie……..somewhere around about the 4-5 min. mark………………………..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Caj8f2ghO4

Jason Isaacs is a pretty good actor. Very effective villain in The Patriot. However, his work in that gun safety scene features a very ridiculous attempt at a Southern accent. Oh, and yes, your trigger finger is your primary safety. That's one of the exam questions on Oklahoma's conceal carry safety class.