"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Jeff Kleist]

Haven't you heard? They've stopped providing the cardboard coffins. You have to supply your own now.

Customer service!

I can't see why anyone would want to go THREE weeks without their console waiting for the coffin to come in the mail to save the $1.50 a box costs at staples anyway.

You can print a mailing label right off the site and put it out same day instead of waiting an eternity for it to ground ship from Texas

[Monkey]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Haven't you heard? They've stopped providing the cardboard coffins. You have to supply your own now.

Customer service!

Oh, I wasn't aware. Still the boxes have to be made then, right

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

You're both right actually. MS wanted to court a Japanese CE to get a better foothold there, and they also wanted their software and codecs running the show.

It's kind of all the same because the reason they wanted in with a Japanese CE is their standard MO: their software and codecs running the show, as you put it.

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

One thing I would like to see done in the interim: Digital copies are great, but the use-once disc is environmentally unsound, and annoying for the consumer because you can't re-access the content. Surely the ability to pay apple a quarter or whatever they're charging the studios as an authorization fee to re-rip the disc (only works for material already registered to your account) can't be that hard to do.

Don't a lot of the 'digital copy' discs simply direct you to iTunes for a download, anyway, if you put them in a Mac? I wouldn't know 'cause I've never so much as removed one of the things from its spindle. I buy Blu-ray discs for the... wait for it... Blu-ray discs.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

I can't see why anyone would want to go THREE weeks without their console waiting for the coffin to come in the mail to save the $1.50 a box costs at staples anyway.

Fair enough, but I think the bigger trick is finding one with the right dimensions. The coffins were custom-built.

Anybody done a YouTube re-fit of Logan's Run starring a rebel Xbox 360 yet?

[Jeff Kleist]

Itunes customizes the DRM file to your particular hardware, uses your hash in some way to authorize it. All it does is get the missing pieces to do the authorization from apple's servers, 99.9% of the data is on the disc it comes with.

[Jeff Kleist]

Fair enough, but I think the bigger trick is finding one with the right dimensions. The coffins were custom-built.

It's really not a big deal. you just pad it up and send it in. I put newspaper in the empty spaces. The coffins are simply a standard white cardboard box. It's really not that big a deal.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

It's really not a big deal. you just pad it up and send it in. I put newspaper in the empty spaces. The coffins are simply a standard white cardboard box. It's really not that big a deal.

Yeah, I know. I just wanted to complain because I think it's lousy that they stopped reaching a hand out to help the customers of their faulty product.

Actually, I'm one of the lucky ones, so far. I've had a 360 since they were 1 year old and it hasn't failed on me yet. It'll probably red-ring as soon as my warranty is up.

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by Eternal_Sunshine

Translation: you cannot name any lies/FUD from BD insiders...

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

Exactly.

+1








...oh, wait... I was jumping on the tribalism bandwagon... What were we ganging up for again this time? X-Box bashing? M$ hoopla? Anybody here prefer ATI to Nvidia?

Sad, really....

[Jeff Kleist]

Actually, I'm one of the lucky ones, so far. I've had a 360 since they were 1 year old and it hasn't failed on me yet. It'll probably red-ring as soon as my warranty is up.

I actually E74'd, cause the Falcons solved the traditional RROD. Unfortunately that gives the graphics scaler time to fail now

The new board revision solves both problems, and you can still do the protection payments of $50 for 2 years. Fiven that it's $100 to send in your console, it's probably worth it.

Anybody here prefer ATI to Nvidia?

For HTPC applications yes, ATI seems to do a slightly better job overall. As far as the pixel pushing wars go, it just depends on who put a board out last

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by CraigW

I have a feeling that the format war had more to do with Sony including BD in the PS3 and then choosing Java to keep as many of the MSFT tools out of the console, HDi. MSFT was PO'd about the choice of Sun toolset over theirs.

Bit of a history correction here, both Sony and Disney favored adopting HDi (or iHD as it was known then). They were voted down by the rest of the BDA.

Which ironically torpedoes the red-ant argument that "Blu-ray is Sony"

[Bobby Henderson]

I always laughed at "Blu-ray is Sony" statements coming from HD-DVD fans over the sheer hypocrisy present in that stance. More companies than merely Sony developed Blu-ray. Matsushita (parent of Panasonic) threw a lot of money into BD R&D. A multitude of electronics companies supported Blu-ray, not just Sony. On the other hand, Toshiba was nearly alone when it came to developing the HD-DVD format and manufacturing HD-DVD players.

It would be tempting to call HD-DVD the "Beta" format of this last format war. But that would be incorrect. In VHS versus Beta the more crappy format won (in a large part over Sony being the only one putting out consumer Beta gear). With the Blu-ray versus HD-DVD battle the better format won which also happened to be the format with the most manufacturers supporting it.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

+1








...oh, wait... I was jumping on the tribalism bandwagon... What were we ganging up for again this time? X-Box bashing? M$ hoopla? Anybody here prefer ATI to Nvidia?

Sad, really....

What's sad is someone coming into this thread making a claim of "jockeying/obfuscation/shenanigans" from both sides...yet when repeatedly asked for specifics and such individuals on the Blu-ray side, there is no direct, relevant response. If you are going to equate the Blu-ray side of being just as guilty as the HD DVD side of shenanigans, you need provide evidence for it. If not, I don't think it's justified to make such a claim as you did.

[Monkey]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

What's sad is someone coming into this thread making a claim of "jockeying/obfuscation/shenanigans" from both sides...yet when repeatedly asked for specifics and such individuals on the Blu-ray side, there is no direct, relevant response. If you are going to equate the Blu-ray side of being just as guilty as the HD DVD side of shenanigans, you need provide evidence for it. If not, I don't think it's justified to make such a claim as you did.

+1 Grubert and others have brought up plenty of examples to justify the claims made in regards to HD DVD side.

[Slec]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

What's sad is someone coming into this thread making a claim of "jockeying/obfuscation/shenanigans" from both sides...yet when repeatedly asked for specifics and such individuals on the Blu-ray side, there is no direct, relevant response. If you are going to equate the Blu-ray side of being just as guilty as the HD DVD side of shenanigans, you need provide evidence for it. If not, I don't think it's justified to make such a claim as you did.

he'd get banned and he knows it. he wants to stay and talk, hence the lack of response. PM him if you'd like to have a discussion about it.

[plee]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

lol, I just checked that *science* thread out, I had no idea that Amir and Lee Stewart were still posting on the internet !!!!!!!!!!!!

That thread is like a red ant revival with some of the contributors.

Man this is a bad flashback...

[Monkey]

Originally Posted by Slec

he'd get banned and he knows it. he wants to stay and talk, hence the lack of response. PM him if you'd like to have a discussion about it.

Personally I'd rather see it posted on the board. I see no reason why he'd get banned. Until he posts some actual facts like Grubert and others did well then it is just baseless claims.

[MerrickG]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

I always laughed at "Blu-ray is Sony" statements coming from HD-DVD fans over the sheer hypocrisy present in that stance. More companies than merely Sony developed Blu-ray. Matsushita (parent of Panasonic) threw a lot of money into BD R&D. A multitude of electronics companies supported Blu-ray, not just Sony. On the other hand, Toshiba was nearly alone when it came to developing the HD-DVD format and manufacturing HD-DVD players.

It would be tempting to call HD-DVD the "Beta" format of this last format war. But that would be incorrect. In VHS versus Beta the more crappy format won (in a large part over Sony being the only one putting out consumer Beta gear). With the Blu-ray versus HD-DVD battle the better format won which also happened to be the format with the most manufacturers supporting it.

the funny thing is that beta actually developed a nice little market for itself and ended up outlasting VHS.

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by Slec

he'd get banned and he knows it. he wants to stay and talk, hence the lack of response. PM him if you'd like to have a discussion about it.

*cough*

...anyhoo, just a minor correction, for what it's worth... for those above, if you're going to describe my claims, do so accurately - I never once said it was "equal", just that I felt, humbly that the Blu side wasn't entirely immune from the very things you're accusing the HD-DVD camp of doing... Honest and open self reflection is hardly the bullwark of this particular corner of the internet, certain welcoming threads moderated by Insider's notwithstanding.

So, alas, I'll leave it to others to spell out the idiotic blunders, outright incompetance and dogmatic, party line rhetoric that plagued that unhappy time in home theatre fandom from many individuals. I would hope that introspection or a bit of googling could find at least some comment by some Blu-supporter that was, in retrospect, a far cry from "truth", regardless of how far you stretch the epistemological framework you choose to cling to.

It's nice to see that many of you simply do not feel that anything untoward was done by anybody representing the blu front, and that everything that the detestible insectoid, bribing, lying, mischievious and deluded zealots on the red side made a living hell for one and all, with ripples of evil continuing to this day.

I do not fully share that position.

And, to bring it all back home, let's remember that all of this started with comments from Jeff about paid representatives from companies and an inherent suspicion about what they have to say, suggesting that they had a bias that would prevent open and honest discourse. I suggested to him that one persons shill was another's "format champion", and that the difference between bias and truth often, unfortuately, depends greatly upon whether or not you agree with the conclusions being drawn.

I also pointed out to Bill H directly how I felt that one of his reviews glossed over the difference between a fact born by his analysis and his critical conclusion regarding a technical "benefit" of this format. This, of course, few have challenged, and Jeff, for his part, even conceded the point. My point was that one need not be some nefarious agent in order to be either stretching the truth by emphasising one element over another in order to make a larger point (in this case, that the BD version =looked= better than the HD-DVD version, and one possible, and seemingly significant reason would be the extra space and bandwidth on the disc.)

Some see criminal acts of bribery on the other side, while claiming benign sponsorship or subsidization deals. Some have claims of lies and mischief, while others point to changing circumstances or evolving market conditions. Is it truly inconcievable that there are those that championed the Blu Ray format without being quite as reflective as those in this thread, unconcerned about the geniune qualities of it as a movie storage medium? Nobody on the Blu side championed this for reasons of video game platform preference, or brand loyalty, or because of one programming language over another? Are any of you saying that -nobody- got caught up in the fanfare, stretched truth, made hyperbolic statements, and helped create an antagonistic environment that delayed mass adoption of -either- HD medium for years?

The 'Bits, in contrast to many, gave us several reasoned essays about why they chose Blu over HD-DVD, and did so in a fairly open and honest manner. Others were not quite so intellectually engaging. To dangle but one example, I'm not quite sure certain famous director's claim, then retraction, then reclaim format support with the same critical honesty demonstrated by Bill, regardless of whether you agree with his conclusion....

Sometimes, for some of us, the way you come to your beliefs actually matters almost as much as what you believe - was it done through serious introspection, or a knee-jerk reaction? Did you choose because it was the choice upon reflection or because that's the way it's always been done, or because your parents voted that way, or because that's how your employer chose and it's your job to promote that fact?

For those things you feel most strong about, how much did/do you really know about contrary positions? Often the most religious, politically minded, the most fanatical or dogmatic feel so strongly that they spend little to no time even engaging with other points of view, 'till they find themselves in a cloistered, heterogenous community of like minded individuals, quick to attack positions that aren't their own and deamonizing those that speak heresy. Are those most committed to a certain point of view blind to anything of value from those that they disagree with the most, or is everything they say so tainted by the greater sin of being big-picture wrong that it glosses over anything that they'd ever have to contribute to your world view?

Ah, but that is a whole 'nother kettle of fishies.

If you want a list of egregious things that the BD camp may have done, I'm alas not the one to ask, and I'm not interested in debating the finer points of each action (nor, I'd politely suggest, would Grubert's list go unchallenged if this was an open and fair exchange of these ideas). Taking a side with such fervour often, unfortunately, blinds one to their own misfortunes, and deafens them to all but those claims that support their own predjudices or preconceptions. If it's inconceivable that this could happen about this or any topic, or that it may at times happen even to yourself, then I guess we feel differently about that as well.

But the bait is being dangled in front of me yet again, and while nibbling, I once again refuse to chomp. PM if you wish, but I will not become the whipping boy for this forum for holding what, if looked at dispasionately, should hardly bea controversial position regarding the benefits of self-analysis, self-criticism, and the benefits of healthy skepticism about even your dearest held viewpoints.

[Alan Gordon]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

So, alas, I'll leave it to others to spell out the idiotic blunders, outright incompetance and dogmatic, party line rhetoric that plagued that unhappy time in home theatre fandom from many individuals. I would hope that introspection or a bit of googling could find at least some comment by some Blu-supporter that was, in retrospect, a far cry from "truth", regardless of how far you stretch the epistemological framework you choose to cling to.

Thanks for elaborating on this for me.

This, I would, at least have to concede... though, in all honesty, most of the Blu-ray "supporters" that went over the line... mostly did so out of ignorance of the HD DVD format and less out of "stretching the truth" for Blu-ray, whereas I saw a lot more "stretching the truth" about HD DVD so as to better compete with Blu-ray... from people who SHOULD know better.

Originally Posted by sharkshark

It's nice to see that many of you simply do not feel that anything untoward was done by anybody representing the blu front, and that everything that the detestible insectoid, bribing, lying, mischievious and deluded zealots on the red side made a living hell for one and all, with ripples of evil continuing to this day.

I think the "fanboys" from both sides could easily be picked out from the more intelligent posters who went for one format or the other... and that was the problem, there were a LOT of posters who gained respect during the "format war" for their parts in discussion; some Insiders, some enthusiasts, but who all fought on the "front-lines" so to speak. Of these posters, I would indeed say that there was a bigger lack of "untoward" behavior from the Blu-ray supporters, and if there was some, it was miniscule compared to SOME (keyword: SOME) on the other side.

Originally Posted by sharkshark

Sometimes, for some of us, the way you come to your beliefs actually matters almost as much as what you believe - was it done through serious introspection, or a knee-jerk reaction? Did you choose because it was the choice upon reflection or because that's the way it's always been done, or because your parents voted that way, or because that's how your employer chose and it's your job to promote that fact?

Good points. I know many whose beliefs are arrived at for some of the very reasons you stated. The issue is, however, that if you feel that we are SO deluded by our "rose-colored glasses" (or beer-colored glasses), why do you keep feeling the need to point out that we are deluded by our own "cheerleading" urges to rewrite history?

~Alan

[sharkshark]

most of the Blu-ray "supporters" that went over the line... mostly did so out of ignorance of the HD DVD format and less out of "stretching the truth" for Blu-ray, whereas I saw a lot more "stretching the truth" about HD DVD so as to better compete with Blu-ray... from people who SHOULD know better.

I'll absolutely conceed these points.

My first meeting ever with Tosh was an HD-DVD event that I got in because a good friend worked at BestBuy. I went in his stead, it was a pretty hillarious setup, training BB employees about the latest gadgets. They were releasing a couple cool things (the HD-DVD addon, some new LCDs). I was the "foecal" disturber, mildly commenting during question periods about certain things... They had, for example, two 42" LCDs running Fast and the Furious, one with the sharpness dialed down (for DVD), and one -cranked- and in Game mode to boot to make it all look shiny and sharp. It was pathetic, and nobody else thought to look at the video settings, sort of like when some Monster Cables setup show the difference, one using HDMI, one using composite (http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/03/23...ys-electronic/)

At another event, I had the weird pleasure of letting a Tosh employee know after a long presentation that, in fact 50gb were real, not fiction, and launching that very week (Sandler movie, no? What the hell was the name of that awful POS?)

I guess that these could clearly be seen as malicious. However, I bet even the Monster 'scam' is almost entirely due to ignorance and/or idiocy, not evil. It's bad, naturally, to lie when you know you're lieing. But it's almost worse, I think, to claim something to be true before you've actually put in any work to decide for yourself based on actual experience and analsysic of competing claims.

Originally Posted by Alan Gordon

The issue is, however, that if you feel that we are SO deluded by our "rose-colored glasses" (or beer-colored glasses), why do you keep feeling the need to point out that we are deluded by our own "cheerleading" urges to rewrite history?

Thanks for some kind words.

couple things...

- many who post -here-, in this particular thread, are obviously not those of which I speak, given the (mostly) positive, open and respectful discourse that occurs here. It should be clear to anyone who is honest about their own path to fandom the points that I'm making, and who upon serious reflection may well realize that some of their hyperbole was perhaps out of line at times.

- if I'm being repetitive, it's for lack of being able to write well... Additionally, the problem always is that anybody that I'd actually want to encourage to be open minded would immediately see my posts as poision, wonder how I stormed uninvited into this part of the interwebs, "coming into this thread" (as a couple posts above) and dumping my crap for my own agenda. It's not easy to communicate tranquility without on the one hand being derided as "sunshine and roses", and often for good reason. I ain't talking Kumbaya, quite the opposite - I see bias and agenda driven discussion in everything, the key to me is to remain consistant, respectful and open to debate. The irony that I'm not free to debate the finer points of idiocy on both sides isn't lost on me, but hopefully, as I said, the larger point can be made without a bullet list of excesses, as this would not only be tiresome, it'd be highly counter productive.