"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

That doesn't really answer the question.

The colors for the NTSC broadcast standard are muted compared the full 8-bit 16.7 million color RGB standard. I personally know this from having previously worked in TV production. In preparing on-screen graphics for TV we had to be sure to keep within the NTSC "legal" color range as well as create imagery with non-square pixels in mind.

Are movie studios having their SD DVD made with color schemes conformed to NTSC limits, or do they use the full bandwidth of 8-bit RGB and merely let the "non-legal" colors clip and posterize on old SD TV sets?

HDTV standards obviously have a wider color gamut range at least very similar in range to 8-bit per channel RGB. HDTV also uses square pixels.

DVD uses SMPTE C color space (Rec 601) and is 8-bit 4:2:0 YCbCr

Blu-ray uses Rec 709 color space and is 8-bit 4:2:0 YCbCr

All players convert to at least 4:2:2 and many will output 4:4:4 or RGB. The difference between the coordinates of Rec 709 and 601 are fairly small. The grayscale limitations of both formats are the same (8 bit). Both have the same contrast capabilities.

Most differences you see have to do with more inherent resolution, and typically better sources being used for the BD transfer, as Penton already noted.

[Deciazulado]

The colour coordinates (primaries) of red and blue on HDTV/sRGB = PAL red an blue, which are just slighly a bit more saturated than SMPTE "C" ("modern" NTSC) red and blue . HDTV/sRGB green is in between PAL green and SMPTE "C" green.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

DVD uses SMPTE C color space (Rec 601) and is 8-bit 4:2:0 YCbCr

Blu-ray uses Rec 709 color space and is 8-bit 4:2:0 YCbCr

All players convert to at least 4:2:2 and many will output 4:4:4 or RGB. The difference between the coordinates of Rec 709 and 601 are fairly small. The grayscale limitations of both formats are the same (8 bit). Both have the same contrast capabilities.

Most differences you see have to do with more inherent resolution, and typically better sources being used for the BD transfer, as Penton already noted.

exactly, thanks for saving me some typing also since it is 4:2:0 on the disk, if it is outputted as 4:2:2 or shown as 4:4:4 it does not matter (and will be true for BD or DVD) the information that was originally there is lacking it is either real 4:2:0 (i.e. 4:2:0 is a subset of 4:4:4 and can be accurately represented as 4:4:4-- if you look at the image posted above you can send as RGB the values for the light/dark blues/reds in 4:4:4 as represented by the 4:2:0) or it is artificially guessing at the missing info (the disk says dark blue but should be dark red or light blue but should be dark red, on the other hand it might guess the opposite in this example and you get a checker board with light red and dark blue or anything else under the sun).It is like displays with extended pallet, some people like it, some don't, some times it helps sometimes it hurts


Also going back to resolution and colour and 4:2:0 and



the example image is good to show the definition of the different colour depths, but they are not realistic. If an encoder has the example (light blue/dark red checkerboard as seen over 4:4:4) it won't use blue and red (as seen in 4:2:0) but magenta for all of them so you would end up with a much less interesting dark/light purple checker board. On the other hand SD is 480 and BD is 1080, that is more then double in each direction. now imagine we assume the above 4:4:4 image was an SD representation of part of the image that we should get and for simplicity we are talking exactly 2x in each direction to go to HD. then each pixel on this example will be 1/4 (2x2) in HD, it won't change the grey scale (except it will be two white, two grey, two white... and two rows that are similar followed by two shifted rows).

on the other hand, for hue it is completely different. when you take the 4 of them together in SD you have two blue and two red diagonally so you end up with magenta for all 4, but in HD (we assumed 4 times instead of 6x the resolution) you have 4 blues (where there is one blue box in the 4:4:4) and 4 reds (where there is one red box in the 4:4:4) so it will use blue and red in HD instead of making it all magenta (real encoder in SD) so with 4:2:0 in HD you have the same thing (colour wise) as 4:4:4 in SD

does it help explain it better?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I’m on this Halloween theme, first with a vampire and next with ghosts.

And now with werewolves (at least in song)……….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrjSq...eature=related

Why did the pool table in this ^ feature film have an aqua hue, rather than green – which in real life, was its true color at the time the movie was shot?
Hint – because of probably the most least understood and appreciated (by videophiles) cinematographic element.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

Most differences you see have to do with more inherent resolution, and typically better sources being used for the BD transfer, as Penton already noted.

Any screenshot scientists that have any qualms as to how accurate the luminance level is on the Blu-ray of North by Northwest (since it appears by *screenshot* science to differ from a previous home media incarnation [DVD] ) is welcomed to attend the screening of a compatible film source on Wednesday evening and sit next to moi………

http://www.smpte2009.org/official-smpte-2009-schedule

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

And now with werewolves (at least in song)……….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrjSq...eature=related

Why did the pool table in this ^ feature film have an aqua hue, rather than green – which in real life, was its true color at the time the movie was shot?
Hint – because of probably the most least understood and appreciated (by videophiles) cinematographic element.

Uh, anything more complicated than this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_grading ?

Weird that it looks so aqua. Doesn't look, er, "natural"....


(*cough*)


Plus, it'd be my pleasure to attend the SMTPE event, care to fly me to LA?

Here, a Penton-style question for YOU - name the Artist and song that used SMPTE (audio) timecode in a song. As a hint, the backup singers even sing the code ("dit dit... dit dit... dit dit....")

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

Uh, anything more complicated than this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_grading ?

Nope.
In one word……..”Lighting”.

In a nutshell, in order to achieve the overall look (i.e. color) of the film desired by Martin Scorsese , the green felt of the pool tables turned aqua with the lighting that was employed by cinematographer Michael Ballhaus.

They didn’t have “Power Windows” back then to do a secondary color correction.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

Plus, it'd be my pleasure to attend the SMTPE event, care to fly me to LA?

I would if I could but, my expense account does not cover that sort of thing.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

Here, a Penton-style question for YOU - name the Artist and song that used SMPTE (audio) timecode in a song. As a hint, the backup singers even sing the code ("dit dit... dit dit... dit dit....")

No thinking questions!
I’m still recovering from attending this …………..
http://events.dailybreeze.com/los-an...ng-hugh-hefner

where I assure you that the word “natural” was never uttered……or at least only so for saline vs. silicone.
I’m told that the pics from the ‘par-tay’ will be up in about a couple weeks.
In the meantime, you’ll just have to get by with last year’s photos (all taken prior to midnight)………………
http://www2.thekarmafoundation.com/P...9/Default.aspx

After midnight -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MRu8...eature=related

[DenonCI]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

No thinking questions!
I’m still recovering from attending this …………..
http://events.dailybreeze.com/los-an...ng-hugh-hefner

where I assure you that the word “natural” was never uttered……or at least only so for saline vs. silicone.
I’m told that the pics from the ‘par-tay’ will be up in about a couple weeks.
In the meantime, you’ll just have to get by with last year’s photos (all taken prior to midnight)………………
http://www2.thekarmafoundation.com/P...9/Default.aspx

After midnight -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MRu8...eature=related

Now that's a Halloween party!

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

No thinking questions!
I’m still recovering from attending this …………..
http://events.dailybreeze.com/los-an...ng-hugh-hefner

]

Surviving that is quite an achievement. It's likely I would have fainted long before midnight...and NOT from cocktails.



46X9=

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

No thinking questions!

Anyone else? I'll give you a hint, it's the title song to a film of his...

Bigger hint... Tagline was "A movie about people who do stuff that is not normal."

I mean, it's an LA thing, I'm sure paling around with Hef is one thing, but these guys were where it was -at-...

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Nope.
In one word……..”Lighting”.

In a nutshell, in order to achieve the overall look (i.e. color) of the film desired by Martin Scorsese , the green felt of the pool tables turned aqua with the lighting that was employed by cinematographer Michael Ballhaus.

They didn’t have “Power Windows” back then to do a secondary color correction.

Weird. I now know what you were reading:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...96.html?page=1

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by SquidPuppet

Surviving that is quite an achievement. It's likely I would have fainted long before midnight...and NOT from cocktails.

46X9=

I’ve attended and “survived” since ’07.
Believe me, it hasn’t been easy on my heart.

Check out the pics (screenshot science actually good for something) from the ’07 party because some are from *after midnight* so-to-speak, unless they’ve pulled them from the site due to their graphic nature.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

Anyone else? I'll give you a hint, it's the title song to a film of his...

Bigger hint... Tagline was "A movie about people who do stuff that is not normal."

I mean, it's an LA thing, I'm sure paling around with Hef is one thing, but these guys were where it was -at-...

I should have known that without even thinking about it, since you’re a Zappa fan….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ntn8yfOmIA

Little known significant fact for men in SoCal acting like little boys at times. A baby rattlesnake can’t control their venom sacks, so with one bite they are able to deliver a lethal dose to the victim.

So says Maya, my prairie wolf.
Deci or Jason, etc., feel free to let all non-members view this pic as nobody would overcome their registration inertia to view it anyway.

Always watch where you step.jpg

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

Weird. I now know what you were reading:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...96.html?page=1

I don't read. I watch TV.

Seriously, I actually picked that up from an old Cinematography master class given by Michael Ballhaus (Bram Stoker’s Dracula) back in the day on the east coast.

Nice article though.
Who is this Thelma S. woman that they quote?
Does she wear Red Shoes by any chance ?

[Penton-Man]

Shark, I’ll be tied up for the rest of the week with the SMPTE Annual Tech Conference and Expo so I am relying on you, Bobby, Kris, Anthony, Squid, etc. to carry the ball while I’m in absentia.

[Dennis M]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

Depends on the contrast capabilities of the display. In your case, 2.4 is a good goal. But most projectors just don't have the contrast capabilities of the JVCs. I have a R35 coming in myself!

Thanks for the feedback Kris. I was iffy on setting the gamma for 2.4, since every PJ I've had before has been set for the standard 2.2. That included my trusty NEC XG135LC. Now that was a great unit in its day.
I was wondering if I would be facing any trade offs going that high.

Don't know if this has been brought up here, but what gamma level do the studios setup on their monitors when mastering?

Congrats on picking up the RS35. Your going to really like the unit. It's not all that different in performance then a well put together RS20, other than it tracks a little better when calibrated. Oh, they did change the service menus a little bit.

My unit was Calibrated by Michael Chen, using a Minolta CS-200.

Watched Transformers 2 last night. Can't say much about the screenplay, but the eye candy was fantastic.

Kind of liking the shadow detail information at the 2.4 setting.

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Does she wear Red Shoes by any chance ?

No, but she used to bang the director of that movie...

*ZING!*

3 Oscars, and this is what she's know for by real film nerds... Sweet.


Have fun at SMPTE. Don't eat any of that yellow snow...

[aygie]

Hey Penton

This is interesting God Of War III Demo Packed Into District 9 Blu-ray

Will we be seeing more SCEA and Sony Pictures collaborations in the future?
Also, will the BD be region free so that us Europeans can get our hands on the demo?