"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Constitution 101]

Forgive me Penton. You must have answered this question a thousand times, but here goes:how do the studios decide which movies come to blu-ray? Obviously you've got your recent blockbusters, but I just saw Dreamscape on the pre-order list. I've nothing against that movie per se, but for cryin' out loud! What about like, oh I don't know-Saving Private Ryan or something like that? Wouldn't that sell more than some of these obscure older movies? This is something that's frustrated me(and others I assume) for some time.

[KubrickFan]

Penton, I know we're already getting spoiled with Paul Thomas Anderson's Magnolia and Boogie Nights on Blu-ray (I also know you must've gotten this question a lot of times, already) but do you have information on when Punch-Drunk Love will be released on Blu? The trippy visuals and music would be amazing, and I know Sony will make it look good.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Constitution 101

Forgive me Penton. You must have answered this question a thousand times, but here goes:how do the studios decide which movies come to blu-ray? Obviously you've got your recent blockbusters, but I just saw Dreamscape on the pre-order list. I've nothing against that movie per se, but for cryin' out loud! What about like, oh I don't know-Saving Private Ryan or something like that? Wouldn't that sell more than some of these obscure older movies? This is something that's frustrated me(and others I assume) for some time.

It is very complicated due to a multiplicity of factors and can not to adequately described with some sort of linear flowchart decision making………..
conditional structures

I will say that a major determining factor is that of the cost of preparing a movie for BD vs. the expected revenue in sales it will generate. In that regard, the single most important criteria has always been and remains to this day, whether or not a good HD master is available and if not, that’s where the lion’s share of the cost in BD production comes into play, which increases arithmetically or geometrically depending upon how far upstream you must paddle, i.e. – remastering, to going back to the film itself to create better film elements to start with.

Generally, experience with Q.A.’ing HD masters has shown that the vast majority of titles prior to a certain year (which I won’t reveal) are going to need a have a new HD master created because of interim advances in technology.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

Waitadamnminit... You're getting your STAFF to find your links for you?

Oops.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by KubrickFan

Penton, I know we're already getting spoiled with Paul Thomas Anderson's Magnolia and Boogie Nights on Blu-ray (I also know you must've gotten this question a lot of times, already) but do you have information on when Punch-Drunk Love will be released on Blu? The trippy visuals and music would be amazing, and I know Sony will make it look good.

Sorry, see
https://forum.blu-ray.com/insider-di...ml#post2756760

[Jeff Kleist]

Waitadamnminit... You're getting your STAFF to find your links for you?
Oops.

I'd check the contents of your coffee cup on Monday Penton

I did know a couple of VPs at a major company that would have "staff crazy day" every once in awhile. The person whose assistant lasted the longest would get a bonus

[KubrickFan]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Sorry, see
https://forum.blu-ray.com/insider-di...ml#post2756760

Okay, no biggie .

Probably for the best, too. Otherwise you'd be swamped by folks wanting to know which title comes out when all the time. Like the Criterion Facebook page.

[GGX]

Why does Sony bother with lossless audio on dub tracks? I know Sony always presents the original audio in lossless as well but why give any importance to a dub? Gah! Why promote such a thing?

Thats one thing I absolutely cherish about Criterion, they don't even bother with such things (dubs).

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by CraigW

Hell I was trying to warn these fools two years ago that hardware fails and if you sunk a lot of money into HD DVD software you better have a backup plan because they only made the playback HW for about 2 years. It is not like laserdisc where there was a near twenty year run on player production. Good luck finding a working HD DVD player in a couple of years.

I was not on AVS at the time gave up much earlier (just before I joined here) but it was the same everywhere (even here and some other AV forums I am a member of). And like you I could not believe how dense and blinded these people where and it was always the same stupid answers "Toshiba will never let us down they will always make HD DVD players" or "look I can go on ebay and buy a VHS player". That realization that HD DVD never had a real life could not even pass the fanboyism

[blindcat87]

I wonder how many who are so virulent in their disdain of dubs would change their opinions if they found themselves unable to read subtitles?

I absolutely support the point of view that the original language track should get the lossless treatment and while I was saddened by the need to pick one or the other for DD 5.1 or DTS treatment on DVD, this is BD. Both original and dub can get lossless and I find the idea that the capability shouldn't be used because some people sniff dismissively at dubs to be shortsighted and elitist. Certainly the original language track is the superior choice, but if you are a film fan that is blind or severely dyslexic, unless you are surrounded by people with the same love of film who will fall all over themselves to read subs for you, you don't have much of a choice. Why should I be prevented from experiencing lossless audio on Blu-ray because some people seem to feel that the very inclusion of a lossless dub or a dub at all for that matter in some cases somehow degrades the release? The very thing you laud Criterion for has locked me out of a number of films I would dearly love to own. In their case I am aware that budgetary concerns might prevent their producing dubs where none exist, but if they would include previously existing dubs, I would have access to a number of films I currently do not. If it came down to a choice of one track or the other in lossless, I would definitely accept that the original language track should be chosen, but a look at some of Sony's releases with multiple lossless tracks show that having a original language and dub track on the same BD will rarely, if ever, be a major problem. There is more than enough room and bandwidth for great picture and two lossless audio tracks.

I've had a couple of people tell me that if they ever lost their sight, they would rather do without their favorite films than listen to a dub track. Actually being in that position however, I say you don't know what hated foods might become a feast to you until you've been truly hungry. Not that I am comparing the lack of being able to watch all the films I would wish to the plight of the truly hungry in the world, I am only saying that no matter what one imagines, one cannot know how one would feel until one is actually in the situation and realizes the full truth of what one's options are and which options are now barred.

Chris

Originally Posted by GGX

Why does Sony bother with lossless audio on dub tracks? I know Sony always presents the original audio in lossless as well but why give any importance to a dub? Gah! Why promote such a thing?

Thats one thing I absolutely cherish about Criterion, they don't even bother with such things (dubs).

[GGX]

Originally Posted by blindcat87

I've had a couple of people tell me that if they ever lost their sight, they would rather do without their favorite films than listen to a dub track.

Ooh I think I could agree with that.

[blindcat87]

Like I said, you can say that now, but until loss of your sigh becomes a part of your reality and not just a theoretical, it is hard to say. I had a lot of definite opinions about how I might handle such a thing, and then, just as I was getting into my college years, I was diagnosed with RP. Before that, I disdained audio books because I could read a good sized novel in an afternoon, so why would I want to have some slow reader bore me? I was an anime and foreign film fan, how could I possibly tolerate dubs? Now it is those or nothing. I very much want to watch Pan's Labyrinth, but haven't been able to find anyone willing to sit through it with me to read subs, so no Pan's for me. My love of anime hasn't lessened one bit, but the closest anime fan friends I have are about 400 miles away, so dubs or no anime at all for me. I now have a massive collection of unabridged audio books. I still get frustrated at the loss of my speed reading ability and bemoan the lack of some of the obscure titles I love in audio format, but it beats not having any access to books for someone with a degree in literature. I am now approaching 38 and am getting close to a point where I have been legally blind for as long as I was fully sighted, and my perspective has changed drastically over the years.

I could stick to my books and my English language films, but why should I be forced to do without when there is a way to allow me access available? If the US were to do something like the project for Dutch speakers that is attempting to create a collection of subtitle reading tracks for blind speakers of the language to use for watching foreign films, I might feel differently, but I don't think something like that is likely to happen here any time soon. It would be a nice idea, particularly since BD Live might allow blind users to access such tracks through their player if such a system were developed, but I shudder to think of the logistics and expense of such a thing. So, barring that, dubs are the only game in town, and while some, most particularly some bad anime dubs, are so bad as to challenge even my forcibly developed tolerances, having the dubs is better than nothing.

Chris

Originally Posted by GGX

Ooh I think I could agree with that.

[Objectivity]

Originally Posted by GGX

Ooh I think I could agree with that.

I don't get this attitude. If you don't like dub tracks, don't listen to them. But, it's the ultimate arrogance to force your opinion on others.

My wife is legally blind. She's not into foreign films necessarily, her loss, but if she was, the option isn't there in many cases meaning she can't watch, even if she wanted to, because there are people with your attitude who think depriving others of something they need because of a handicap places them onto the Mt. Rushmore of film fans.

Of course, there's also the author who I recently asked why their books weren't on the Kindle and was basically told, "I know there are people who are visually impaired and people in the military fighting overseas who would greatly benefit, but I don't want people to forget about the fine art of paper making and how our lives would be empty without it."

I can understand that argument better than yours. In the author's case, it's providing the art in a whole different medium. With Blu-Ray, it's an option that can easily be ignored if you find it offensive.

[sharkshark]

Good lord... we've often joke about "empty box", mystical Home Theatre stuff... Rocks atop speakers/components, green markers on your CDs... Heck, even boiling discs for playback.

But this story caught my eye... Not only because it's a "tech" device promising performance that's unmeasurable, but because even when confronted with the objective testing that shows that it's claims are disengenuous or downright false, the owners (in this case, the Iraqi government) stand by their purchase.

View the Magic Bomb Detector....

Speaker rocks won't kill you (one hopes). Pathetic faith in the mystical powers of static electricity powered bomb detection divining rods just might.

[Jeff Kleist]

I wonder how many who are so virulent in their disdain of dubs would change their opinions if they found themselves unable to read subtitles?

Nope. I simply wouldn't watch the movie if I didn't speak the language in question. If I were to inherit Bill Gate's fortune, and buy myself a studio, I would remove all dubs from our video product and forbid any international distributors from dubbing the movies

I would also finance a braille reader along the linesthe one in Sneakers that can read subs off like closed captioning or DBox does, or find some other acceptible assist for the visually impaired

[Doctorossi]

I can't stomach dubs, but I don't begrudge anyone else them.

[blindcat87]

Actually, subtitle reading would be a much better solution. The braille literacy rate is absolutely frightening. Even many with basic skills for reading grade 1 braille for signs and such often can't read grade 2 braille with all of the contractions that make reading so much more convenient. An extension of the DVS scheme would work very well. I would happily see the end of dubs if there was another valid option, but I just can't make myself do without getting at least the degraded experience of dubbed films in lieu of another option.

For me, the nice thing about sub reading would be that, since I am used to listening to audio input from two different sources at once I would still get the benefit of the original performer's voice, intonations and so on with very little effort. I generally use DVS tracks once, I then have enough of an idea of what is going on to not need it after that, so after that point, I would only need the sub reading track and would be able to watch and enjoy the film as intended whenever I want. Of course, the Dutch sub reading program I spoke of is being handled in the same way the Library of Congress handles the NLS, National Library Service for the blind and disabled here, so it has funding and does not require a lot of extra expense and work for the distributors of foreign films there. I think it actually works via a digital format via a handheld device with syncup instructions rather than something actually included with the film, that would work, but it would be doubly cool to have the ability to download the track via BD Live and have it mixed in like secondary audio. Not a dream I really expect to have come true, but a drem nonetheless. I also dream of being able to download DVS tracks for films that get them done after BD release, but am just really glad that certain studios have begun offering them on new releases that have them available.

Chris

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Nope. I simply wouldn't watch the movie if I didn't speak the language in question. If I were to inherit Bill Gate's fortune, and buy myself a studio, I would remove all dubs from our video product and forbid any international distributors from dubbing the movies

I would also finance a braille reader along the linesthe one in Sneakers that can read subs off like closed captioning or DBox does, or find some other acceptible assist for the visually impaired

[neo_reloaded]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Nope. I simply wouldn't watch the movie if I didn't speak the language in question. If I were to inherit Bill Gate's fortune, and buy myself a studio, I would remove all dubs from our video product and forbid any international distributors from dubbing the movies

I would also finance a braille reader along the linesthe one in Sneakers that can read subs off like closed captioning or DBox does, or find some other acceptible assist for the visually impaired

You'd rather never experience a film than experience it to the best of your abilities? I just don't understand that.

I mean, really - even subtitles are a step removed from the "true" film (for foreign films, not the few US/UK ones that were originally crafted with subtitles in mind and meant for an English-speaking audience). For those unable to understand the original language, subtitles are added so they can follow. But certainly something is lost by not understanding the original language - no translation is perfect, and certain concepts are difficult to describe outside the original language. There is an inherent disconnect between what is being said and the performance of the actor giving it. And you just plain can't focus on the visuals as much as you could if you weren't also reading the subtitles at the same time. With this in mind, do you think it would be reasonable or understandable for someone to refuse to watch any movie that had languages they could not understand? Or would you consider that foolish?

If you are blind, dubs are just another step further away from the true film. Is it unfortunate, and less than optimal? Of course. But if I were, god forbid, blinded one day, I would much rather continue to watch foreign movies with a dub track than forever miss out on those opportunities. If you personally disagree, well I guess that's one thing - that is each individual's decision to make for themselves. But saying if you were in control of the company you would completely abolish dubs and deprive others of that choice - essentially making it so the blind could never experience the films? That borders into egotism.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by aramis109

Pretty exciting news both for blu-ray and movie lovers in general methinks. The archival capabilities are intriguing to say the least.

Well, I see we’ve got a dedicated thread about it which I provided by 2 cents worth……
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...20#post2827220

One thing which I notice is being totally overlooked in discussion of this particular re-mastering, and probably is of greater home viewing practical significance because it theoretically should provide a more accurate *look* to the Blu-ray edition of Minority Report compared to the release prints which some folks saw at their local Multiplex, really has little at all to do with the 4k re-mastering pipeline but, is more related to the digital re-mastering process itself…..regardless of whether it had been done at 4k or 2k resolution.

Does anyone know what I’m referring to?
It’s the major reason why Clint Eastwood adopted the digital intermediate process over the photochemical process when he was trying to most optimally achieve this same *look* for Flags of Our Fathers, Letters from Iwo Jima, Changeling and to a lesser extent Gran Torino.

[Vincent Pereira]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Well, I see we’ve got a dedicated thread about it which I provided by 2 cents worth……
https://forum.blu-ray.com/blu-ray-mo...ml#post2827220

One thing which I notice is being totally overlooked in discussion of this particular re-mastering, and probably is of greater home viewing practical significance because it theoretically should provide a more accurate *look* to the Blu-ray edition of Minority Report compared to the release prints which some folks saw at their local Multiplex, really has little at all to do with the 4k re-mastering pipeline but, is more related to the digital re-mastering process itself…..regardless of whether it had been done at 4k or 2k resolution.

Does anyone know what I’m referring to?
It’s the major reason why Clint Eastwood adopted the digital intermediate process over the photochemical process when he was trying to most optimally achieve this same *look* for Flags of Our Fathers, Letters from Iwo Jima, Changeling and to a lesser extent Gran Torino.

I'm guessing the "bleach bypass look", which is very expensive to do photochemically and as such is usually reserved for select "show prints" while the bulk of the release prints are processed normally.

Vincent