"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Mr. Cinema]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

the disc is still in stores, no? Again, that's a deflection... If classics aren't selling, and don't continue to sell even for MAJOR directors (we'll see how Minority Report etc. does past the opening week), then there's trouble longer term.

Again, I only have sales numbers from the likes of this forum, and am by no means an expert in such things. But if anybody really things that Classic films are the driving force of this format (as opposed to DVD, where it played a major role) then, well, I think you're mistaken.

Best Buy still carries Close Encounters. Their price NOW is 19.99. Walmart was carrying Close Encounters recently for 15.

Best Buy's price when Close Encounters debuted on BD? 44.99

I doubt many were lining up to pay that. I'm using their debut price as an example because they still are the #1 HD retailer, where the majority of BD owners buy from. That sticker price would scare me off too.

[Mr. Cinema]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

I also wouldn't use CE3K as an example, you don't screw with Spielberg The movie has simply not aged well though, and is nowhere near as accessible as his other titles. It's very much stuck in the 70s, slow paced, and very little happens for the middle 70 minutes or so to keep virgin audiences interested. Add to that that that it doesn't have a lot of great pop for the armchair viewer, and it's not really suprising that people are reluctant to upgrade it.

I agree here. If CE3K wasn't available on BD yet, and you asked members to make a wishlist of Spielberg titles they want on BD, CE3K probably wouldn't crack the top 10 on the majority of them. Spielberg is my favorite director, but CE3K isn't a favorite of mine. I, along with most, I'm assuming, would much rather have Jaws, Saving Private Ryan, Indy, Jurassic Park, Schindler's List, etc.

Luckily, we're getting some of those sooner than later. I'd even rather have Duel over CE3K.

It's the same thing when Sony released Passage to India. Nobody wanted that title. We did, and still, very much want Lawrence of Arabia and River Kwai.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Cliff

I want to make this post because it'll be the best place to archive what I'm about to say...

Saw Kick-Ass this weekend (three times actually) and noticed the image contains a very familiar look that I think will be interesting once it comes to Blu-ray. Skin textures were very smooth looking (the kind of smooth that gets the torches lit and the pitchforks to be sharpened). This was especially "strong" on Mark Strong, with his face often containing a very smoothed over, waxy appearance, but it was noticeable throughout on all actors. I'll be interested what the screenshot "cry"entists make of it (the theatrical look probably won't even measure as a blip of consideration).

It sure as heck won’t if it interferes with a good ole screenshot scientist stoning of a particular title.

My internet watchdog PM’ed me this link from Kram (or how many times during my lifetime I can directly or indirectly insult Robert Harris) Sacul -
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...5&postcount=17

He then goes on to refer to Club Penton and Vincent Pereira’s posting presence here as “hanging out in *swanky* insider lounges and calling people on this forum idiots and tools is really classy, right?”

Hey Kram, I always thought of the ‘Club’ as *exceedingly elegant* or *studiously stylish* or *scientifically sophisticated with a hyper hip ambience* but hey, I’ll take “swanky” if that’s the best you can do.

Kram, for the record, we don’t think you’re an “idiot” or a “tool” despite the fact that Vincent may have said so in the past. The consensus is that you’re a bitter bugger that needs to go out and get a real job…like RAH.

P.S.
Cliff, thanks for the post. I realize that it is not always possible for Blu-ray reviewers to watch the theatrical presentations of modern day motion pictures which they later may review as Blu-rays but, I think that if more did (and publically posted their impressions months prior to the actual Blu-ray review) it would dispel a lot of the myths regarding some of the eventual Blu-ray incarnations...kinda like if screenshot scientists actually truthfully watched a movie in real time and posted their impressions prior to *microscopic* examination.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

I thought similar things regarding your comments about Sony's treatment of Close Encounters (a gorgeous disc, with lots of time spent on it clearly, aside from the branching stuff). If I recall, sales were crap.

I would say 'disappointing' despite all the effort by dedicated technologists as well as executives.
On that note, how do you think The Natural will sell?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by fitprod

Actually, put the effort into the NFL's regular season and a few random College Football and Basketball games in the 4th quarter of 2010, when the bulk of TV upgrades are pushed, and maybe you have something.

fitprod

The idea is to time or coincide the worldwide Sony 3D TV launch in June with one of the greatest worldwide sporting events… because sports will drive 3D TV adoption rate, and broadband upgrades for that matter (as Amir smiles to himself while reading this) -

http://gigaom.com/2010/04/16/sports-...band-upgrades/

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by uniquetreatone

I just like to say after lurking and reading this thread everyday it's finally starting to make sense...

*scientifically sophisticated with a hyper hip ambience*

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema

It's the same thing when Sony released Passage to India. Nobody wanted that title. We did, and still, very much want Lawrence of Arabia and River Kwai.

Not to worry, despite sales expectations, you'll get both of them.

[Mr. Cinema]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Not to worry, despite sales expectations, you'll get both of them.

I'll be buying both. I guarantee it. And that movie where Bobby D drives that taxi.

As for The Natural, I don't expect it to dominate the top 20, but I think it'll be a consistent seller. Baseball season is here, which will help, but the film is also widely regarded as THE baseball movie. I'm also of that opinion. I just wished Sony had included the Director's Cut. I've seen the theatrical version dozens of times, but do prefer the DC. However, the current version is sitting on my wishlist at Amazon and will be purchased sooner than later. There's alot of stuff out right now that I want.

I've also noticed a new list price now for Sony catalogs. I'm glad to finally start seeing $24.99 list prices, which includes The Natural and the upcoming Bad Boys.

[KubrickFan]

Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema

I agree here. If CE3K wasn't available on BD yet, and you asked members to make a wishlist of Spielberg titles they want on BD, CE3K probably wouldn't crack the top 10 on the majority of them. Spielberg is my favorite director, but CE3K isn't a favorite of mine. I, along with most, I'm assuming, would much rather have Jaws, Saving Private Ryan, Indy, Jurassic Park, Schindler's List, etc.

Luckily, we're getting some of those sooner than later. I'd even rather have Duel over CE3K.

It's the same thing when Sony released Passage to India. Nobody wanted that title. We did, and still, very much want Lawrence of Arabia and River Kwai.

I thought CE3K was a certified classic, guess I'm wrong . I still love the movie and the Blu-ray, though. One of the very few titles I have double dipped three times on.
But did it really sell that bad?
A Passage to India was probably released to find out if there was a market for the not quite classic catalog. Sure, the 'real' (this is subjective most of the time) classics will sell fine, but there are many other titles that deserve to be seen in HD as well.

[Tok]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Not to worry, despite sales expectations, you'll get both of them.

But the real question is when Penton.

Sony was featuring Lawrence since nearly day 1 in BD promotional material. Here we are nearly four years into the format and still no Lawrence.

Not trying to be confrontational... it's just that we want Lawrence and Kwai now.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by CraigW

Not trying to be confrontational... it's just that we want Lawrence and Kwai now.

Speak for yourself, Craig. I don't want them now; I want them best.

I do agree with you, though, that Sony's use of the Lawrence vapor promotional tool has been a little disingenuous. It really shouldn't be in the promo materials until it's ready to go.

[Tok]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Speak for yourself, Craig. I don't want them now; I want them best.

I do agree with you, though, that Sony's use of the Lawrence vapor promotional tool has been a little disingenuous. It really shouldn't be in the promo materials until it's ready to go.

Isn't best assumed with the BD format?

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by CraigW

Isn't best assumed with the BD format?

Uh... perhaps by people not familiar with the history of Hollywood's treatment of its film materials.

Blu-ray can represent those materials quite well, but they have to be in good shape first.

[Tok]

Originally Posted by fitprod

I don't think the hate for 3D comes from hating anything *new*, it's more trepidation about the general future of 3D. It's been a fad twice before, the '50's and '80's, and died fairly quickly.
...

Then we have the ultimate issue that is going to be the biggest stumbling block. Most everyone that upgraded to HD did so in the past three years, and then there's the more limited niche of us who bought new Blu-ray players and receivers. - Basically, if we want 3D, everything we own is completely obsoleted. For me, this is very annoying since I just updated my receiver a little more than a year ago, and basically had to buy a new TV in September since my LED DLP from Samsung shot itself in the head and died.

The hate is not coming the general hate of anything "new" it is the general problem of having to upgrade, again.

The real big question is was it really necessary to require new TVs for 3D for the syncing system. Sure I could see some TVs having issues with the 3D framerate.

Sega had a 3D LCD shutterglass system many years ago that did not require new display equipment. Sure it was only 15 frames/sec and low resolution, but it did work rather well for the 3D. I am just not convinced that 3D BD really needed to require a new display to work. It would not have been difficult for the player to have the syncing hardware and software algorithm.

Again all 3D BD is when decoded by the player is a video stream 1080p48(24L, 24R) with a blanking interval between the L-R frames.

[Mr. Cinema]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Uh... perhaps by people not familiar with the history of Hollywood's treatment of its film materials.

Blu-ray can represent those materials quite well, but they have to be in good shape first.

My mind is fuzzy on the details, but I thought originally, Sony's then current master for Lawrence, that they were going to go with, was not up to par, so they decided to re-do the whole thing. I thought Penton mentioned that work was being done on it as far back as 2008. The P-Man will know the details better, of course.

[JamesN]

Originally Posted by CraigW

The real big question is was it really necessary to require new TVs for 3D for the syncing system. Sure I could see some TVs having issues with the 3D framerate.

Sega had a 3D LCD shutterglass system many years ago that did not require new display equipment. Sure it was only 15 frames/sec and low resolution, but it did work rather well for the 3D. I am just not convinced that 3D BD really needed to require a new display to work. It would not have been difficult for the player to have the syncing hardware and software algorithm.

Again all 3D BD is when decoded by the player is a video stream 1080p48(24L, 24R) with a blanking interval between the L-R frames.

The challenge is not so much with the "framerate" or refresh rates of the displays (although higher refresh rates help reduce flickering inherent in shutterglasses). Rather the challenge is with the decay rate, or persistence, of pixels in a given display technology. Persistent image artifacts (which in 2D manifest as anomalies such as motion blur), in 3D can introduce crosstalk (or "ghosting"), whereby some of the image intended for one eye "leaks" into the other.

Even the new generation of 3DTVs, which are built from the ground up to be 3D compatible, are struggling with this issue.

[Jeff Kleist]

It's the same thing when Sony released Passage to India. Nobody wanted that title. We did, and still, very much want Lawrence of Arabia and River Kwai.

Well, _I_ wanted it But yes, Joe 6 Pack had never even heard of it. It was up in the re-promote rotation and I'm glad they did it though, the disc is beautiful.

Saw Kick-Ass this weekend (three times actually) and noticed the image contains a very familiar look that I think will be interesting once it comes to Blu-ray. Skin textures were very smooth looking (the kind of smooth that gets the torches lit and the pitchforks to be sharpened). This was especially "strong" on Mark Strong, with his face often containing a very smoothed over, waxy appearance, but it was noticeable throughout on all actors. I'll be interested what the screenshot "cry"entists make of it (the theatrical look probably won't even measure as a blip of consideration)
.....

P.S.
Cliff, thanks for the post. I realize that it is not always possible for Blu-ray reviewers to watch the theatrical presentations of modern day motion pictures which they later may review as Blu-rays but, I think that if more did (and publically posted their impressions months prior to the actual Blu-ray review) it would dispel a lot of the myths regarding some of the eventual Blu-ray incarnations...kinda like if screenshot scientists actually truthfully watched a movie in real time and posted their impressions prior to *microscopic* examination.

I pointed it out in my thread on Thursday, where we had been discussing such things

[sharkshark]

re: Penton's comment about how will the Natural sell? Compared to what? It'll sell buttloads less than lesser films, but more than others that might be more deserving.

Cryptic? Sure...

How's this - how much does it need to sell to get its money back (re: the mastering/production for HD home release)? Or is it a "loss leader", like network news used to be...?

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Mr. Cinema

As for The Natural, I don't expect it to dominate the top 20, but I think it'll be a consistent seller. Baseball season is here, which will help, but the film is also widely regarded as THE baseball movie.

Perhaps. But another baseball film I enjoy is A League of Their Own. Looking forward to getting that one on BD...and hopefully they fix the screwed up sound channel layout of the DVD SE.

My folks recently got BD players for Christmas and Pops asked about that film right away. So there's a market for it!

PS: I still want Fools Rush In. Need my Salma HD fix.

[Jeff Kleist]

Shark you need to add some parameters to your question. Are there new Blu-specific bonus features? Are you just talking authoring and compression for the basic feature set? How much restoration is involved and what kind?

That can literally change the numbers by tens of thousands of copies.