"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Penton-Man]

Bobby, I know you’re open-minded so I’ll toss this out (in my best Canadian accent) to other readers since I’ve offered very little commentary online about 3D movies.

Good 3D movies will not be a “gimmick”. Anyone who constantly refers to Stereoscopic 3D Cinema as such is uninformed and to me, sounds almost like for example, people calling “all blondes dumb”. The fact is, 3D filmmaking is already proving to be a complex technological science to do well. It is no more a “gimmick” than when a 2D cinematographer purposely uses a shallow depth of field in a scene to draw attention to an actor while making the remainder of the image in the frame purposely out of focus to achieve that end……something which is commonly done in traditional filmmaking day in and day out of which nobody complains or even gives a second thought to.

As the industry gains more experience, I believe filmmakers interested in doing modern day 3D are more inclined to treat it as another artistic tool to capture the attention of theater-goers and home theater enthusiasts by using 3D depth to accentuate thee emotional dynamics of a motion picture. For example, when the 3D convergence distance is deep behind the screen, subconsciously, it invokes a sense of a large empty space, majestic grandeur, etc. the opposite of an intimate setting. A traditional cinematographer would only have something like a panoramic view in his arsenal to achieve this same emotional dynamic.

Vocal antagonists to 3D who have little or no experience with stereoscopic cinema should be mindful of a little past cinematic history, namely, when sound for motion pictures first debuted in the olden days, some people also claimed that sound was “a gimmick” with critics sarcastically questioning if the motion picture industry was trying to make movies into musicals.

That being said, there is no guarantee that viewers will get quite the same robust magnitude of *3D impact* from home viewing as they have gotten from excellent commercial theatrical exhibition with 3D. Recent academic research (of which there is very little) in vision science related to 3D viewing supports the concept that is just not possible, or at least, impossible without risking visual fatigue and headache.

A technical paper by Hoffman et.al. published in 2008 which addresses what I’m talking about in greater detail is located here- http://www.journalofvision.org/8/3/33/article.aspx.
Their research suggests a ‘comfortable viewing’ range for how far 3D effects move behind and in front of the viewing screen without causing visual discomfort and fatigue.

In practical terms, what all the techno mumbo-jumbo means to stereographers, who author home versions of 3D movies for home theater displays (or any 3D content for that matter, meaning games, etc.) is that in order for 3D to be comfortable and not visually fatiguing during viewing with a home 3D display, it must be more compressed toward the screen (percentage-wise) as compared to that with commercial movie theater exhibition. In other words, it can’t be as *aggressive* in terms of depth of field (due to vergence-accommodation conflict) as theatrical exhibition can.

For instance, if you run the numbers and I did my math correctly, the academic research suggests that the 3D effect of an object or scene safely (without risking visual fatigue or at least intolerance) coming out from the screen towards the audience would be about 87% of the distance to you when seated about 65 ft. away from the screen in a commercial theater……..about 62% of the distance towards you when seated about 16 ft. away from a home theater screen…..about 14% of the distance towards you when seated about 20 inches away from your computer display and a measly 8% of the distance towards you when holding one of those handheld displays 10 inches from your eyes.

Get the drift?, the *3D impact* is non-linear. Decreasing returns as your screen is smaller and smaller in size…..without theoretically risking intolerable vergence-accommodation conflict and visual fatigue…..of which the viewers’ age and elasticity of the lens will also be determining factors.
Bonus points goes to anyone who can tell me what the chief agent of accommodation (focusing) of the eye is, i.e., I’m referring to a muscle in da eye.

Moving on.

Should you still get a ‘good/excellent 3D experience’ with 3D movies at home?
Yes, most definitely.

Will it rival or surpass that of the commercial theatrical 3D experience (provided those projector lamps are not on their last leg, and there is no asymmetrical luminance between them) ?
That would be tough……a very tough nut to crack based on the science to date.

As an aside, I was tempted to scope out Panny’s Olympic 3D Theater Pavilion in Vancouver as a lame excuse to put the whole trip on my expense account under……”international research”.

However, after the alcohol wore off following USA’s win over Finland in ice hockey to guarantee us a place in the final , common sense prevailed and got the best of me when I realized no way I could write off even a portion of the vacation without raising some peoples’ eyebrows.

For those who may not be following the Olympics, there’s a little hockey game on TV tomorrow.
Gotta run.

[DenonCI]

I will be glued to my TV tomorrow watching the hockey game. "Can you believe in Miracles (again)?"

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

No love for moi?
Oh, how quickly we forget.

Naah, I just wanted for you to be back for my big thanks to you

So here's a big thank you for putting in a word with Grover for me - much appreciated and definitely not forgotten

And while I am at it thanks for having this huuuuge thread here on Blu-ray.com! This is the only place on the web where we enthusiasts can regularly engage in conversation with a high level executive of a major studio so here is another one just for you. You deserve it and I think I can say that we are all happy you kept at it even after a short period of doubt last year

And now I will stop with the praise - too much is not good for the ego

[Jeff Kleist]

hark,
I purposely always tilted my head down ala Gene Hackman style in Enemy of the State whenever any helicopters approached overhead or while walking around in Whistler Village where they have those sneaky webcams set up………

Like I have the budget for a helicopter Much cheaper just to pay off the guys selling red hots

[Bobby Henderson]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Bonus points goes to anyone who can tell me what the chief agent of accommodation (focusing) of the eye is, i.e., I’m referring to a muscle in da eye.

It's the Ciliary muscle. To be honest, I had to look it up. Not many people besides eye doctors will know the answer by heart.

Headaches and eye strain are a real risk with 3D not done right. That's because the eyes are being asked to do something unusual when tricked into seeing 3D while focused on a large, flat object (the movie screen). We look at real life objects with the focal plane always lining up with the convergence point of where the our two eyes are aimed. We can maintain focus on a stationary object (a movie screen) while allowing the convergence point to move in front and behind the screen. But we can put up with this only to certain limits.

3D in commercial theaters can work really well if the systems are properly installed, set up and maintained. The digital-based systems have some serious limits in terms of lamp brightness and effective screen size. The film-based version of IMAX-3D is really the only commercial system that works well on giant sized screens.

I'm pretty curious about any kind of limitations that may be present in new 3D capable televisions. It's just a hunch, but viewing angles is one issue that might bear watching with LCD-based TVs. It could be an issue with all. Hopefully it turns out to be a non-issue. Hopefully the 3D capable TV sets work great and sell well as a result. We need a few "next big thing" pieces of technology to help kick the economy further into positive territory. That's what happened back in the early 1980s. Video game consoles, personal computers, portable tape decks and CD players helped end that bad recession.

[4K display]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I don’t know if it got much (if any) coverage here in the States but, in the Village, the most awe-inspiring medal performance (at least, via word-of-mouth after her condition had become known) was that of the Slovenian XC racer Petra Majdic?sp. who captured a Bronze medal racing with several fractured ribs and a pneumothorax (think, partially collapsed lung because of air in the thoracic cavity but, outside the lung) which she incurred during a prior training run.

That is one tough girl!

She received (along with Canadian figure skater Joannie Rochette) VANOC's Terry Fox Award Saturday.
A medal unlike any other

[Jeff Kleist]

Headaches and eye strain are a real risk with 3D not done right. That's because the eyes are being asked to do something unusual when tricked into seeing 3D while focused on a large, flat object (the movie screen). We look at real life objects with the focal plane always lining up with the convergence point of where the our two eyes are aimed. We can maintain focus on a stationary object (a movie screen) while allowing the convergence point to move in front and behind the screen. But we can put up with this only to certain limits.

About 4-6% of the population have differing focal planes that will cause them problems no matter how well you do it according to a friend that worked on the 3D ver of Polar Express

[Penton-Man]

Yes, there is a small percentage of people who suffer from some sort of binocular vision problem(s), no matter how well the feature film is produced by the filmmakers in regards to respect for potential vergence-accommodation conflict. Keep in mind that thanks to modern 3D cinema , such vision abnormalities are now gaining more public awareness than ever before by alerting those viewers with binocular vision problems to seek medical help who might have otherwise been clueless to the fact they were visually challenged by such a disability in the first place.

Some people may think about what I’ve above ^ and say,
“Hey… ignorance is bliss.”
Well, it aint that simple. For example, of the tiny percentage of people who do suffer from binocular vision problems, a common cause is “Convergence Insufficiency” which causes people to have trouble with doing daily tasks like reading a computer screen or a book because they experience eye strain. So, they naturally respond by avoiding the precipitating factor, i.e. putting the book down and not reading it, or avoiding working with their computer as often as possible. This potential learning/usage disability can have enormous implications as to future employment opportunities, etc. if it continues to go unrecognized.

I would say that for recent, modern day 3D motion pictures like Avatar, etc. that respect potential vergence-accomodation conflict, if the theatrical viewer experienced significant headache or especially, dizziness following the exhibition, then it wouldn’t be a bad idea at all for them to consult an optometrist or ophthalmologist to be worked up for a binocular vision problem such as Convergence Insufficiency (C.I.) because I’m told that C.I. can be successfully treated through office-based vision therapy.

Gotta go, as I’m back home now and a hockey game is about to begin and shown live(I think) on TV.

[DenonCI]

Well, the USA put up one hell of a fight but couldn't overcome the superior skilled Canadian team. Regardless, it was very entertaining and at least a North American team took home the gold

[sharkshark]

one word... "Booya."

[sharkshark]

Any thoughts?
http://gizmodo.com/5484148/we-miss-sony

[Penton-Man]

Nope.
I have little association with the consumer electronics division. My forte is in Culver City which unfortunately is suffering from the last of the layoffs this week due to the restructuring.

If you’re not familiar with what I’m referring to, try Goggling something like -”Sony Pictures Cuts Jobs” or “Sony Pictures Layoffs”.
I think one of the trades picked up the story in Jan. or, if they're well-connected, at the end of December.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

one word... "Booya."

One word…..”conflicted”, if you’re an Anaheim Ducks fan, like moi, meaning
three Canadians, two U.S.A. guys plus Slanne and Koivu from Finland.

That’s seven guys on the Anaheim Ducks squad who played in Vancouver on three different National teams bringing home seven medals of differing colors.

Shark, guess who won won and for what motion picture (hint: finished in B&W) the top prize at the 24th annual American Society of Cinematographers awards last Saturday.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DenonCI

Well, the USA put up one hell of a fight but couldn't overcome the superior skilled Canadian team. Regardless, it was very entertaining and at least a North American team took home the gold

I think our boys made us proud, despite not winning the Gold.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by 4K display

She received (along with Canadian figure skater Joannie Rochette) VANOC's Terry Fox Award Saturday.
A medal unlike any other

Nice link.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

It's the Ciliary muscle. To be honest, I had to look it up. Not many people besides eye doctors will know the answer by heart......

Correct on both counts.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by JimSD

On their Twitter acount the most specific they get is saying the Blu-ray will be available on the raceacrossthesky.com site in mid-March. Don't worry, I'll keep checking and let you know when it's out.

Please do.
I'm swimming upstream since taking vacation time for the Games.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Oliver K

Naah, I just wanted for you to be back for my big thanks to you

So here's a big thank you for putting in a word with Grover for me - much appreciated and definitely not forgotten

And while I am at it thanks for having this huuuuge thread here on Blu-ray.com! This is the only place on the web where we enthusiasts can regularly engage in conversation with a high level executive of a major studio so here is another one just for you. You deserve it and I think I can say that we are all happy you kept at it even after a short period of doubt last year

And now I will stop with the praise - too much is not good for the ego

You're welcome.
I hope everthing works out for your film festival.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Shark, guess who won won and for what motion picture (hint: finished in B&W) the top prize at the 24th annual American Society of Cinematographers awards last Saturday.

Ooh- intriguing! I've got a solid guess, but I'm not gonna Google it. Gonna wait to see how the thread plays out.

[Kris Deering]

The White Ribbon??