News: displays and their technologies

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Ah, right. The way you keep banging on about specs not being met made me think you had something else going on. I don't really see the point in you continually pointing it out because hardware manufacturers have always always ALWAYS relied on the sizzle to sell the steak. I was selling TVs with quantum dot backlights almost 10 years ago despite everything still being in 709, you know?

And yet aside from the marketing guff these things *are* actually useful to have in terms of HDR. Will every title need >1000 nits and >P3 space? No, but I'd say that those benchmarks are the minimum for a display for it to be anything like competent at showing HDR in the first place, otherwise you're at the mercy of the tone mapping trying to wrangle it and as everyone does it differently (said the bishop to the actress) you can have great displays hobbled by piss-poor mapping. And it's always nice to have more in the tank should there be any content that stretches further than those levels, like with many >1000-nit Warners and Sony UHDs as mentioned.

Colour in itself is harder to quantify but let's not ignore colour volume, for me that's a big component of what sets HDR apart from SDR and with WRGB OLED that volume just isn't there at higher brightness levels. So while having more colour in the display doesn't necessarily mean the content can show it, it's because it's being overdriven that people might actually get to see HDR's wide colour volume as it was meant to be seen.

The problem is that even to quantify color volume improvements you would need to have a setup like Vincent's with a Canon reference monitor to check how much of every input frame actually goes past BT.709 and, consequentially, very much above 120 nits brightness..

Based on what I saw from Vincent's videos, I don't think it's a significant amount on the majority of UHD discs/streams...

Too bad I don't have the money to find out...

[Geoff D]

But isn't it enough to know that you'd have a TV that could do it if called upon? You make it sound like no HDR content goes above 100 nits and 709 gamut, which is just a ridiculous position to take and as for Vincent he LOVES doing clickbait analysis videos on "fake HDR" but rarely acknowledges anything else, oddly enough. Not much content if any hits 10,000 nits with full 2020 gamut, true, but what the hell would anyone use to watch it anyway? Such a display literally does not exist. But there's plenty of stuff inbetween the two extremes - yes, really - and the nearer we can get to HDR's technical limits the less we have to rely on chicanery like tone mapping so again, you're not gonna convince me it's a bad thing even though every single piece of content isn't eyebrow-roastingly bright and colourful. What a weird crusade you're on.

Edit: though it makes sense now, you've never liked HDR so what better time to start doing an 'Emperor's New Clothes' thing with the display tech as well, revealing it to be a sham of a mockery of a mockery of a sham. Oh well.

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

But isn't it enough to know that you'd have a TV that could do it if called upon? You make it sound like no HDR content goes above 100 nits and 709 gamut, which is just a ridiculous position to take and as for Vincent he LOVES doing clickbait analysis videos on "fake HDR" but rarely acknowledges anything else, oddly enough. Not much content if any hits 10,000 nits with full 2020 gamut, true, but what the hell would anyone use to watch it anyway? Such a display literally does not exist. But there's plenty of stuff inbetween the two extremes - yes, really - and the nearer we can get to HDR's technical limits the less we have to rely on chicanery like tone mapping so again, you're not gonna convince me it's a bad thing even though every single piece of content isn't eyebrow-roastingly bright and colourful. What a weird crusade you're on.

Edit: though it makes sense now, you've never liked HDR so what better time to start doing an 'Emperor's New Clothes' thing with the display tech as well, revealing it to be a sham of a mockery of a mockery of a sham. Oh well.

I'm not even sure why you are trying to pick up a fight with me to be honest...

But I'm not falling for it...

[Geoff D]

We're all entitled to our opinions, but I couldn't quite grasp where yours is coming from.

[BrownianMotion]

"MisterXDTV" is the guy who claimed I was a Samsung shill (after explicitly denouncing their choice regarding the lack of accuracy in filmmaker mode) simply because I was praising Alienware's QD-OLED monitor and said that Sony's accurate colors + QD-OLED will be interesting. I tried to explain to him about the benefits of higher peak brightness and color volume, even though not every single scene will make use of either, but he just couldn't grasp it.

I don't think he means any harm. He is just painfully uninformed about all of this stuff and clearly just can't grasp how it works, even after it has been explained to him thousands of times. To be fair, not everyone's mind is made to understand the more technical side of these displays.

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

But isn't it enough to know that you'd have a TV that could do it if called upon? You make it sound like no HDR content goes above 100 nits and 709 gamut, which is just a ridiculous position to take and as for Vincent he LOVES doing clickbait analysis videos on "fake HDR" but rarely acknowledges anything else, oddly enough. Not much content if any hits 10,000 nits with full 2020 gamut, true, but what the hell would anyone use to watch it anyway? Such a display literally does not exist. But there's plenty of stuff inbetween the two extremes - yes, really - and the nearer we can get to HDR's technical limits the less we have to rely on chicanery like tone mapping so again, you're not gonna convince me it's a bad thing even though every single piece of content isn't eyebrow-roastingly bright and colourful. What a weird crusade you're on.

Edit: though it makes sense now, you've never liked HDR so what better time to start doing an 'Emperor's New Clothes' thing with the display tech as well, revealing it to be a sham of a mockery of a mockery of a sham. Oh well.

Watched Death On The Nile 4K UHD (Foxney) couple of days ago. It had some nice speculars, a sun on the horizon shot, and a gorgeous painterly quality that impressed me.

I was thinking if it had been graded by the Disnee folks, it would have been just another so-so like SDR affair, ala so much of the Disney+ streaming. (Notwithstanding the Dolby Vision badge on my tv, only The Mandalorian has seemed to have some content that looked like some speculars were present and the SDR 709 veil was kinda pierced.)

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by gkolb

Watched Death On The Nile 4K UHD (Foxney) couple of days ago. It had some nice speculars, a sun on the horizon shot, and a gorgeous painterly quality that impressed me.

I was thinking if it had been graded by the Disnee folks, it would have been just another so-so like SDR affair, ala so much of the Disney+ streaming. (Notwithstanding the Dolby Vision badge on my tv, only The Mandalorian has seemed to have some content that looked like some speculars were present and the SDR 709 veil was kinda pierced.)

Death on The Nile IS a Disney title...

Fox is dead

[lgans316]

I used to hate some of the Disney grades but I can now appreciate them for neither being too conservative nor throwing more nits.

Infinity War IMO is my top 10 HDR presentation.

I don't have the tools to measure nits but I am sure they been pushing beyond 1000 nits with Jungle Cruise and Black Widow.

[Penton-Man]

Friday follow-up to - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...p#post20126955
Just officially added to the Premier Seminars schedule for Sat. June 11th at CineGear -

Color Science and the Sony Venice –
Josh Pines , colorist from Ozark, Top Gun/Colorfront and Alexa Maza (Baselight)

[Penton-Man]

LG's New 4K OLED Star Wars Edition - YouTube

^ Congrats to Nandhu (https://slideplayer.com/slide/12718870/) of LG for bringing the TV to fruition, who if memory serves, I had the opportunity to first meet at 2015 HPA Tech Retreat - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...s#post10417065

[DTSBOY]

501 TV's at a nice mark-up no doubt - from the standard TV.


I gotta' say, it does look slick with the remote and the design on the back panel. Although not much use unless you've got a mirror behind it.

I'll take a guess at 4000 dollars. That's about 1500 more than the bog standard telly I believe.

[Penton-Man]

Custom LED show for -

TOP GUN MAVERICK | Burj Khalifa shines with TOM CRUISE - YouTube

[danny24]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

LG's New 4K OLED Star Wars Edition - YouTube

^ Congrats to Nandhu (https://slideplayer.com/slide/12718870/) of LG for bringing the TV to fruition, who if memory serves, I had the opportunity to first meet at 2015 HPA Tech Retreat - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...s#post10417065

Sweet, so tempting.

[Geoff D]

Hmmm. Getting seriously twitchy now the 75Z9J is down to £3600. If only there were more proper reviews and more than three fookin people who actually own one! Trawling through the AVS/AVF threads is utterly useless.

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Hmmm. Getting seriously twitchy now the 75Z9J is down to £3600. If only there were more proper reviews and more than three fookin people who actually own one! Trawling through the AVS/AVF threads is utterly useless.

Ah, so Geoff might go 8K in the near future.

[Waboman]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Hmmm. Getting seriously twitchy now the 75Z9J is down to £3600. If only there were more proper reviews and more than three fookin people who actually own one! Trawling through the AVS/AVF threads is utterly useless.

Put down the calamine lotion and scratch that twitch. Become fookin person number four. To quote the immortal Rob Schneider, you can do it! Probably have the salesman throw in some Guinness too. Or Newcastle. Mmm, I likes me some Newcastle. Come to think of it, you should start with a few pints and bring home the 85.

[Show spoiler]You can do it!

[Robert Zohn]

Sony's 75" Z9J is $3,999 in the US and moderate inventory levels with no new production coming. The 85" Z9J is $5,999 and for all Sony XR Bravia TVs we include a 10% Sony store credit.

I do love Sony's 2021 Z9J 8K HDR TV and yes the 2022 Z9K is a nice upgrade, but the very low closeout price on the excellent Z9J makes it a very compelling TV choice for anyone considering a premium TV in the 75" and the 85" class.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

Ah, so Geoff might go 8K in the near future.

The 8K part is completely incidental, just as 4K was when I bought my first 4K TV some 9 years ago. If I do buy it it's because it's supposedly the best LCD available at this point in time, as I'm not convinced by the X95K. The Z9J has the same amount of zones (400) but should have the superior dimming algorithm because that was held back for these 8K 'Master Series' sets. Whether it's as good as the ZD9's dimming is open for mass debate, but the old girl can't carry on forever. I'm not sure any consumer LCD will ever eclipse that set, but if the Z9J gets close then that'll do.

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The 8K part is completely incidental, just as 4K was when I bought my first 4K TV some 9 years ago. If I do buy it it's because it's supposedly the best LCD available at this point in time, as I'm not convinced by the X95K. The Z9J has the same amount of zones (400) but should have the superior dimming algorithm because that was held back for these 8K 'Master Series' sets. Whether it's as good as the ZD9's dimming is open for mass debate, but the old girl can't carry on forever. I'm not sure any consumer LCD will ever eclipse that set, but if the Z9J gets close then that'll do.

Heh, I know it's incidental, but it'd still be your first 8K TV either way, regardless of the reason.

As for the local dimming algorithm, that's an interesting point. I don't know if Sony really do intentionally downgrade the algorithm the lower down the range you go (that is, it's best in the Z9 series, worse in the X95 series and worse yet in the X90 series), but of course it wouldn't be all too shocking if they did! There are so many conflicting reports about the X95K at the moment though, it's hard to know what to think. And we'd need some direct comparisons of the Z9J and X95K to know for sure whether the former gets the better processing.

Either way, the Z9J seems a damn good TV. You get some crazy brightness, plus all that extra quality control that goes with the Master Series label, which is nice.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by danny24

Sweet, so tempting.

A bit more esoteric, but for more on another of LG’s displays, particularly with regards to ST 2110 and for those who couldn’t attend NAB 2022 (https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...e#post20159465), this -

ST2110 Interop Testbed NAB 2022 Demo - YouTube