"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Jeff Kleist]

Check out where the average bitrates are floating these days on reference transfers. low 20s to 30s

TalkStr8t is in KJack's thread talking quite a bit. The max bitrate has been bumped to 60mbps

Amir was an idiot with an agenda who didn't give a toss about Blu-ray, or even really HD DVD for that matter. The people like Talk, KJack, Penton, etc DO, and their coworkers who designed this standard are quality FIRST people.

Avatar was full of computer animation, but that doesn't mean all 3D movies are going to be 75% CG like that one was (the glowy colors probably didn't help the "game" factor either). They also won't run close to 3 hours

[Eternal_Sunshine]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Check out where the average bitrates are floating these days on reference transfers. low 20s to 30s

The concern is obviously with more demanding scenes and the necessary bitrate pikes.

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

TalkStr8t is in KJack's thread talking quite a bit. The max bitrate has been bumped to 60mbps

Thanks for that, I didn't know about the 3D/2D bitrate discussion over there. The bitrate bump is great and will probably make sure 2D on Blu-ray will not suffer. I'm very curious, though, if all legacy players will be able to handle those discs.

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Amir was an idiot with an agenda who didn't give a toss about Blu-ray, or even really HD DVD for that matter.

Oh, we couldn't agree more about that...

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

The people like Talk, KJack, Penton, etc DO, and their coworkers who designed this standard are quality FIRST people.

...or that.

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Avatar was full of computer animation, but that doesn't mean all 3D movies are going to be 75% CG like that one was (the glowy colors probably didn't help the "game" factor either). They also won't run close to 3 hours

Yeah, Avatar wasn't my cup of tea for a number of reasons; one man's eye candy is another man's kitsch, I guess.

Anyhow, I have seen other 3D presentations as well and they all had problems that took me out of the picture, mostly motion blur with fast moving objects, objects in the foreground being not really sharp, and the general dimness of the picture.

But as Blu-ray in my home theater is an absolutely better experience than in regular movie theaters round here, I will be sure to re-evaluate 3D when it arrives on Blu-ray.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Ian_S

In reading through catching up as I do from time to time, I thought I'd point you in the direction of one of our more entertainging members when it comes to Blu-ray transfers as a bit of an antidote to the much loved *science" members.

He is at least entertaining sometimes as opposed to just being always annoying. The search function should keep you amused for a while. Meet Pinch Paxton.

I’m not familiar with the fella and just quickly scanning thru the thread, I’m wondering, did he ever post a grain reduction algorithm (on any subsequent thread) after being challenged?
These things can actually be customized to specific film stocks for the most optimal effect (maintaining detail without producing secondary artifacts).
I would like to see even a starter algorithm for let’s say Vision 2 200T
7217, if he could oblige.
For all I know, the guy is the real deal as I don’t follow AVForums but, they seem like good all around folks to me.

I would actually be a little more interested to see their comments on the Blu-ray of The Damn United……………
https://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=3942, esp. if they have a thread on it where some old timers that lived through the experience expressed themselves regarding their recollections of the tumultuous events.

That was before my time and from my sparse reading of English soccer history back then, apparently Brain Clough was a passionate supporter of *the beautiful game* rather than thee, shall be say, overzealous physicality of English football back then. Sounds to me, like he was a man before his time.

On the opposite note, I do wish that some manager on some team in any country would openly criticize and strongly discourage (by fines if necessary) the continued *play acting* that goes on.........I'm talking about getting bumped and the player going down like he was shot with a 45 to the back of the head. It just cheapens the game.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Eternal_Sunshine

Yeah, Avatar wasn't my cup of tea for a number of reasons; one man's eye candy is another man's kitsch, I guess.

Well, I personally prefer the sci-fi story of District 9 but, admittedly I am somewhat biased.
I’m hoping that the exuberance exhibited during an early screening for Academy members https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...my#post2386710

carries on over to their nomination ballots.

B.T.W., that pristine looking aerial footage during the motion picture was captured with a Sony F950 in a helicopter, something which I don’t think has been given due credit in the online reviews for the motion picture by the reviewers when they are handing out the camera accolades.

[Penton-Man]

Hey, Jeff ……………………Got Snow?
I hope you don’t badly break your leg walking on any residual slippery stuff, Merry Christmas to you and everyone.

[Jeff Kleist]

Not as much as a few days ago, though there's a chance this storm arriving on Christmas could change over and dump on us again

Looks like you pulled off a Christmas miracle after all Penton

[DenonCI]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

On the opposite note, I do wish that some manager on some team in any country would openly criticize and strongly discourage (by fines if necessary) the continued *play acting* that goes on.........I'm talking about getting bumped and the player going down like he was shot with a 45 to the back of the head. It just cheapens the game.

I totally agree...it gets annoying.

[horseflesh]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

That was before my time and from my sparse reading of English soccer history back then, apparently Brain Clough was a passionate supporter of *the beautiful game* rather than thee, shall be say, overzealous physicality of English football back then. Sounds to me, like he was a man before his time.

Clough is one of my sporting heroes. Now all we get are generic bland dullards, he was a true character.
And indeed he was a believer in "beautiful football";

"If God had wanted us to play football in the clouds, he'd have put grass up there."

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

On the opposite note, I do wish that some manager on some team in any country would openly criticize and strongly discourage (by fines if necessary) the continued *play acting* that goes on.........I'm talking about getting bumped and the player going down like he was shot with a 45 to the back of the head. It just cheapens the game.

Yeah, it's shameful. I'm not surprised when some Americans comment that football (soccer) is full of nancy boys when you see some of the play-acting and diving that goes on. It hardly looks like a man's game any more sometimes.

[Bobby Henderson]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Not as much as a few days ago, though there's a chance this storm arriving on Christmas could change over and dump on us again.

Much of Oklahoma's roads and businesses were shut down by the blizzard that hit today. Luckily I had Christmas Eve off from work. I'm really glad I ran all my last minute errands last night. I've been stuck at home since then.

We had freezing rain and sleet over much of last night. Then the snow hit HARD about 9:00am and didn't let up until the middle of the afternoon. Sporadic power outages were happening all over the area. Winds have been gusting over 60mph and even knocking down trees and utility poles. Oklahoma City had a massive pile up on I-40. Much of I-44 from Oklahoma City down the Red River is closed.

On the bright side, we're going to have our first White Christmas since 1988. I've had time to watch a rented BD copy of District 9 and have been watching episodes of Band of Brothers on Blu-ray.

[phansson]

Hey Bobby,

Where do you live? I live in Fort Smith and we are getting hammered by your snow storm right now. About 3" in the past 2 hours.

[Bobby Henderson]

I live in the Lawton-Fort Sill area. The snow amounts in our area vary widely. Amounts between 5" and 15". Lots and lots of snow drifts. "Thundersnow" was happening through much of the area.

It's been over 20 years since this area has had a White Christmas, and only 5 times over the past 100 years.

[GGX]

So why does a standard-def trailer of 'Moon' play at the start of the District 9 Blu-ray!? Seriously, if you want to promote the movie on a Blu-ray Disc put the trailer on there in HIGH DEFINITION. Otherwise why bother?

[sharkshark]

Hey, kids, happy holidays and all that...

In the midst of lots and lots of big titles announced over the last few months, I missed out on this little gem:

Soul Power Blu-ray

Was really hoping for a two pack with "When We Were Kings", as I've yet to upgrade from my LD version.

This is an =amazing= music doc - I saw it projected in digital at TIFF, and am so very pleased to see Sony picked it up for BD treatment. I had even missed that it was already released in Region 2 - hard to keep track!

My long-ish review is here (http://filmfest.ca/2008tiff/03.html) for those that care about such things...

I saw it linked, accidentally, from the BD.com "It Might Get Loud" review (mine's from the day before I saw the Soul Power flick http://filmfest.ca/2008tiff/02.html).... IMGL is also certainly worth picking up, and I'm pleased it's also seeing the light of Day on Blu!

TIFF 2008 had some rediculously great music docs ("Every Little Step", "Sounds Like Teen Spirit", "Youssou N'Dour: I Bring What I Love") that are just now coming to the light of day...

[Penton-Man]

Wow, double-wow, I received a load of PM’s over the holiday from different lurking members imploring me to chime in ……………in the support of grain/film on the “LOST Season "5" really grainy” thread but alas, before I knew anything about the ‘controversy’, I see Super Mod Deci closed it down (good idea) because of some pre-holiday antsy-ness, so to speak.

So, for those who discreetly asked, like they say, better late than never, eh?
Here goes………….

Originally Posted by Abacab

Says everyone. I think someone said this thread (LOST Season "5") is frightening. I agree.
I used to read primarily hometheaterforum.com and avsforum.com but I came here hoping for more enlightened conversation…

Then by Gawd, you shall have it ! ! !
Albeit somewhat delayed…….. because of the Christmas holiday.
Continue reading this post, and I’ll try in my humble way to ‘enlighten’ you as to some things that were not mentioned in that now locked thread which you may find interesting.

P.S.
I must say, I haven’t heard any recent negative reports about HTF, so your comment is somewhat surprising to me. As far as AVS, well, if they could just eradicate the *screenshot scientists* (who lead everyone around like sheep) and esp. all those that support them, it would jump up a magnitude in online credibility.

It’s truly pathetic when these *scientists* can’t refrain from their veiled insults at least on Christmas Day –

Originally Posted by Kram sacul

But there's grain... and the source elements... original photography... diffusion... and Robert Harris said ...

^ I mean jeez, even if “Kram” isn’t Christian, you would think that he would at least respect the Holiday spirit on that day, i.e. ‘Peace on Earth and Good Will toward Men’.
Really poor form on your part, “Kram Sacul”.

Anyway, on to LOST Season "5" -

Originally Posted by wvl

I had been waiting for season 5 for a while and finally got it. I watched 5 episodes yesterday and noticed it was “grainy.” Just had replaced my old Samsung 52 inch (15,000:1 contrast) with another Samsung 52 inch (80,000:1 contrast) and noticed the graininess while watching season 5. Then I went back to watch the last episode from season 4 and noticed it too was very grainy. "Wonder why I didn't catch that before," a question I asked myself. Anyway, anyone else think season 5 or any other season is grainy too?

There was a lot of hype that went into this series. I remember watching some of the extras and there was mentioning of a lot of improvements were included in season 3 and more improvements coming to season 4 and 5. Hmm... makes me wonder, because --- they can add all the bells and whistles they want, but unless they get rid of the graininess, it ain't worth a “doodlely-squat” if the quality of the picture ain't there. Also, season 5 is in DTS-HD too; could have fooled me. Didn't sound like it to me. I even cleaned out the wax in my ears just to make sure (just kidding, I cleaned out the wax the night before).

Bottom line: I don't think Disney/Buena Vista has put too much effort to making the seasons in blu ray quality. Watching these disks makes me think that I am watching 1080 upscale from a DVD format version. Don't get me wrong, I love the story behind "LOST", but...

Final thoughts: There will be a lot of you out there that will disagree with me, but that’s my two cents worth. Just telling it like it is. By watching the latest season released, I expected to have my socks knocked off. I looked down at my feet; the socks were still there…

Just telling it like it is -
First, I would recommend that you have your new TV professionally calibrated by an excellent calibrator having some experience with Samsungs……..
http://accucalhd.com/

Following that, if you still are of the same personal opinion in regards to Season 5, and Blu-ray transparency to original source is of little or no importance to you, then just to be safe, I would avoid Door #1 and Door #2 here………
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...st#post2325097

Originally Posted by jordy475

ok great... does this have anything to do with the final output...Nope. Furthermore directors have monitors attached to their cameras that have the aspect ratio lines so they can see the "live" framing. Also I am sure reshoots are scheduled to fix problems. So the fact that they can't see dailys in an instant is bunk…

Well, I wouldn’t exactly put it quite that way, i.e. “bunk’.
Fact is jordy475, it is more a credit to the skill and competence of the cinematographers working under those conditions for the show to make it all happen with film…..meaning the dailies for Lost arrive 3 days later than what is typical for a shoot in L.A., for example.
That truly is of significance to the cinematographers when evaluating for things like texture of the imagery because often times 'temporary solutions' are insufficient for this sort of thing plus, the schedule is so tight (the D.P.s actually alternate on each episode for which one lenser shoots, while the other preps for the next episode, with a few days scheduled for 2nd unit simultaneous shooting) Reshoots are rare and like jerwin indicated – costly, with such a grueling schedule.

Regardless, they make do under the circumstances and like I said, it is a credit to the personnel behind the lenses to continue shooting with film.

Originally Posted by retablo

What are you even talking about? The discussion was about whether or not LOST was still shot on film, not whether or not they used video assist, which pretty much everyone uses these days.

I think jerwin was just innocently trying to expand/elaborate on “the trouble with relying exclusively on film” and in my mind, he was complementing the fortitude of the filmmakers of Lost and then that led to the one post by him concerning the video assist aspect.
retablo, the specific answer(s) to your question lies here……….
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...on#post2641217

F.Y.I., little known fact - the raw stock is actually shipped over in refrigerated containers (on a boat) to Hawaii rather than by air carrier (which would seem more reasonable) because of more than one past experience of the stuff being irradiated by TSA airport security despite meetings with the Transportation Security Administration about the matter.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by GGX

So why does a standard-def trailer of 'Moon' play at the start of the District 9 Blu-ray!? Seriously, if you want to promote the movie on a Blu-ray Disc put the trailer on there in HIGH DEFINITION. Otherwise why bother?

Duly noted.

[Penton-Man]

What’s for breakfast?
A roundtable with Directors Jim Cameron, Peter Jackson, Q.T., Kathryn Bigelow, Jason Reitman and Lee Daniels musing about their association (or lack there of) with the ‘Hollywood’ establishment -
http://video.hollywoodreporter.com/s...id=57139948001

with the next clip that automatically loads, offering tidbits from them discussing what is/was the hardest thing to shoot

and the last clip (my fave) being highlighted by Quentin’s thoughts on digital projection……with everyone else chuckling to themselves in regards to his future longevity as a Director in that regard. I suspect after watching this part, that the online accolades for Inglourious Basterds will take a decidedly upwards spike with the new knowledge (for some image capture fanboys) that Q.T. is an inflexible proponent of film for image acquisition as well as exhibition………..although, he doesn’t have a problem with the digital intermediate process for his motion pictures.

So, I guess that makes some Directors like C.N. (see my sig), Paul Thomas Anderson and M. Night Shyamalan even more of a ‘film purist’ than Quentin.

P.S.
C.N. means Chris Nolan (The Dark Knight)

[SquidPuppet]

If anything, LOST season 5 looks a smidge softer than the previous seasons. It makes a shift to the soft side at the end of disc 3 IIRC. I noticed it, but it wasnt jarring. Still a fantatastic product all around.

[Jeff Kleist]

Like I've said in the other thread. It looks like they've started doing some post-plastic surgery on the actors. 7 years since the pilot is a long time, especially when it's only supposed to be 3

The first 5 or so episodes definately look rougher than past seasons (the stuff in LA), but after that it's back in gear

I'm with Tarantino. Shoot film (preferably 70mm ) whenever possible. The benefits of DI definately outweigh the minuses, but as far as exhibition goes, I think it depends on the film's intended look. burning back out to film can often result in a desireable texture, but I'd definately rather watch Avatar or a Pixar flick on digital

[dobyblue]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

On the opposite note, I do wish that some manager on some team in any country would openly criticize and strongly discourage (by fines if necessary) the continued *play acting* that goes on.........I'm talking about getting bumped and the player going down like he was shot with a 45 to the back of the head. It just cheapens the game.

no doubt - we need more calls like this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJZVd4Zsv8Y

Shame when someone with so much skill is also affected by gravity so much and not much else.

[42041]

probably a silly question, but... for films shot digitally on 1080p cameras, is the digital intermediate done at the native resolution of the camera, or do they scale it up to 2K, and then scale it back down for the BD release?