"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[coolmilo]

Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin

Penton, I got Broken Trail in the mail today from Netflix. Hope to watch it over the next two nights.

I purchased Broken Trail at the Fry's 4th of July sale ($14 or $15). This is the bargain of the year for me. I loved the story and the acting was terrific. Bobby D. is just brilliant in this movie. I am so happy to have it as part of my collection. I guess I missed it on HBO...I need to stop with all the reality TV.

[Arecsa]

Penton, can you pay a visit to the suits at Warner and give them a spray for still continuing to announce titles without a lossless track? Risky Business earlier this month, and now Blow. This is just beyond ridiculous now.

[horseflesh]

Originally Posted by Arecsa

Penton, can you pay a visit to the suits at Warner and give them a spray for still continuing to announce titles without a lossless track? Risky Business earlier this month, and now Blow. This is just beyond ridiculous now.

I have to agree, this is getting beyond a joke now.
Warner basically ended the format "war" and now they are clearly the worst studio for Blu-ray releases.
I really see no excuse for them still to be announcing releases with no lossless audio (in particular Blow is of concern being a New Line title). Universal and Paramount have come in/back with all guns blazing on the audio front, leaving Warner trailing behind.

Wicky, I know you read Penton's thread, and many times on this issue you've said these things take time to work out of the production system. Well how long???
The excuse you offer on Warner's behalf is that they had been working with both Blu-ray and HD DVD in mind, well so have Universal & Paramount. How come they can get it so right, and Warner continue to screw us around.
Are they trying to piss people off, or are they just lazy???

I plan on buying Cuckoo's Nest & Adventures of Robin Hood because they're both masterpieces and Speed Racer when it's announced (laugh it up, but my 7 year old loved it and he's saving up his pocket money for it), but after that......

[SBrooks1]

I think Warner continuing to give us lossy audio is a much worse issue than the DNR issue. I can handle the look of Patton but not getting HD audio on major films like Blow is complete bullshit. Especially after I upgraded my receiver to handle all forms of Blu-ray HD audio. I really hope you Insiders can get to Warner and express our displeasure with them over this. I think you'll find a lot more Blu-ray hardcores that will be vocal over this issue than the DNR one. Something has got to change with Warner and we need you guys to help us!

[FourToedStatue]

Originally Posted by SBrooks1

I think Warner continuing to give us lossy audio is a much worse issue than the DNR issue. I can handle the look of Patton but not getting HD audio on major films like Blow is complete bullshit. Especially after I upgraded my receiver to handle all forms of Blu-ray HD audio. I really hope you Insiders can get to Warner and express our displeasure with them over this. I think you'll find a lot more Blu-ray hardcores that will be vocal over this issue than the DNR one. Something has got to change with Warner and we need you guys to help us!

And to think as a New Line film Blow would've likely received 7.1 DTS-MA

[Bullseye]

Could you imagine the LoTR trilogy with lossy audio

[Wilche]

Originally Posted by Bullseye

Could you imagine the LoTR trilogy with lossy audio

Yes.

[pellucidity]

Originally Posted by Wilche

Yes.

Don't give them ideas, I don't think there's any doubt that a WarnerVision release of LotR would have Return of the King, extended, on one disc.

It would probably be a BD50

[BluDomain]

Originally Posted by Bullseye

Could you imagine the LoTR trilogy with lossy audio

Yes, it is all in the marketing. COSTCO here had a Blu-ray War Classics Bundle (Patton / The Longest Day / Sand Pebbles) [Blu-ray]. They sold
out the first day. Probably would have sold out the first hour, but
people were slowed down reading about audio and DNR on various
forums.

You can still get the bundle on Amazon,.
http://www.amazon.com/Blu-ray-Classi...5881270&sr=1-1

[mel2]

it is a good thing dark city was finished before warner took over new line otherwise dark city would've had a low bitrate video and lossy encode. at least new line's last official title is a great one. i wish the take-over could've waited until new line put out blade 1&2 and lotr in 7.1 dts ma.

[saprano]

Oh damn i forgot warner took over new line.......... $#%

LOTR lossy track confirmed.

Does new line still have a say if they want use a lossless track on any movie?

[mhafner]

Originally Posted by SBrooks1

I think Warner continuing to give us lossy audio is a much worse issue than the DNR issue.!

I'm rather sure that 100 out of 100 people with normal vision can tell apart without problems Patton as is and without DNR on a display/screen of suitable size. I'm equally sure that very few if any ouf of 100 can tell two versions of the same soundtrack apart in a double blind test on high end equipment in a good room: Uncompressed 24 bit and DTS 1.5 Mbit/s 16 bit.

[Blu Titan]

Originally Posted by mhafner

I'm rather sure that 100 out of 100 people with normal vision can tell apart without problems Patton as is and without DNR on a display/screen of suitable size. I'm equally sure that very few if any ouf of 100 can tell two versions of the same soundtrack apart in a double blind test on high end equipment in a good room: Uncompressed 24 bit and DTS 1.5 Mbit/s 16 bit.

Warner is using Dolby Digital and not DTS, so I am not sure how your analogy applies to the discussion.

[Teazle]

Originally Posted by mhafner

I'm equally sure that very few if any ouf of 100 can tell two versions of the same soundtrack apart in a double blind test on high end equipment in a good room: Uncompressed 24 bit and DTS 1.5 Mbit/s 16 bit.

The two biggest giveaways are usually dynamic range and stereo imaging. ("Soundstage imaging" is I guess what it's called for multichannel.) As for what % of people can tell ... perhaps the person has to know what to listen for.

(Sorry to tread in your thread Penton.)

[Brain Sturgeon]

Originally Posted by mhafner

I'm rather sure that 100 out of 100 people with normal vision can tell apart without problems Patton as is and without DNR on a display/screen of suitable size. I'm equally sure that very few if any ouf of 100 can tell two versions of the same soundtrack apart in a double blind test on high end equipment in a good room: Uncompressed 24 bit and DTS 1.5 Mbit/s 16 bit.

Agree with the first. Strongly disagree with the second. Although most J6P probably wouldn't care as both sound "good", more than just a "very few" would be able to tell the difference. The differences in depth of bass are easy to pick out. I'd take that challenge any day of the week on a properly set up, high end system.

[cipher]

I posted these related thoughts in another thread but thought I'd copy them here for others to read...

The worst part of this for Warner is that they are continuing to put forward the idea, whether it's true or not, that they are both the cheapest studio and the one who cares the least about their HD customers. If this is an actual business plan, with the future intent to double-dip lossless versions, then I can only hope they end this policy soon so they prevent more damage to their goodwill.

At the very least they should come out an announce that they are comitted to lossless audio on all releases as of a certain date. I think it's time for their home video division to show some leadership rather than being continually embarrassed compared to the other studios, especially when one looks at their lackluster comittment to the format as a whole. Many people can have long memories about such things, regardless of the occasional spectacular release like Blade Runner.

[mhafner]

Originally Posted by Blu Titan

Warner is using Dolby Digital and not DTS, so I am not sure how your analogy applies to the discussion.

It applies to the general cry for lossless sound, whether compared to DTS or DD. DD can also go higher than 640 Kbit/s without being lossless. The difference between lossless and the less lossy versions >= 1 Mbit/s are minimal at best and you need professional quality equipment and rooms and very high quality sources to hear them. The former is very rarely installed in normal people's systems and the latter affects all older films.

[mhafner]

Originally Posted by Brain Sturgeon

Agree with the first. Strongly disagree with the second. Although most J6P probably wouldn't care as both sound "good", more than just a "very few" would be able to tell the difference. The differences in depth of bass are easy to pick out. I'd take that challenge any day of the week on a properly set up, high end system.

Why would depth of bass depend much on lossless compression? No soundstaging with bass anyway, no HF detail.

[Nathan P]

Originally Posted by Bullseye

Could you imagine the LoTR trilogy with lossy audio

i'm trying not to, having got both versions on dvd i'm dying to see how the film will look and sound on blu. To think it may only have the same soundtrack as dvd will put me off for sure. My only saving grace is that living in the UK Entertainment in Video handled the dvd distribution so they might use a different master or failing that an import that has a lossless english track from somewhere else in europe.

P-Man, Wicky , Max Please pass on our concerns to the powers that be, This is a trilogy that a lot of people want but in the current economic climate might not be able to afford the double dip

[WickyWoo]

There is no possible way that LOTR will ship with lossy audio

The brass at WB have gotten the message about lossless. The problem is that that message takes time to filter down, and they're not going to go back and re-do already completed product either. It's going to take a year, and maybe longer for that to shake out down the chain of command (much less than a year) and to get those discs waiting for a date out the door. Please keep in mind that there's about a 4 month minimum lead time on most Blu-rays, so anything you do today will not show on shelves until Novemberish at best, and probably later since Christmas product is done early.

IN THE MEANTIME. Do not automatically assume that titles, EVEN IF THE PRELIMINARY BOX ART SHOWS IT, have lossy audio. They have a lot of graphic designers who have been sticking "Dolby Digital" on everything for 10 years, and they do slip up occasionally (See Perfect Storm)