"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[mhafner]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Jeff, that’s for you and Bill Hunt to hammer home to WB (behind closed doors if you desire a successful outcome without antagonizing them ) on the other hand, I guess you could of course try the same futile internet campaign as this dude started back in 2003 with the same results…………….



and get typical responses like this from folks who work in the industry...


^
If people are unaware of who Martin Euredjian is, well for “educated, discerning enthusiasts” he’s the founder and CEO of his own company and I guess you could say sorta the ‘Charles Poynton of Video Display Systems’.........

http://aimediaserver4.com/studiodail...475&height=300

I met him in person. We got along fine...
Now, shall I post the other bit, the one where the insider speaks up?

[mhafner]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

For some historical perspective, this campaign involving the excessive sensitivity to the degree and even existence of self-determined “unnecessary” digital processing has been going on(at least that I’m aware of, from the forum for professional colorists) since autumn of 2003. Yes, that’s not a typo…………..2003 – where one list happy AVS member first posted his ‘concerns’, regarding which he didn’t personally like the grain reduction (or what he thought was dnr) on the release prints of several 35mm feature films in 2002/2003. Since that time, he has extended that campaign to the consumer HD software forums……..all to no avail.

Wow. I'm impressed. Little insignificant clueless me has enraged people for 5 years now and all to no avail. Maybe I should go into politics?
It's very easy to get rid of me. Release quality content. And if something is far from optimal don't insult my intelligence with excuse after excuse, polemics and propaganda. Just admit it is far from optimal and I move on.

[Jonty]

Originally Posted by cipher

I forgot about that one, Penton. I guess my biased mind had tried to wipe it from the memory banks!

Given the current worldwide economic situation, I imagine this might take longer than I would hope. However, it is a positive sign to see releases like the one you noted as well as other sport related releases such as the recent Celtics & Phillies championships.

Disappointing for me that they missed the Giants superbowl run in BD. Anyone know if the Champions League Final BD is region coded? I've never ordered a disc from the UK before...

[Monkey]

I just can't respect anybody that calls the majority of blu-ray/film lovers "ignorant apologists" for simply being willing to accept that a movie is worth buying or renting even though it isn't perfect in every still frame (their standards were quite the opposit when it came to HD DVD screen shot threads..very clearly they have double standards.). As well as constantly putting down the format. Perhaps these infamous people are held in high regard to some but I have no respect for them and their personal attacks on people who actually enjoy blu-ray. It is shame that they actually tell people to leave the thread who don't agree with them.

It has nothing to do with what he chose in the beginning but his current actions and attitude. Do you Xylon fans conveniently miss his color coded posts and pot shots that he takes towards blu, actually some were towards HD DVD supporters that he just labeled with the blu color for not agreeing with him, lol. Surprisingly the mods actually edited a few of his personal attacks lately.

If him and others would display an ounce of objectivity and stop with the personal attacks on those who don't agree with them that only .1% of blu-ray titles are worth owning once in a while maybe my opinions of Xylon and the other hyperbolists will gradually change over time. I used to defend him some back during the format war, silly me.

edit: anyways, this should have been in the off topic forum. It is just saddening to see that the format war still isn't over for some and they still hold a grudge against a format and it affects a persons ability to have objectivity. My HD DVD usage certainly would have continued to grow if blu-ray didn't make it.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by mhafner

I met him in person. We got along fine...
Now, shall I post the other bit, the one where the insider speaks up?

I’ll do it for you with some additional context.

Bob Blanks (a spokesperson) for Technique took his time to explain to you the policy of Technique (now called Technicolor DI) in regards to its clients.

A working colorist active in feature films and another, more known for his work on several hit television shows/series tried to explain to you that you have an extremely simplified view of the whole process.

And despite the additional contributions of other members (telecine operators) disagreeing with your conclusions, you continued to press forward like a stubborn mule.

Finally an anonymous poster (which in itself isn’t important) with an absolutely zero (0) posting history, and therefore zero (0) credibility (which IS important) claimed that after the filmmaker(s) leave the DI suite, the colorist in question was turning the dnr knob *up to eleven* which was the absolute largest piece of online b.s. I think I (or Martin) have ever read.

And as I said before in communication with you, if the colorist had indeed breached such a basic ethical trust with the DP and/or the Director, he never would have gotten work again in Hollywood at any company. It seems to me that in the interim since Seabiscuit and Kill Bill, that is certainly not the case, which now in retrospect proves how ridiculous that accusation was.

Folks, this is the colorist (wrongly accused in 2003) that we are referring to.
Check out all his credits since #34 (Seabiscuit).
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0620231/

He is, and continues to be one of the most successful, sought after young colorists in the business…….if you check the names of the Directors of some of those feature films on the list.

[Monkey]

Wow, very impressive resume

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by mhafner

Wow. I'm impressed. Little insignificant clueless me has enraged people for 5 years now and all to no avail. Maybe I should go into politics?
It's very easy to get rid of me. Release quality content. And if something is far from optimal don't insult my intelligence with excuse after excuse, polemics and propaganda. Just admit it is far from optimal and I move on.

Well, you can move on now because as I have stated to you before (and you have demonstrated in many posts in the past), you have a visceral objection to grain reduction or image enhancement no matter where it is applied in the production process. Just another recent example of your myopic view of filmmaking is this……

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1018

And when in the blu moon you do accept digital processing as a ‘necessary evil’ or perhaps an integral part of the creative intent of some of the most respected Directors and Cinematographers in the business, you think that the filters are too archaic or the technicians are too inept to do a better job, despite the fact that as far as I know, you have never worked in the telecine or DI suite or even as a compressionist before.

You want to prove that your skills and knowledge are better than everyone else in the business who works in the industry?
Apply for a job here, as they have openings……………………..
http://www.laserpacific.com/index.ph...-masteringnews

In the meantime,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8Tiz6INF7I&NR=1

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by patrick99

.......If AVS is so trivial, marginal, and irrelevant, why spend so much time attacking it?

Patrick, perhaps you should re-read this post that I made several pages back and concentrate on the end, in particular………

“So, what are they accomplishing in the end?”

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ng#post1329638

[patrick99]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Patrick, perhaps you should re-read this post that I made several pages back and concentrate on the end, in particular………

“So, what are they accomplishing in the end?”

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ng#post1329638

Perhaps I am misunderstanding, Penton, but your message seems to be: "If you can't say something nice about a BD release, don't say anything."

[Slec]

Originally Posted by patrick99

Perhaps I am misunderstanding, Penton, but your message seems to be: "If you can't say something nice about a BD release, don't say anything."

The key is in the phrasing

hyped and inaccurate observations

. Reading through some of those threads, there are some who comment on films they haven't even seen on the format yet. They then take the comments out to the Nth degree with supposition...without having actually viewed the source.

[Ben]

Originally Posted by patrick99

Perhaps I am misunderstanding, Penton, but your message seems to be: "If you can't say something nice about a BD release, don't say anything."

It seems to me that the vast majority of people who are creating, and I mean creating, these BD controversies are doing so with extremely limited information, a lack of understanding of the DI process and a clear bias against Blu-ray in general. Penton has shown, time and again, that experts with the answers to the questions at hand have been routinely ignored in favor of following the lead of a pissed-off fanboy with a screen-grab kit.

[Monkey]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Patrick, perhaps you should re-read this post that I made several pages back and concentrate on the end, in particular………

“So, what are they accomplishing in the end?”

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ng#post1329638

That's a great post.. Especially these two points, nails what the motivation is for those members. Sad that it is allowed and those that have spoken up are sometimes banned from specific threads even when they are the recepients of personal attacks from those that haven't even watched the movies in motion.. Who would have thought to judge a movie in motion

So, what are they accomplishing in the end?
1. They are dissuading some of their members who happen to pass by and read some of the hyped and inaccurate observations in their “PQ issue” threads from purchasing or even renting some fabulous Blu-ray titles.

2. Those that do in fact still rent or buy some of the Blu-ray movies that the screenshot scientists take issue with, still can’t totally enjoy their home media because they have been *pre-conditioned* that something is wrong with the movie so, they end up being unfulfilled in their home theater experience.

Speaking as a film enthusiast, that’s the true shame in what they are doing in the end.

---

It seems to me that the vast majority of people who are creating, and I mean creating, these BD controversies are doing so with extremely limited information, a lack of understanding of the DI process and a clear bias against Blu-ray in general. Penton has shown, time and again, that experts with the answers to the questions at hand have been routinely ignored in favor of following the lead of a pissed-off fanboy with a screen-grab kit.

That is exactly what has happened many times at AVS.. An insider states a fact and Xylon and crew tell them they are wrong and personally attack them.

[Monkey]

Originally Posted by WNind

I'm catching quite a whiff of hyperbole over here as well.

When somebody like Xylon sends out a message that a person is better off buying the DVD version of Wall E (sorry I don't have exact quotes as his posts have been edited and toned down...some by him, some by mods), ..... well maybe it should have been 1% instead of .1%, you are right. Same with Baraka when the DVD to blu-ray differences is huge, etc, etc.

[HeavyHitter]

My first eye opener to the screenshot science came from sheer personal experience (what a concept!). I ended up seeing the Mummy movies and U-571 on Blu-ray which were said to be disasters in Xylon's threads. Cherry picked screenshots including several shots zoomed at ridiculously high levels (another tactic typically used to denigrate the BD version) had the "usual suspects" claiming the Blu-ray versions were completely grain raped (which is not true) and that these releases were complete abominations. Several members claimed (or pretended) they were going to go right out and purchase HD DVD players as well as the HD DVD versions as this was the only way to see the "director's intent" upon viewing these movies. When I watched these BDs at home on my 60" 1080p display (and I do sit pretty close), I couldn't believe what I saw: great looking catalog titles with very good detail and tremendous lossless audio. What do you know.

[WNind]

Originally Posted by Monkey

When somebody like Xylon sends out a message that a person is better off buying the DVD version of Wall E (sorry I don't have exact quotes as his posts have been edited and toned down...some by him, some by mods), ..... well maybe it should have been 1% instead of .1%, you are right. Same with Baraka when the DVD to blu-ray differences is huge, etc, etc.

I have yo reply as I'm seeing so much animosity and untruths over here, so much unneeded resentment. I have seen no point on the Wall-E thread where he said anything like that.

The closest that he said is this

The DVD for this title is fine. Not unlike some live-action releases we have. The Blu-ray presentation of this Pixar movie is gorgeous. At least on my humble setup

Which is quite true. The DVD of Wall-E is, compared to other DVDs, good. Just like most Pixar discs tend to be.

This is how he started the thread

Reference PQ and AQ.

The best of the best among all the animated HD release. Every scene is just about perfect. The colors, the saturation, the depth of field is amazing. The bigger the viewing screen, the better the effect (well, duh!). The CGI animation technology is getting better and better. Excellent job. Keep it up PIXAR

Lots of demo scenes to show off your home theater setup. When Eve first landed on Earth is an excellent choice and also when they leave Earth . If you have the bass, then crank it up!

1080p PJ on a 120" screen using BD35 (Yes! finally I can recommend a stand alone player) 1080p/24hz bitreaming lossless sound. Volume knob at +5 with the house all to myself.

This is what its all about

Doesn't sound like he's recommending the DVD to me. If you look at the edit times on his post it hasn't been changed since he first posted the pictures.

[Monkey]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

My first eye opener to the screenshot science came from sheer personal experience (what a concept!). I ended up seeing the Mummy movies and U-571 on Blu-ray which were said to be disasters in Xylon's threads. Cherry picked screenshots including several shots zoomed at ridiculously high levels (another tactic typically used to denigrate the BD version) had the "usual suspects" claiming the Blu-ray versions were completely grain raped (which is not true) and that these releases were complete abominations. Several members claimed (or pretended) they were going to go right out and purchase HD DVD players as well as the HD DVD versions as this was the only way to see the "director's intent" upon viewing these movies. When I watched these BDs at home on my 60" 1080p display (and I do sit pretty close), I couldn't believe what I saw: great looking catalog titles with very good detail and tremendous lossless audio. What do you know.

Oh yes, I actually rented U-571 on blu-ray to compared with my HD DVD.. I doubt most could even tell the difference in motion. I still remember when Kram Sacul said there was no grain in Dark City, my copy certainly has grain. That's the problem when you only view cherry picked screen shots from Xylon versus actually watching the movie for yourself. I guess they help to set expectations so very low, so they serve a puprose

-----
No untruths from me. Like I said he's edited many of his posts and some have been flat out deleted in the Wall E thread just like others.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by WNind

I have yo reply as I'm seeing so much animosity and untruths over here, so much unneeded resentment. I have seen no point on the Wall-E thread where he said anything like that.

The closest that he said is this



Which is quite true. The DVD of Wall-E is, compared to other DVDs, good. Just like most Pixar discs tend to be.

This is how he started the thread



Doesn't sound like he's recommending the DVD to me. If you look at the edit times on his post it hasn't been changed since he first posted the pictures.

Funny how Xylon takes a swing at Blu-ray players though. While the BD35 is very good, there are also other standalones which could be recommended.

[saprano]

1080p PJ on a 120" screen using BD35 (Yes! finally I can recommend a stand alone player) 1080p/24hz bitreaming lossless sound. Volume knob at +5 with the house all to myself.

Who turns there volume knob to +5?

[patrick99]

Originally Posted by Ben

It seems to me that the vast majority of people who are creating, and I mean creating, these BD controversies are doing so with extremely limited information, a lack of understanding of the DI process and a clear bias against Blu-ray in general. Penton has shown, time and again, that experts with the answers to the questions at hand have been routinely ignored in favor of following the lead of a pissed-off fanboy with a screen-grab kit.

In my opinion it is inaccurate to say that these controversies would not exist if they were not promoted by people with "a clear bias against Blu-ray in general." It is indisputably true that Xylon, for example, was a very committed HD DVD partisan, but I do not think it is at all accurate to say that the "vast majority" of those who see PQ issues in certain BD releases are in that category.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by patrick99

Perhaps I am misunderstanding, Penton, but your message seems to be: "If you can't say something nice about a BD release, don't say anything."

Yes, you are misunderstanding.

Fact - there were some issues with playing some recently released James Bond Blu-rays on a Sony player.
Did I rebut anyone for bringing it to my attention?
On the contrary, I asked the poster to provide me with a concise report of the problem and I immediately (the next day) expedited a resolution by fast-tracking it to the top of the food chain.

What I don’t like are whiners who constantly gripe and scream incessantly about whatever minutia they can dream up next, based upon fictitious standards, because ………

1. They are often technically incorrect in their assumptions and conclusions.
2. They’re not going to get their way by trying to strong-arm content providers with futile internet campaigns.
3. In the meantime, they make life miserable for everyone else who passes by and happens to be reading their venomous accusations and exaggerations.

P.S.
And I’ll say that your persistent misunderstanding of what I say, (see one of your past posts on this thread) is bordering close to being antagonistic.