"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Bobby Henderson]

Being a professional graphic artist very knowledgeable in typography and type design I really have to say I have not been very impressed at all by how subtitles are treated on Blu-ray.

Yeah, the subtitles may be raster based. I hear they are anti-aliased, but what I see on screen doesn't indicate that so much. They still look crude as player generated subtitles on DVD. Jaggy, ridden with pixel stair steps. The kerning/tracking is often default crap.


Blu-ray can definitely do better than that, especially when more fully featured programming languages like Java are involved. I still don't understand why vector-based subtitles cannot be used. Isn't Java an advanced enough programming language to be able to accommodate vector-based objects, type, logos, etc.? The whole thing sounds like a licensing issue to me. Have someone in the Blu-ray Disc Association talk to a few guys at Linotype AG, Adobe or even Hoefler & Frere-Jones about licensing out a few key, highly legible typefaces for scalable display in Blu-ray Disc players. Really I see no legitimate excuse against using vector-based type for subtitles. Vector art is extremely efficient in terms of file size space -nowhere near as wasteful as raster-based art in terms of rendering type. Vector objects can be scaled larger or smaller and repositioned with absolutely no loss of image quality. Anyone who calls himself a graphic artist and designs logos originally in raster form is a freaking IDIOT. Vector art rules.

[jd213]

It would have been very nice if Java-based, user-adjustable subtitles had been mandatory for Blu-ray. That way everyone could be satisfied in regards to preferences like in-the-black-bars vs outside-the-black-bars, white vs yellow, transluscent vs opaque, big vs small, etc.

[Vincent Pereira]

Probably my last post ever on AVS Forum, read it before it gets deleted:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...7&postcount=37

Vincent

[Doctorossi]

So, Penton, I'll ignore the creepy bit where you implied that you scoured the AMPAS voting-member rolls, looking for my name, but I am curious about what you think (if you do) of the news in the video you posted.

Me, I think it'll be nice to see a little wider spread of winner speculation in the media, with perhaps less of a feeling of utter inevitability by the time the ceremony arrives and a *little* more opportunity for the occasional surprise result. However, 10 seems a bit unwieldy to me, and maybe too much for most casual observers to keep track of. Maybe 8 would be better. Doubling the number also gives a suggestion of arbitrariness and the impression that not much thought was given to the decision, although I'm quite sure that's far from the truth.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Vincent Pereira

Probably my last post ever on AVS Forum, read it before it gets deleted:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...7&postcount=37

Hard to blame you too much for that one.

[awx]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Thanks Deci.
All I would like to add is that for those opting for option #1 (i.e. subs inside the active picture all the time), please be aware that it is possible that some imagery might be obscured on the BD, that one would have readily seen at the theatrical presentation, when directly compared with each other.

Or vice versa, for that matter……… meaning, it is still possible that something might be obscured on the theatrical that the BD edition with subtitles would still reveal even by their positioning inside the active picture.

The positioning within the active picture may not be exactly identical between the theatrical presentation and the Blu-ray edition, so it is possible that something will be covered up in one as compared to the other.

I really wish both types of subs were included on the disc. Hell, also throw in small size text versions too. Subs take up so little room on the disc, just make everyone happy.

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by Vincent Pereira

Probably my last post ever on AVS Forum, read it before it gets deleted:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...7&postcount=37

Vincent

oh, dear... either a broken link or it got deleted already... OK, I'll bite, what did you write?

(PM if you'd rather)

Penton, not decided on an Island yet - I've doved/diven/dived Jamaica, Cozumel, Turks, and am looking for another venue, this time a week liveaboard. Leaning sofar to US-VI in a trimaran, but we'll see.

[Jeff Kleist]

Probably my last post ever on AVS Forum, read it before it gets deleted:

Too late

[qutoe]

I still don't understand why vector-based subtitles cannot be used. Isn't Java an advanced enough programming language to be able to accommodate vector-based objects, type, logos, etc.? The whole thing sounds like a licensing issue to me.

It's a "quality of life" issue, in that the ability of players to render them properly is too variable, especially when we start getting into the cheap players come next year[/quote]

Downloadable subs and/or including languages outside your area might be licensing issues. It's a "quality of life" issue, in that the ability of players to render them properly is too variable, especially when we start getting into the cheap players come next year

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by Bobby Henderson

Vector objects can be scaled larger or smaller and repositioned with absolutely no loss of image quality.

And that is exactly what we need.

Nobody can tell me that somebody who sits close to 1 screen width away needs subtitles of the same size as somebody who sits 3 screen widths away - the subs are so big on some discs that I have to wonder why somebody would want to watch a Blu-Ray at all if he needs subs that are so big.

So please make it movable AND scalable - that would go a long way and probably satisfy 99.5% of all users.

[Eternal_Sunshine]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=104430

Thanks for making SPHE sensitive to the subs issue, Penton!

And thanks for setting up the poll so quickly, Deci!

[Doctorossi]

Penton, it's been a long time now since Das Boot dropped off the release radar (sonar?). Back in the day when it was first announced (or "pre-announced" or whatever they call it), I was never able to find out which version(s) were in production. Do you have any idea what the plans are at this point?

I'm primarily interested in the "Director's Cut" version, but I must admit that I would happily bite at a definitive release containing all three cuts, even if it meant, say, a $60 price tag.

[Dennis M]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Penton, it's been a long time now since Das Boot dropped off the release radar (sonar?). Back in the day when it was first announced (or "pre-announced" or whatever they call it), I was never able to find out which version(s) were in production. Do you have any idea what the plans are at this point?

I'm primarily interested in the "Director's Cut" version, but I must admit that I would happily bite at a definitive release containing all three cuts, even if it meant, say, a $60 price tag.

+1

Of like mind on this one.

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

I'm not looking for sympathy, Penton; I'm looking for action.

The Frenchman is fastest on day one of practice?????

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by SquidPuppet

The Frenchman is fastest on day one of practice?????

There's an optimistic segue!

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

However, 10 seems a bit unwieldy to me, and maybe too much for most casual observers to keep track of. Maybe 8 would be better. Doubling the number also gives a suggestion of arbitrariness and the impression that not much thought was given to the decision, although I'm quite sure that's far from the truth.

Dude! You think way toooo much.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by SquidPuppet

Dude! You think way toooo much.

I don't think the problem is how much I'm thinking, so much as it's what I'm thinking about.

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

I don't think the problem is how much I'm thinking, so much as it's what I'm thinking about.

My comment was poorly worded. I should have said, Dude! You are OVERthinking it.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by SquidPuppet

The Frenchman is fastest on day one of practice?????

That do cause a double-take, don't it? This post is mine.

[SquidPuppet]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

That do cause a double-take, don't it? This post is mine.

Indeed. But the three amigos are still within a bilisecond of each other, and thats what counts. Pretty sure it will be a good show. All three want it equally, Jorge just wont say it out loud.

[horseflesh]

Penton, my copy of Dr Strangelove arrived this morning, and I'll hopefully get a chance to watch it in the next week or so. In the meantime can you give my thanks to the artwork/packaging people at SPHE for making Ireland the only country visible in its entirity on the front cover.

I'm one of the few who actually likes the digibooks and by remarkable coincidence DS is now sitting proudly beside my Dirty Harry digibook
One thing though; although it doesn't affect me because I'm not in North America, if someone ever needed to use the proof of purchase they'd have to butcher the digibook.
Could it not be placed in a more discreet position, somewhere in the booklet maybe?