"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[chris0]

Originally Posted by DenonCI

As a test I pulled out my old copy on DVD (the DTS version) and watched the same scene. The lipsynch issue is there as well (less pronounced), although the picture is so damn fuzzy you can't see the lips clearly enough to tell for sure.

Checking the DVD for the same problem was the first thing that came to my mind. It amazes me how quick some people are to wail and demand justice when stories pop up on the internet about problems with a release, especially when it happens before most have even seen it. I think perhaps some of these people are only happy being unhappy.

[neo_reloaded]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Sounds to me like an ADR problem then, part of the movie

I think people are doing extra careful inspection because supposedly the UK release has significant lip sync problems that start midway through the movie and carry on all the way through the end (I have not seen this myself - but there is a thread in the UK section of the forum here with multiple people reporting it).

It sounds like the US version is fine - all those who have posted about experiencing it with the US version state that it's just for a minute or so, and now there is some testimony about this particular minute being "iffy" on the DVD as well. I will watch for myself tomorrow or so, but this seems like a reasonable explanation given the currently available information.

[Slec]

Can someone tell explain what ADR is? From the dialogue it sounds like something to do with dubbing but I've never seen this term before

thanks

[Q?]

Originally Posted by Slec

Can someone tell explain what ADR is? From the dialogue it sounds like something to do with dubbing but I've never seen this term before

thanks

This should explain it nicely.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubbing..._.2F_post-sync

[Tok]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Sounds to me like an ADR problem then, part of the movie

I don't think its an ADR issue. The DVD did not have this issue.

I agree hounding maybe too strong a term, but I see a pattern with high profile catalog titles. Now I know that sometimes source elements are an issue, but again why are these issues most prevalent on high demand catalog titles. Call me a conspiracy nut, but sometimes I wonder if less than stellar product is intentionally delivered so the studios can sell it two or three times over the life of a format.

The more probable excuse is that these projects are adhering to tight schedules so errors that could easily be fixed are passed over in the name of meeting the streetdate.

[Eternal_Sunshine]

Penton, maybe I haven't been paying attention, but I thought it was SOP for Sony to release all new movies on DVD and Blu-ray? I was just a little disappointed that "Defendor" was only released on DVD...

[Tok]

Originally Posted by neo_reloaded

I think people are doing extra careful inspection because supposedly the UK release has significant lip sync problems that start midway through the movie and carry on all the way through the end (I have not seen this myself - but there is a thread in the UK section of the forum here with multiple people reporting it).

It sounds like the US version is fine - all those who have posted about experiencing it with the US version state that it's just for a minute or so, and now there is some testimony about this particular minute being "iffy" on the DVD as well. I will watch for myself tomorrow or so, but this seems like a reasonable explanation given the currently available information.

I do have a hard time believing that the UK disc is using different encode file for the main feature. I would not be surprised if these issues also start to get reported by buyers of the disc in the US.

[Tok]

Originally Posted by DenonCI

Why are some having it and some not? Is it hardware dependent?

I would not be surprised if the AV sync delay setting in their playback equipment is contributing/masking to some extent based on their setting.

We usually have a tolerance for sync issues, but once the threshold is exceeded it is very noticeable.

[Jeff Kleist]

It is absolutely not the case that errors like syc issues are overlooked for future dipping

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...toryCollection

I hope the managed copy and hardware people are paying attention to this, might as well kill two birds with one stone

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by CraigW

I don't think its an ADR issue. The DVD did not have this issue.

Others have said the DVD did, just harder to see.

Call me a conspiracy nut, but sometimes I wonder if less than stellar product is intentionally delivered so the studios can sell it two or three times over the life of a format.

[SpaceDog]

Originally Posted by CraigW

Call me a conspiracy nut, but sometimes I wonder if less than stellar product is intentionally delivered so the studios can sell it two or three times over the life of a format.

While this may happen in terms of witholding special features that will make a double dip attractive, I don't think you'll typically see it in a way that may encourage people to demand replacements for an "error".

I'm leaning towards ADR on this one.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Monkey

We already know what the screenshot "scientist/engineers" (Kram, Xylon, Eric.exe) will say based on history of anything out of focus.. "look at all the DNR, this is a total disaster" "Nothing worth praise".

Normally, I would agree with you but, since I’ve already talked about specific cinematographic details regarding Road to Perdition on the last page, I doubt that they would be so foolish to do so in this case because many unbiased enthusiasts read this thread daily.

There’ s at least one trombone shot in “Road” (the scene with Harlen Maguire in the alley also comes to mind) although, which makes me shudder to think about the upcoming inevitable DNR screenshot proclamations for Vertigo and Jaws, if/when they ever do make it to Blu-ray. So, I’d better also mention those two titles now while I’m at it.

P.S.
Hold on. After I've caught up with today's postings, let me find a pertinent link for you guys to explain what I’m referring to above.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Eternal_Sunshine

Penton, maybe I haven't been paying attention, but I thought it was SOP for Sony to release all new movies on DVD and Blu-ray? I was just a little disappointed that "Defendor" was only released on DVD...

Not always.

[Penton-Man]

Good to see you guys are collectively working toward a solution with this SPR thing.

[Bobby Henderson]

I haven't noticed the lip sync issue before (I don't have the SPR BD yet, but I do own the DTS version of the DVD). The problem could indeed be there because of a mis-timed ADR dub. I've seen plenty of movies with strange ADR issues -usually when one actor's lines are dubbed over by someone else.

Here's another issue to consider: audio tape. I don't know if all of the production audio for Saving Private Ryan was recorded digitally. A great deal of audio source elements (music, ADR, effects, etc.) for many movies exist on magnetic tape. Some of that stuff is of really high quality. 2" tape run at 30" per second using Dolby SR can yield greater headroom than 20-bit digital audio and is certainly superior to 16-bit CD quality audio. And that tape source can be digitized at really high sample rates (96kHz, 192kHz).

One bad thing about analog audio tape is it can vary slightly in playback speed. Stretching, "tape sweat" and issues with the reel to reel playback hardware can cause little slips to take place.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Normally, I would agree with you but, since I’ve already talked about specific cinematographic details regarding Road to Perdition on the last page, I doubt that they would be so foolish to do so in this case because many unbiased enthusiasts read this thread daily.

There’ s at least one trombone shot in “Road” (the scene with Harlen Maguire in the alley also comes to mind) although, which makes me shudder to think about the upcoming inevitable DNR screenshot proclamations for Vertigo and Jaws, if/when they ever do make it to Blu-ray. So, I’d better also mention those two titles now while I’m at it.

P.S.
Hold on. After I've caught up with today's postings, let me find a pertinent link for you guys to explain what I’m referring to above.

^
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A4075030

[Penton-Man]

For your consideration…
https://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=4506

^ The film source was scanned at 4k and the quality of the master looked very good, actually better than I expected. In short, I was impressed with the outcome which is why I’m bringing this title to people’s attention. Might I humbly recommend everyone purchase Jason and the Argonauts because this Blu-ray movie represents quality work on an important film that should find its way into every cinephile's collection.

[Jeff Kleist]

Here's another issue to consider: audio tape. I don't know if all of the production audio for Saving Private Ryan was recorded digitally. A great deal of audio source elements (music, ADR, effects, etc.) for many movies exist on magnetic tape. Some of that stuff is of really high quality. 2" tape run at 30" per second using Dolby SR can yield greater headroom than 20-bit digital audio and is certainly superior to 16-bit CD quality audio. And that tape source can be digitized at really high sample rates (96kHz, 192kHz).

by that time nearly everything was digital. Minidisc for example never caught on with the mainstream, but sound guys loved it because it's pocket size and high quality. If it'd been made 5 years earlier then thru mightve still been running tape

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

by that time nearly everything was digital. Minidisc for example never caught on with the mainstream, but sound guys loved it because it's pocket size and high quality. If it'd been made 5 years earlier then thru mightve still been running tape

Well, the postproduction sound was done at Skywalker and they have a gigantic sound library, some sound FX can be heard in Forrest Gump, which was done in 1994, so not quite everything was digital.

Heck, it took a while for recordists to record in true stereo, rather than remix mono captured material.

[kpkelley]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

There’ s at least one trombone shot in “Road” (the scene with Harlen Maguire in the alley also comes to mind) although, which makes me shudder to think about the upcoming inevitable DNR screenshot proclamations for Vertigo and Jaws, if/when they ever do make it to Blu-ray. So, I’d better also mention those two titles now while I’m at it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A4075030

I always wondered what that was called. Thanks P-man.

BTW, Peter Jackson used the shot in LOTR when Frodo and friends find themselves back on the road after falling down the hill when fleeing the farm.