"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Oliver K]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I’ll admit that ever since that videoclip where Jim described the Aliens remastering, that he and Skip went in and “completely denoised and degrained it” and “they got rid of all the grain”, it has inspired me to have another look-see at what we have in-house, which many consider to be the best de-grainer tool (definitely, the most expensive) on the market so that, I’m fully prepared the next time a big-name Director comes by for corrections.

Today, when I look at the processing tree from the main interface software, there are a couple of tiny little filter boxes, namely -Temporal Smooth and Motion Estimation Compensation, with a subset of even more filter boxes, namely – Power Spatial grain, Basic Spatial grain, Basic Temporal, Dynamic Temporal, and the very last box in the row is the ever so reliable Smart Sharpen Filter. That’s a lot of tiny boxes to decide to select or unselect!

I figures that if you want to completely de-grain and get rid of all the grain from the material, you’ve probably got to check all dem tiny boxes…..at least all but the Smart Sharpen box (better save that for later…..you know, just in case ) but, the problem I’m having now is that a lower set of parameters pop up and there is no stinkin DNR knob to adjust the settings!

What’s a man to do in order to adjust the attenuation, spatial size and temporal size settings without any DNR knob? And not only that, to further confuse me, they’ve got red, green, blue and even white color DNR channels to adjust the filters…..with no DNR knob to turn…..not even a ‘DVNR’ knob to turn. What’s worse……is that now I can’t find the manual and I think that rat in the suite either hid it again or else ate it.

One interesting aside to this whole situation is that if this dnr solution for the Blu-ray of Aliens indeed works out in a visually appealing fashion for the internet PQ warriors, I think there are going to be a whole lot of folks on the internet who will be compelled to change their signatures regarding dnr, or else they’re going to look a little like hypocrites.

Madshi, one thing for sure is that if the screencap folks have any HD broadcast captures from Aliens to do a Blu-ray vs HDTV comparison like with Fellowship of the Ring, that thread may just turn out to be the hottest thing on the internet since sliced bread or the American pick-up truck. Suddenly, I find myself rather envious of you, eric and xylon over there at AVS.

You have some scary thoughts this morning

For now I will wait to see if Cameron removed all the grain on the Aliens DC and if indeed there will be a theatrical cut that is not treated in this fashion.

As for Sony: Keep doing what you've been doing until now, there are many who appreciate it. Imo you have the most consistent output in the industry, all you need is to put out a few more classics

And as for directors turning their movies into something else with your awe-inspiring software: Let them have a go at it as long as we also get a theatrical version

[MerrickG]

Originally Posted by Oliver K

For now I will wait to see if Cameron removed all the grain on the Aliens DC and if indeed there will be a theatrical cut that is not treated in this fashion.

Theatrical = DC minus a few scenes.

Whatever was done to the DC will show up in the theatrical since there is no way they are going to compress two different cuts of a 2 and 2.5 hour film.

It will be done utilizing seamless branching.

[horseflesh]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

In that regard, my question to you and others is that when Taxi Driver does make a Blu-ray appearance, if the marketing folks were to jack up the price of the package and include a model replica of a New York City cab such as something like this-
http://www.motormint.com/index.asp?P...ROD&ProdID=139

(but, of course, with the appropriate vintage year from the mid-seventies listed)….would you guys fork over the extra $$ for such a plastic collectible and the disc…..if say, the studio did a limited run of several thousand toy cars and the disc popped out from the undercarriage of the car?

I really think I can make this thing work, if there’s enough demand out there. I guess the question comes down to….are there as many car geeks out there in the blogosphere as there are sci-fi geeks.

I don't have a "problem" with something like that (as long as it doesn't look cheap & nasty), but it just wouldn't be practical for me from a storage point of view. A car wouldn't fit anywhere on my shelves, and I don't really have anywhere to display it. And then what would happen sooner rather than later is that one of my kids would spot it and naturally enough use it as a toy car.
I understand of course that you're looking to increase revenue on a release that won't exactly sell a million copies and I don't think anyone will begrudge you that, but personally I'd prefer a nice classy digibook.
Or work a deal with Taschen and include this is the package;
Taschen Taxi Driver

http://www.taschen.com/




Edit;
I know you're not always so keen on talking about this particular future release, but I would buy a special/collector's edition of LoA, but only if there was something very close in size to a normal-sized Blu-ray case that I could remove and place on my shelf.
And if it didn't cost way too much obviously, but there is plenty of scope (pardon the pun) for some genuinely worthy extras. A nice classy hardback photo book would be a no-brainer, and relatively cheap for you to include for a nice additional return.
But hey, I did buy the big Seinfeld complete series set with the coffee table book so I can break my own rules
And now that it's on my mind, I'm expecting something akin to "no comment", but have there been any more thoughts on the 4:3/16:9 issue?

[mark antony]

Re the Taschen link, why didn't I know there was a "big book of breasts"!!!

M

[kpkelley]

P-Man,

The Bits posted this interview with Grover Crisp about the restoration of Bridge on the River Kwai and the Plaza Classic Film Festival. It's getting me even more excited.

[horseflesh]

Originally Posted by mark antony

Re the Taschen link, why didn't I know there was a "big book of breasts"!!!

M

No idea why my link didn't work, you'll find the Taxi Driver book under Films, and then Upcoming Titles.

[bobuk12]

Hey Penton,

I wanted to say I really appreciate the time you take to keep everyone in the know quick question...

I'm beginning to believe more and more I'm one of the 15 people in the world who actually liked M. Night's Last Airbender. Any word if he got approval to make the sequel and continue the planned trilogy? I know it got raped by ratings, but financially it seems that Airbender did fairly strong....I'm a huge Night fan and would love to see him continue. Thanks!

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by horseflesh

Or work a deal with Taschen and include this is the package;
Taschen Taxi Driver

Oh my god, I keep avoiding the Taschen site and then somebody shows yet another must have.

Here, leaf through:
http://www.taschen.com/lookinside/06343/index.htm

Sigh...

Alas, as much as I love Taxi Driver, the model car wouldn't do much for me. Maybe a Bickle Bobble head? "You talking to me?" (nodding "yes...yes...yes... yes...")

[sharkshark]

Oh, that's interesting:

Today's screening may be the first time "River Kwai" will be shown in its original 2:55:1 aspect ratio, or the height-to-width ratio of the image, in which it was shot. It was filmed with Cinema Scope wide-screen lenses, but the ratio was "cropped and changed to 2:35:1 shortly after CinemaScope started," Crisp said. No prints have been found in the 2:55 ratio, he said.

So, is it OK to modify aspect from the (second-run) theatrical presentation, even if you're making it wider and back to the original? (he asked, provocatively... )

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by madshi

There is a Japan 20Mbps MPEG2 Aliens HD broadcast, but the image quality is rather bad. There's lots of grain, but you mostly only see it in motion, because in still pictures it's so mushy that it almost doesn't look like grain. Not sure if it's very bad DNR or if the scan is so bad or if the original film is at fault.

I guess that the Blu-Ray will probably look cleaner and sharper and probably "better" overall. But still, I think that getting rid of *all* the grain can not be the way to go for a movie like Aliens. Even if there was a way to get rid of all the grain without losing any detail, I'd still be against it. That's almost like getting totally rid of all the traffic noise in a busy street scene, so that the dialog can be heard nice and clean!

lol, it would have been a helluva screenshot comparison thread!
I think you just posted something for which a lot of pro-Aliens bloggers just experienced a collective sigh of relief.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by mark antony

....Given Mr Cameron's ABSOLUTE knowledge on most film related technical matters (most tech's on his films think he knows how to do their job better than they do) and that Skip has been mastering film for home use for longer than I can recall, I think we will be in for a treat.

There will be nitpickers and neighsayers, but TBH there will be more people that would have complained that Aliens in HD was a grainy mess, as it (and it's sisters) is a film that appeals to all sorts of demographics and may well even shift a few players.

An open mind may be called for and the possibility of whether this is another revolution in home video presentation....

I don’t believe that Skip’s degrain software is really significantly superior to that of IVC’s used for the 2010 Predator Blu-ray. I guess we’ll have to wait for the Blu-ray incarnation to see how far exactly Jim decided to go.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Oliver K

You have some scary thoughts this morning

For now I will wait to see if Cameron removed all the grain on the Aliens DC and if indeed there will be a theatrical cut that is not treated in this fashion.

As for Sony: Keep doing what you've been doing until now, there are many who appreciate it. Imo you have the most consistent output in the industry, all you need is to put out a few more classics

And as for directors turning their movies into something else with your awe-inspiring software: Let them have a go at it as long as we also get a theatrical version

Not to worry , I still haven’t seen one degrain solution that doesn’t soften or smear a little as a trade-off, despite the public marketing claims and ‘demos’. Heck, that’s why a lot of them include that convenient sharpen box in the same menu selections as those of all the dnr parameter settings……not to mention, a readily available synthetic re-grain function in the same menu. The most honest companies will concede to you that their de-grain solution ‘still maintains a lot of detail’.

You always end up losing some resolution, ultimately,it comes down to whether the induced softness is better than having more ‘texture’……. of which some home theater enthusiasts may find enriching…..and others annoying, depending on their taste for grain and their philosophy towards faithfulness to the original theatrical presentation.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by horseflesh

....but personally I'd prefer a nice classy digibook.
Or work a deal with Taschen and include this is the package;
Taschen Taxi Driver

http://www.taschen.com/

You guys are going to get me into trouble with Human Resources again.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by bobuk12

Hey Penton,

I wanted to say I really appreciate the time you take to keep everyone in the know quick question...

I'm beginning to believe more and more I'm one of the 15 people in the world who actually liked M. Night's Last Airbender. Any word if he got approval to make the sequel and continue the planned trilogy?

Sorry, not for me to say.
Who knows?....he may leak something here –
http://www.3d-summit.com/

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

So, is it OK to modify aspect from the (second-run) theatrical presentation, even if you're making it wider and back to the original? (he asked, provocatively... )

I provocatively ask you, does this comment bother you….."This is our passion here, this kind of work, and it's great to put out Blu-Rays and all of that," he said, "but actually restoring it and seeing it in a big theater with an audience, the way it should be, is like the ultimate performance."

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I provocatively ask you, does this comment bother you….."This is our passion here, this kind of work, and it's great to put out Blu-Rays and all of that," he said, "but actually restoring it and seeing it in a big theater with an audience, the way it should be, is like the ultimate performance."

Yeah, sounds about right.

[Taffy]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

...One interesting aside to this whole situation is that if this dnr solution for the Blu-ray of Aliens indeed works out in a visually appealing fashion for the internet PQ warriors, I think there are going to be a whole lot of folks on the internet who will be compelled to change their signatures regarding dnr, or else they’re going to look a little like hypocrites.

Madshi, one thing for sure is that if the screencap folks have any HD broadcast captures from Aliens to do a Blu-ray vs HDTV comparison like with Fellowship of the Ring, that thread may just turn out to be the hottest thing on the internet since sliced bread or the American pick-up truck. Suddenly, I find myself rather envious of you, eric and xylon over there at AVS.

I watched my ENCOR HD channel recording of ALIENS last night on the big screen HT. Impressive...most impressive indeed...and not a hint of those nasty things that posters like to talk about. Plenty of detail on most scenes as Mr Cameron shot this movie much like TV directors shoot these days...plenty of facial close ups with lots of wrinkles and skin dimples being displayed. It's noticeably sharper than the DVD...though the DVD upconverted to 1080i is not that hard on the eyes...either.

I think screen grabs of this HD telecast (if used by SG reviewers) are going to hold their own quite well against the Blu ray release, imo, and that's not going to sit well with a lot of folks.

I would love to see on line reviewers incorporate comparisons between HDTV telecasts and their Blu ray counterparts as part of the Blu ray review process. DVD Vs BR comparisons are useless (of course the BR PQ is better) as well as comparisons to how the movie looked when it premiered....duhhhhh, who can remember that far back or comparisons to film negatives. I mean really...who gets to see those regularly. Anyway...just getting some thoughts off my chest.

[Penton-Man]

Bill, I’m told you’re a football fan (according to Jeff), so I’ll give you a 3D heads-up ….
http://broadcastengineering.com/news...ball-3-d-0813/

or, if you’re more into the NFL and happen to be visiting the N.E. –
http://content.usatoday.com/communit...adcast-in-3d/1

[Penton-Man]

Oliver K-
England has Paul the Octopus now predicting other soccer related matters…..
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/...news/#38791701

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Taffy

I watched my ENCOR HD channel recording of ALIENS last night on the big screen HT. Impressive...most impressive indeed...and not a hint of those nasty things that posters like to talk about. Plenty of detail on most scenes as Mr Cameron shot this movie much like TV directors shoot these days...plenty of facial close ups with lots of wrinkles and skin dimples being displayed. It's noticeably sharper than the DVD...though the DVD upconverted to 1080i is not that hard on the eyes...either.

I think screen grabs of this HD telecast (if used by SG reviewers) are going to hold their own quite well against the Blu ray release, imo, and that's not going to sit well with a lot of folks.

I would love to see on line reviewers incorporate comparisons between HDTV telecasts and their Blu ray counterparts as part of the Blu ray review process. DVD Vs BR comparisons are useless (of course the BR PQ is better) as well as comparisons to how the movie looked when it premiered....duhhhhh, who can remember that far back or comparisons to film negatives. I mean really...who gets to see those regularly. Anyway...just getting some thoughts off my chest.

I guess madshi missed that broadcast version?
Taffy, I think you just gave some Aliens Blu-ray folks a case of hemorrhoids.