"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[kpkelley]

With this weekend's release of DOP Greig Fraser's Let Me In, it begs the question....When will Sony release Bright Star domestically?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by kpkelley

With this weekend's release of DOP Greig Fraser's Let Me In, it begs the question....When will Sony release Bright Star domestically?

kp, I prefer not to internet intervene much in those sorts of marketing/publicity pre-announcements or predictions as that’s not my dept. That role is more geared toward managers or directors of publicity -> bloggers.

Sometimes I’ll make an exception with things like correcting some public misinformation listed by retailers, etc. but, in this case, I have nothing to offer you. Sorry.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

Nice tidbits as always, P.

Meanwhile, I had one of the more egregious digital cinema moments yesterday...

Well, luckily that was a temporary or time-limited glitch during your viewing.

What I find more troublesome is that some digitally shot material is being submitted to post production facilities in which a few cinematographers are mistakenly assuming that they do not need to abide by the traditional 5% total cut-in rule which has been standard practice with film camera set-up (i.e. 2.5% on each side is the normal difference between camera aperture and projection aperture) which has ultimately led to continuous framing problems, so-to-speak, of the digitally projected images at your local digital Cineplex, thru no fault of the theater owners/operators.

[Penton-Man]

Shark, it’s good to see a filmmakers’ respect for the environment evident in sub-themes of some of their motion pictures become translated into real-world awareness and activism.

Kudos goes to Jim C. who was in your Canadian country earlier this week inspecting the possible/potential environmental impact of technology and using his notoriety to bring peoples’ attention to these type of issues -
http://video.msn.com/?mkt=en-ca&from...0-94d8925b48bb

[Penton-Man]

I received a PM asking me to comment on this post from an outside forum, namely, HDD. The pertinent post being this…
http://forums.highdefdigest.com/blu-...ml#post2024362

I haven’t watched the Blu-ray of The Maltese Falcon, so firstly I’m not certain if greenman’s observation regarding the increased contrast on Maltese Falcon is accurate but, unless someone has evidence to discredit that observation, let’s assume greenman is correct as many films from the 30’s and 40’s (and even later) would indeed be described as ‘low-contrast’ when viewing their back-in-the-day theatrical film projections as compared to many modern day films of today.

During the digital restoration process, the film’s gamma can be altered by the archival/preservation team producing some exaggerated contrast and increased midrange detail as compared to the original theatrical presentation, so, the question becomes….are modern day audiences accepting of such *contemporization* of thee really old classics?

[sharkshark]

Define "accepting", please.

I'm the idiot that's going to buy it anyway, if that's what you mean, and not just steal the MKV like more than a few forum posters/"screen shot enthusiasts", as you'd put it, seem to be doing these days.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

are modern day audiences accepting of such *contemporization* of thee really old classics?

[DenonCI]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I received a PM asking me to comment on this post from an outside forum, namely, HDD. The pertinent post being this…
http://forums.highdefdigest.com/blu-...ml#post2024362

I haven’t watched the Blu-ray of The Maltese Falcon, so firstly I’m not certain if greenman’s observation regarding the increased contrast on Maltese Falcon is accurate but, unless someone has evidence to discredit that observation, let’s assume greenman is correct as many films from the 30’s and 40’s (and even later) would indeed be described as ‘low-contrast’ when viewing their back-in-the-day theatrical film projections as compared to many modern day films of today.

During the digital restoration process, the film’s gamma can be altered by the archival/preservation team producing some exaggerated contrast and increased midrange detail as compared to the original theatrical presentation, so, the question becomes….are modern day audiences accepting of such *contemporization* of thee really old classics?

I don't have a problem with it. Furthermore, how many people are alive that saw it theatrically who would really care? I think it looks pretty darn good given its age and it's an awesome movie!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by sharkshark

Define "accepting", please.

I'm the idiot that's going to buy it anyway, if that's what you mean, and not just steal the MKV like more than a few forum posters/"screen shot enthusiasts", as you'd put it, seem to be doing these days.

‘Accepting’ in the sense that the real-time home theater viewing of the Blu-ray product will bring you and others, whether they be *videophiles*, *cinephiles*, *screenshot scientists*, *Blu-ray collectors*, whatever, a completely fulfilled, pleasurable cinematic experience with the background knowledge that perhaps this old time classic was never projected that bright and contrasty to begin with…..assuming of course, that greenman’s screenshot analysis (linked to above) is accurate.

Believe me, this is not some off-the-wall food for thought, as a well-known/respected cinematographer who writes a regular column for American Cinematographer has fairly recently expressed such an observation/reservation with digital restorations of at least one old feature film before.

[wallendo]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

‘Accepting’ in the sense that the real-time home theater viewing of the Blu-ray product will bring you and others, whether they be *videophiles*, *cinephiles*, *screenshot scientists*, *Blu-ray collectors*, whatever, a completely fulfilled, pleasurable cinematic experience with the background knowledge that perhaps this old time classic was never projected that bright and contrasty to begin with…..assuming of course, that greenman’s screenshot analysis (linked to above) is accurate.

Believe me, this is not some off-the-wall food for thought, as a well-known/respected cinematographer who writes a regular column for American Cinematographer has fairly recently expressed such an observation/reservation with digital restorations of at least one old feature film before.

The B&W films I saw as a child did not have the same contrast as what I have seen on recent BD's, but it doesn't bother me a bit (It has also been a long time). Also, the perception of Brightness and Contrast are quite dependent on ambient light in either the theatre or home theatre, so I do not worry about this much.

On the other hand, if the enhanced contrast is achieved on the original scans by carefully selecting black points and white points (and not just adjusting the gamma on an existing scan), a "contrast enhanced" scan would preserve more of the original details for archival purposes (at least until Hollywood expands the bit-depth of current scans).

[Penton-Man]

Surf the forums -

I love the internet, regarding differences of opinion and posturing …..https://forum.blu-ray.com/3840054-post1172.html

in contrast to several of the posts including and following this –http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19296000

Billy!

[Bill Hunt]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Surf the forums -

I love the internet, regarding differences of opinion and posturing …..https://forum.blu-ray.com/3840054-post1172.html

in contrast to several of the posts including and following this –http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19296000

Billy!

Wait... are we commenting on the work of screen shot scientists now? I thought that was off limits. I love this whole trend of obsessively comparing a BD screenshot to European HD brodcast screenshots to whatever other HD feed people can cap. Methinks a lot of people are missing the point.

[JimSD]

Originally Posted by Bill Hunt

Wait... are we commenting on the work of screen shot scientists now? I thought that was off limits. I love this whole trend of obsessively comparing a BD screenshot to European HD brodcast screenshots to whatever other HD feed people can cap. Methinks a lot of people are missing the point.

I read some of the posts at AVS that PM linked to and regardless of whether they are correct or not, they really seem to take a perverse pleasure in finding anything they perceive to be wrong. Doesn't matter if it's better than anything they've ever seen in their home. They obviously don't watch movies for the story anymore. That's not to say that enhanced PQ doesn't increase your enjoyment, because I've certainly found that to be the case, but they are just so over the top extreme.

[Bill Hunt]

Originally Posted by JimSD

I read some of the posts at AVS that PM linked to and regardless of whether they are correct or not, they really seem to take a perverse pleasure in finding anything they perceive to be wrong. Doesn't matter if it's better than anything they've ever seen in their home. They obviously don't watch movies for the story anymore. That's not to say that enhanced PQ doesn't increase your enjoyment, because I've certainly found that to be the case, but they are just so over the top extreme.

Agreed. You know, it's fascinating. Having visited Universal personally to talk about the specific issue of the image quality of their Blu-rays, I was shown a couple of scenes from the Back to the Future Blu-ray - the first film only. I don't know if what I was shown was cherry-picked, but it was played from check discs and it looked terrific. Grain was visible, and no digital smoothing was in evidence. If other portions of the transfer suffer from it, well... that's a shame. I hope that's not the case. Regardless I'm going to wait and see the discs for myself. What I do know is that no matter what the discs look like, there will be image scientists and format-come-lately experts who will be hyper-critical of it. Hell, even when trusted eyeballs in film restoration say a BD transfer is great, there are still plenty of people on the various forums who say the release is a travesty - witness the critics of Criterion's fine recent Blu-rays. Clearly, among Blu-ray consumers, there's a VERY wide range of opinions about exactly what constitutes a good and proper image. And frankly, I'm tired of arguing with them. It's as useless as debating a person's political opinons. They're convinced and you're not going to dissuade them otherwise.

Movies are meant to be enjoyed, and I'm happy to have plenty of readers on The Bits who still appreciate that. It's good to see that there are many of like mind here on BD.com as well.

[Deciazulado]

Sometimes I'm reminded of the kind of audiophiles who listen to their Stereos instead of to their records

"Does the midrange sound congested to you?!?" instead of "Damn isn't that horn player good!!"

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by Bill Hunt

Hell, even when trusted eyeballs in film restoration say a BD transfer is great, there are still plenty of people on the various forums who say the release is a travesty - witness the critics of Criterion's fine recent Blu-rays.

Pro-B

[Beta Man]

My stance on the taboo topic of screenshots, is that if a transfer is seriously botched, multiple screenshots can usually point it out quite well...... but people can also cherry-pick a shot or two that they can find very minor flaws in that are undetectable while watching the Blu-ray in its' entirety while in motion.

Screenshots are best used when supporting observations/impressions after seeing the finished product..... There have been plenty of early screenshots that represent the poor finished product, but there have also been many that have left me scratching my head after watching the Blu-ray, and subsequently thoroughly enjoying it.

[Beta Man]

I heard about the Star Wars 3D thing on the Stern show...... and yes, they're going in order (of film, not of their theatrical release) so by the time the 3 that most people really care about are released...... 3D will be old-hat.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by wallendo

The B&W films I saw as a child did not have the same contrast as what I have seen on recent BD's, but it doesn't bother me a bit (It has also been a long time). Also, the perception of Brightness and Contrast are quite dependent on ambient light in either the theatre or home theatre, so I do not worry about this much....

Wally, seems you’re old enough to remember how The Last of the Mohicans looked in your local theater back in the day.

I haven’t caught the recently released Blu-ray but, I’m wondering if by your recollection of the theatrical presentation back-in-the-day, if the Blu-ray incarnation has been brightened/ contrast ‘contemporized’ for modern audiences or if it has stayed faithful to the dim *look* which garnered Dante Spinotti an ASC nomination for Best Cinematography by fellow colleagues.

As an aside, talk about a troubled production back in the day. If I get the time, later on, I’ll hunt up a link to describe what I mean.

[Penton-Man]

Damn, I step out for the day and I see many of the Big Guns make an appearance!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Bill Hunt

Wait... are we commenting on the work of screen shot scientists now? I thought that was off limits....

I don’t know where you got that idea from. Is that some new rule instituted by the administration? On the contrary, we’ve spoken rather profusely about screenshot science on this thread…and if anything, I’ve become more open-minded to the *scientists* in recent weeks because just last month I said that I’ve found the screenshot scientists to be rather unbiased when it comes to evaluating Blu-rays from different studios, which is far more than I can say for other reviewers who seem to be more selective in what they will and won’t review, so as not to raise a black flag.

In fact, Bill, the very last discussion which we were having on the last page, if anything, I gave the screenshot enthusiasts the benefit of the doubt as to their analysis, i.e. “let’s assume greenman is correct” –
https://forum.blu-ray.com/insider-di...ml#post3825167

So no, commenting on the work of screenshot scientists is and never was “off limits”.