"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Blu As Hell]

Close Encounters was indeed worth every penny that was charged for it. Before everybody starts saying "Blade Runner", WB had to be selling it at a lost. I mean it was retailing for 25-30 dollars for 3 Blu-rays and 2 DVDs, hell they charged 50 dollars for the Ocean's Trilogy and it was 3 Blu-rays.

[Cruyff14]

Originally Posted by blindcat87

If there are not enough fans in the BD game for studios to recoup the costs of restoration, production of premium content, and all of the other costs involved in super special editions of classic films, we are not going to get any more of them any time soon.

And if that's the case, people who are mainly interested in classic movies will never buy into Blu-Ray in the first place.
I now actually regret buying a BD player and if I could I would go back to DVD but the quality of BD has spoiled me I'm afraid. But if people who are interested in classics or foreign movies or anything else out of the ordinary, ask me if they should buy into BD at this stage I say don't, just keep on enjoying your SD collection because you're better off.

[aiman04]

No one's complaining. The "Close Encounters" disc is one of the best I've seen. Worth every penny I paid.

Please don't look at it among oursleves only, we are die hard fan of blu-ray and the movie itself, we can truly appreciate the efforts put to it. It's just that to the general public, $49.95 retail price is very high IMO.

[Ian_S]

Perhaps I've gotten the wrong end of the stick here and Penton will correct me, but surely the recoup of costs of the C3EK is not purely down to the Blu-ray release?

Wasn't there also a corresponding re-release on standard DVD which would have benefited from the restoration work? Also I presume this means that Sony have a decent HD master from which they can also sell the HD version of the film to satellite and cable operators etc. for viewing over the air? They could also make more money from that same master by making say an iTunes HD version available and any other download service that is a viable route to market...

So, personally, while Blu-ray sales may not perhaps be huge right now, I don't see it as being a massive stumbling block to getting older films restored. For example Sky here in the UK have been showing some Michael Caine classics recently, Zulu + Italina Job, and I have to say, the latter looked stunning in HD. A superb restoration was done there. I have also seen LoA and Bridge On The River Kwai on SkyHD and thought they both looked pretty good as well.

There is appetite for HD out there be it Blu-ray, download or via OTA TV, and presumably a studio only needs to create one restored version of a film to be able to benefit from that master and use several revenue avenues to recoup the main restoration cost. Even an SD DVD re-release benefits from such restoration and appeals to fans who have not yet embraced HD. So I see all these 'competing' delivery mechanisms as complimentary to each other in terms of funding HD releases. Blu-ray is just one delivery mechanism, not the only one. It just happens to be the best quality one at present.

With regard to CE3K, perhaps Sony should also have released a cheaper bare bones just the theatrical release BD alongside the full special edition. This could have met other peoples price expectations and perhaps made more money per unit further helping Sony recoup their restoration effort.

I think (and hope) it's early days to give up on these releases. Now that the format spat is history, hopefully 2008 will see a bigger takeup of optical HD and people will start to see the benefits that HD will bring to some of these older classics. Of course we need some of them available up front so that people can explore them... chicken and egg perhaps.

[eChopper]

excuse me while I remove the wax from my ears...

We can have Norbit, Nacho Libre , Fast & The Furious on high definition media but not potentially the greatest movie ever made??

Who at Sony has started smoking the crack pipe??

A Passage to India but no Lawrence?

Screw the extras on Lawrence- get it out and I guarantee it will sell in truckloads

[DaViD Boulet]

For me it wasn't overpriced, but for the general public I'm afraid that's a different story especially considering the biggest demographic group of BR player owners.

Oh please. not here too.

Perhaps I've gotten the wrong end of the stick here and Penton will correct me, but surely the recoup of costs of the C3EK is not purely down to the Blu-ray release?

Wasn't there also a corresponding re-release on standard DVD which would have benefited from the restoration work? Also I presume this means that Sony have a decent HD master from which they can also sell the HD version of the film to satellite and cable operators etc. for viewing over the air? They could also make more money from that same master by making say an iTunes HD version available and any other download service that is a viable route to market...

Goog question. Paidgeek, we'd love a response to that when you get a chance.

[Objectivity]

As someone who was barely too young to see it when it first came out in theaters, I can tell you that I don't think CE3K is a premiere title for anyone under the age of 35.

There are "event" movies that will sell well no matter how old a person is, but that isn't one of them.

If that same effort is put into the timeless movies of that time period I think the result will be different.

[Objectivity]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

P.S.
And please everyone, stop with the PM’s regarding a projected debut date for LoA on Blu-ray. For the record, I really can’t tell anyone anything in a PM that I couldn’t post publicly online anyway.

I will tell you that the film will not debut on Blu-ray in 2008.
I doubt that it will even debut in 2009, as Close Encounters of The Third Kind, barely made any money factoring in all the work/expense that was put into it.

Such is the business.

From what you've said before, I had the impression that the work was either underway or complete/almost complete.

In that scenario, isn't it better to release it to begin earning money back over the course of years than wait two more years and have all the money spent factor as a lost when it comes to budgeting.

I just don't want someone to say, "Look we spend $50 BILLION dollars restoring this movie and haven't brought in a single penny to cover that cost. Go out there and burn all the copies of Casablanca as payback."

[Slec]

Originally Posted by Objectivity

From what you've said before, I had the impression that the work was either underway or complete/almost complete.

In that scenario, isn't it better to release it to begin earning money back over the course of years than wait two more years and have all the money spent factor as a lost when it comes to budgeting.

I just don't want someone to say, "Look we spend $50 BILLION dollars restoring this movie and haven't brought in a single penny to cover that cost. Go out there and burn all the copies of Casablanca as payback."

If memory serves, it's one of those differed gratification things (wait for more people to have blu-ray players) so that the instant gratification (sales) upon release will be higher. You can still make money off it as mentioned in previous posts.

[Knight-Errant]

Originally Posted by Objectivity

As someone who was barely too young to see it when it first came out in theaters, I can tell you that I don't think CE3K is a premiere title for anyone under the age of 35.

I'm 25, too young to have been there when it came out, in fact I only saw it on TV in the 90s and to me it's absolutely a premiere title.
It's an evergreen for me.

[Blu n Gold]

Penton,

What were the expectations for Close Encounters? I did not see much TV advertising. It was a great release. I loved it (first time viewing). My lady also likes the movie a lot, so I get to watch it with her. I usually watch my titles alone. (Devil's Rejects, Apacolypto are hardly cuddle material)

[Robert Siegel]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

P.S.
And please everyone, stop with the PM’s regarding a projected debut date for LoA on Blu-ray. For the record, I really can’t tell anyone anything in a PM that I couldn’t post publicly online anyway.

I will tell you that the film will not debut on Blu-ray in 2008.
I doubt that it will even debut in 2009, as Close Encounters of The Third Kind, barely made any money factoring in all the work/expense that was put into it.

Such is the business.

Surely they didn't expect Close Encounters to recoup the costs of the entire project already? Blu-ray is basically a new format, and as players continue to sell, so will Close Encounters, though a reduction in price would probably yield more quantity in sales. I think as more players sell this year, so will this title. In any case, it's pretty sad to hear that Lawrence may not be issued for a few years. In my opinion, these are the titles that get an enitre new segment of the movie fan base to invest in a blu-ray player. Get enough classics out there and those people will be very interested in stepping up to blu-ray. Fox has the right idea with The Sand Pebbles, Butch Cassidy, Longest Day and Patton this May and June. Sure they may not sell a ton of copies initally, but overall, when the fan base of this era of movies is thinking about buying a blu-ray player, all of the classic titles available will surely be a big part of their decision. This is one area that I think the studios cannot expect to recoup costs immediately, but I feel the big classic films are important to the format. Right now I know of 3 friends who are not buying a blu-ray player simply because they are classic fans and there's next-to-nothing available for them..they are centainly not the only 3. I am not saying these titles are going to go like hotcakes, just saying I feel they are important to the adoption of the format to a certain segment of the movie-buying population.

[HeavyHitter]

I'm very happy Close Encounters was released; but I'm surprised they released it so early. I will say the price tag didn't help - though this release was WELL worth the money to me.

[SpaceDog]

Originally Posted by mntwister

Surely they didn't expect Close Encounters to recoup the costs of the entire project already? Blu-ray is basically a new format, and as players continue to sell, so will Close Encounters, though a reduction in price would probably yield more quantity in sales. I think as more players sell this year, so will this title. In any case, it's pretty sad to hear that Lawrence may not be issued for a few years. In my opinion, these are the titles that get an enitre new segment of the movie fan base to invest in a blu-ray player. Get enough classics out there and those people will be very interested in stepping up to blu-ray. Fox has the right idea with The Sand Pebbles, Butch Cassidy, Longest Day and Patton this May and June. Sure they may not sell a ton of copies initally, but overall, when the fan base of this era of movies is thinking about buying a blu-ray player, all of the classic titles available will surely be a big part of their decision. This is one area that I think the studios cannot expect to recoup costs immediately, but I feel the big classic films are important to the format. Right now I know of 3 friends who are not buying a blu-ray player simply because they are classic fans and there's next-to-nothing available for them..they are centainly not the only 3. I am not saying these titles are going to go like hotcakes, just saying I feel they are important to the adoption of the format to a certain segment of the movie-buying population.

The issue at hand is that release date and the weeks surrounding it are te biggest profit releases for any home media. It makes more sense for high profile catalog titles to be held until there are enough installed players to make week 1 a stellar sales week.
It wasn't catalog titles that made DVD in the first place. Matrix was a new release and it was the first million seller. When the day and date releases start hitting those numbers, we'll see a greater probability for high profile catalog titles.

[JAGUAR1977]

ET would sell bucket loads, that's a timeless, mass market title.

Close Encounters will be a slow burner, marketing needs to tie it in with any newer Spielberg titles.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Blu n Gold

Penton,

What were the expectations for Close Encounters?

Well, I can’t get into specifics but, in general………like……more profitability.
Not to worry though, the classics will continue to trickle out at a measured pace but, the ones that incurred a great deal of up-front restoration/production cost may be held back a tad until there is more of an installed user base.

[Penton-Man]

I attended a 3D get-together in Hollywood last evening and one of the panelists gave me a link to pass onto all you 3D nuts out there. I haven’t watched it but here it is……….

http://www.hdeducation.com/virtual/p...Vangaurds.html

[PaulGo]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Well, I can’t get into specifics but, in general………like……more profitability.
Not to worry though, the classics will continue to trickle out at a measured pace but, the ones that incurred a great deal of up-front restoration/production cost may be held back a tad until there is more of an installed user base.

It's hard to justify purchasing a HD version of an older movie when you already have purchased the DVD. Unless it's a real classic that you want to see again and again, but those are very rare. I think a lot more people would be motivated to upgrade if the studio gave a trade-in credit for the DVD. Of course that would cut into the studios profit, but they probably would sell a lot more of the older movies re-released on Blu-ray.

[Blu n Gold]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Well, I can’t get into specifics but, in general………like……more profitability.
Not to worry though, the classics will continue to trickle out at a measured pace but, the ones that incurred a great deal of up-front restoration/production cost may be held back a tad until there is more of an installed user base.

I guess, was Sony hoping for Close Encounters to set records? Were they hoping that it would carry the week. Did they want Transformers-esque numbers? Were they hoping for it to be the best selling catalogue release?

I am not asking for specific numbers, just general expectations. Every business wants everything to be more profitable.

[neo_reloaded]

Close Encounters of the Third Kind is a marvelous film, no doubt, and the work done on it was fantastic as well. Truly a top-quality release.

But the film is hardly the type to break sales records in the first week. This isn't E.T., Jurassic Park, or The Godfather - the popular interest simply isn't there in the same way. I don't say this as any reflection on the movie's quality, but it's not a movie that the whole family looks forward to sitting down and watching, nor one that more mainstream audiences are going to be super excited for. It appeals to certain groups of cinema fans, and to a large segment of science fiction fans, but a lot of these types are the ones still waiting for Blu-ray to put out the kinds of movies they want to see! One movie isn't enough to make them go "Oh, I'll run out and buy a player today!"

It was a great first start. I'm sure it got some people's attention, and I'm sure it will continue to sell as time goes on and the format gathers strength. But it's quite disheartening to hear Penton-Man and paidgeek talking about this like it was a failure, and saying that its sales (or lack thereof) have discouraged future catalogue releases. If one semi-popular, lightly-marketed, high-priced catalogue title not selling a lot is enough to discourage studios, then we are in a lot of trouble.