"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

In summary, (Doctorossi should get my drift here ) the opportunity for digital colorists and post production supervisors to have available by the manufacturer, proper, structured training beforehand will take a lot of the beta-testing experience out of this part of the newest 4K acquisition device (and its filmmaking chain) to enter the market.

It's no substitute for the kind of independent digital grading school that still needs to come into existence, but it's an appreciated start.

[Doctorossi]

Penton, do you think (as onboard processing costs come down) acquisition devices will eventually offer a parallel standardized .dpx output so you can use a common set of LUTs right off the camera (while keeping the advantages of proprietary camera formats available as well)? Or will we end up seeing a third-party conversion box that carries updated LUTs and format I/O for everything?

[Deciazulado]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

the opportunity for digital colorists and post production supervisors to have available by the manufacturer, proper, structured training beforehand will take a lot of the beta-testing experience out of this part of the newest 4K acquisition device (and its filmmaking chain) to enter the market.

New century, new tools.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

The guy on the left appears to be thinking, "This is all wrong!"

[androvsky]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

In all seriousness, at first glance reading sharkshark’s link posted above, some might think that this training workshop is exclusively for cinematographers and their Directors but, it is also valuable for the other disciplines in the filmmaking process as well.

For example, even very experienced colorists may be unsure of how you grade the F65 images and this can lead to a host of real-world post production questions which are by no means trivial, i.e. -
Is F65 RAW footage like, for instance, ARRIRAW and how do you begin working on the F65 files?

Answer – Different than ARRIRAW. The F65 RAW data is in a single file MXF wrapper with audio tracks. The data (thank God no winding and rewinding, as that’s more for celluloid timers, they like the nostalgia aspect of that) should be first converted to a color space like ACES, P3 or rec709, although working in S-Gamut directly is doable….with considerations for the secondaries.

Should you start *from scratch* and just begin grading the raw images or, first apply a S-curve style film LUT?

Answer – The later or at least apply a gamma correction in order to work right with your particular display.

In summary, (Doctorossi should get my drift here ) the opportunity for digital colorists and post production supervisors to have available by the manufacturer, proper, structured training beforehand will take a lot of the beta-testing experience out of this part of the newest 4K acquisition device (and its filmmaking chain) to enter the market.

That's all pretty interesting stuff, even though I'm far from a camera expert. There's a quote in the article about managing the data and I'll definitely vouch for that; uncompressed 4k 16-bit video data fills up drives fast. We're still a ways out from another hard drive tech breakthrough, so it's not going to get much easier any time soon.

[RiseDarthVader]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

In essence, yes it’s a good idea to calibrate if you desire the most accurate 3D picture. Marty, Bob R. and the lesser known filmmakers on Hugo utilized regularly calibrated 46” 3D LCD HD monitors on-set to view their footage and of course all D.I. suites are carefully calibrated for dailies viewing as well as post.

If Hugo and I'm guessing many other 3D productions have on-set calibrated 3D monitors along with post-production calibrated monitors why has Michael Bay and his colour grader faced trouble with the Transformers: DOTM 3D grading for the Blu-ray release? It appears that's the only movie with a troubled Blu-ray 3D release while all the other one have gone through fine for brightness and colour.

[rickah88]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Wow, I just noticed a couple of players were sent to the penalty box. Well, anyway, we await your return to the ice.
I guess the lesson to be learned is...don’t mess with the refs.

Freedom....
I'd still like to know what my infraction was?

[Penton-Man]

Hey, I think those involved should just be glad that it was probably one of the shortest suspensions in Blu-ray history.

Good to have you and the others back. The mods have everyone’s best interests at heart and without pointing fingers or rehashing the whole Apple, etc. thing, telling people they're full of sh*t or that they are liars, etc. is not allowed.
Cheer up.

slap shot - YouTube

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by RiseDarthVader

If Hugo and I'm guessing many other 3D productions have on-set calibrated 3D monitors along with post-production calibrated monitors why has Michael Bay and his colour grader faced trouble with the Transformers: DOTM 3D grading for the Blu-ray release?

Are you sure that's not just "taste"? Most of the Michael Bay footage I've seen appeared to have been graded without it.

[Penton-Man]

Speaking of refs, I, for one, think this is long overdue for soccer…
http://www.kfvs12.com/story/17070945...or-final-tests

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Cheer up.

Gee... I wandered off for 10 minutes and it looks like I missed all the fun.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Speaking of refs, I, for one, think this is long overdue for soccer…
http://www.kfvs12.com/story/17070945...or-final-tests

Yes- 'bout damn time.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by RiseDarthVader

If Hugo and I'm guessing many other 3D productions have on-set calibrated 3D monitors along with post-production calibrated monitors why has Michael Bay and his colour grader faced trouble with the Transformers: DOTM 3D grading for the Blu-ray release? It appears that's the only movie with a troubled Blu-ray 3D release while all the other one have gone through fine for brightness and colour.

Rise, you have me at a loss. I don’t know anything about the brightness and color (nor have I seen) the Transformers: DOTM 3D Blu-ray.

If there appears to be a technical colorspace conversion problem rather than some sort of creative intent going on by the filmmaker, then all I can say is that is unusual and I would go to that forum which Michael Bay (or his assistant) posts on and inform them as to what exactly it is you are troubled with and then just ask them what’s up in order to get specific information.

All I can offer you are some generalizations in regards to color grading 2D vs. 3D images, namely, in 3D space, cooler colors such as blue and light green appear farther away because the brain perceives these as normal background colors. Warmer colors appear closer in the 3D place, so these principles are of consideration with the final grade.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

It's no substitute for the kind of independent digital grading school that still needs to come into existence, but it's an appreciated start.

You do realize why I chose that particular color to highlight that particular phrase?

In other words, as Sony’s first 4K digital camera, the F65 and its workflow is not intended to be a beta test ground, like One in the past, because professionals who will use this camera, demand that it be right for shooting, as well as, for the handling and color grading of the data files it produces,…and by “right” I mean user friendly from the launch with proper education that is available.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Penton, do you think (as onboard processing costs come down) acquisition devices will eventually offer a parallel standardized .dpx output so you can use a common set of LUTs right off the camera (while keeping the advantages of proprietary camera formats available as well)? Or will we end up seeing a third-party conversion box that carries updated LUTs and format I/O for everything?

If it were to happen….the former.

To the topic of ‘conversion boxes’, as an aside, and perhaps more of interest to some high-end home theater enthusiasts reading this thread, Sony engineers are currently working on a conversion box which will enable the Sony 4K home projector to accept native 4K vis-à-vis a bank of four HDMI/SDI inputs. The convertor box will then output native 4K signal via a single HDMI to the projector. Hopefully, this becomes widely available to 4K projector owners while waiting on 4K Blu-ray packaged media to rollout, since some innovative souls (I get PMs/emails about this every other week) already do have native 4K source right now, which they would like to feed thee pixel monster. I feel certain that the JVC folks are also working on a converter box in order to connect their 4K camcorder to the upcoming 4K TVs from other manufacturers.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Deciazulado

New century, new tools.

Deci, , you do realize that you are going to tick off somebody on another forum.

Is that a long flat American eel the guy on the left is holding next to the cameraman?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

The guy on the left appears to be thinking, "This is all wrong!"

He’s saying, "sheesh, can you imagine the cascading MTF which will cause a loss of detail in just going one step down from the OCN -> IP.

And then, from there, with each successive generation…. IP -> IN, IN-> release print step. Digital people in the future should be applauded whenever they use the original negative as a source for the 4K scan of 35mm. film on its way to those Blu-ray fans….or an 8K scan of 65mm. original negative, for that matter. "

The camera man is saying…”what the hell are you talking about”.

The guy holding the archaic piece of nostalgia is saying…”I had a dream into the future about a Quantel publication in 1995 or 1996 graphically showing generation loss starting from the original negative. It’s depressing.”

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

This just in -
Eagle eyes in the fatherland (Germany) have noted a spiffy VW speeding around, especially in the North, displaying a new personalized license plate reading…

LOA 1962
I guess that German Lawrence of Arabia Blu-ray fan just can’t wait.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

You do realize why I chose that particular color to highlight that particular phrase?

Yes, I Red your post and understood.

[Steedeel]

Doc, my team beat Liverpool with key players missing at weekend, but you guys can make it the perfect week by beating Newcastle tonight. Just bought projector so looking forward to christening it with first football match! Even sweeter, if the mags get beat!