Early Blu-rays that may have playback issues (Criterion, Well Go USA, etc.)

[AgentOrange]

It's kind of alarming that the premier blu-ray company would have issues like this on a volume of titles (i.e. not 1 or 2 titles, but many titles). Yet I can say I haven't personally run into any issues with any Criterion's yet, and I have literally hundreds of them that I watch all the time. Hopefully it stays that way.

I just watched my copy of "M" and "Chunking Express" within the last few weeks, and no playback issues for me. I'll have to look into watching some of the others with reported problems, and also see if there is any of this "bronzing" that you all are talking about.

[neo_reloaded]

Originally Posted by Freeza

I'd stop replying to his posts as he seems to be trolling. Practically every post of his in this thread has been way off the deep and and highly inflammatory.

I feel more like he's going off the deep end in an OCD-induced panic. Imagining that, I feel bad for him and wish he would calm down.

[GenPion]

Originally Posted by captveg

I've watched my copies of the three problem discs I have (M, Monterey Pop, Howards End) once each, and these viewings were at least two years ago.

Okay, then my theory sounds highly unlikely. It was worth asking about. If it had been right anyway, it wouldn't have been too helpful as it would suggest people shouldn't watch their discs with too high of a frequency to avoid disc rot. Obviously a replacement would still be needed. I just thought it might help pinpoint why some are seeing an issue now and others aren't (yet). I guess it exclusively comes down to the pressing plant? I have some of the mentioned discs and they visibly look fine but I have not done disc scans. And like you, I watched once on some of them probably two or more years ago.

[KRW1]

Just tried a selection of mine which range from Howard's End (watched once) and Marienbad (probably watched 9-10 times) and they're all fine. No discolouration and playback is fine (I've just skipped through using chapter select and played a few minutes here and there). Hoping this is isolated.

[mrjohnnyb]

I noticed that Brent L., the member who posted the photos of the bronzing discs, was from South Carolina. I am assuming that he made the majority of his purchases in that state.

I was thinking that if it is indeed a manufacturing plant issue, perhaps we could narrow down the area and figure out where these discs are being produced.

I have seen nothing on my discs (so far) to think that they are damaged goods, and I have made all of my purchases in New Jersey, South-Eastern Pennsylvania, and Delaware.

If anyone who has been experiencing bronzing could chime in with the location of their purchases, it might give us some idea.

Just a thought.

[Partyslammer]

Originally Posted by GenPion

I guess it exclusively comes down to the pressing plant?

It's a strong possibility but at this point, no one knows for certain.

Would be interesting if someone could figure out what specific replication plant manufactured the Criterion titles in question and go on to figure out what other non-Criterion BDs they've been responsible for during the '09-'10 period. Imagine the panic if that plant is indeed the culprit and has also pressed titles during the same time frame for other boutique labels... like Scream/Shout... or Twilight Time.

[Brent L.]

Originally Posted by mrjohnnyb

I noticed that Brent L., the member who posted the photos of the bronzing discs, was from South Carolina. I am assuming that he made the majority of his purchases in that state.

I was thinking that if it is indeed a manufacturing plant issue, perhaps we could narrow down the area and figure out where these discs are being produced.

I have seen nothing on my discs (so far) to think that they are damaged goods, and I have made all of my purchases in New Jersey, South-Eastern Pennsylvania, and Delaware.

If anyone who has been experiencing bronzing could chime in with the location of their purchases, it might give us some idea.

Just a thought.

I buy almost all of my Criterions online - Amazon, B&N, and other such places when they go on sale.

[neo_reloaded]

Originally Posted by Brent L.

I buy almost all of my Criterions online - Amazon, B&N, and other such places when they go on sale.

ARGUABLY, Amazon will ship to you from a closer warehouse, and that warehouse will be supplied by a closer replication plant.

But I'm not sure if this is really the avenue to pursue. Doesn't the Mould SID skip this whole geographic game and give a clearcut answer as to which replication facility produced which discs? That cuts out a lot of (guess)work in my opinion...

[Blu MacReady]

Just noticed this thread. Have scan read through.....but, sorry to ask again if already asked....
Has anyone confirmed this problem is solely criterion and just the dates in the OP? Is this issue being reported on discs from other companies?

Thanks and hope this is the first time questioned.

[neo_reloaded]

Originally Posted by Blu MacReady

Just noticed this thread. Have scan read through.....but, sorry to ask again if already asked....
Has anyone confirmed this problem is solely criterion and just the dates in the OP? Is this issue being reported on discs from other companies?

Thanks and hope this is the first time questioned.

Currently unknown. One person said a disc from Well Go USA had a similar bronze color, but it currently was still working. This issue has not been thoroughly explored, as people are focused on the Criterion issue at the moment.

[jscoggins]

Originally Posted by Blu MacReady

Just noticed this thread. Have scan read through.....but, sorry to ask again if already asked....
Has anyone confirmed this problem is solely criterion and just the dates in the OP? Is this issue being reported on discs from other companies?

Thanks and hope this is the first time questioned.

Many failures were Lionsgate BDs from the format's earliest years. A couple of bad Warner and Universal discs were caught quickly as well.

People have known about at least four of these Criterions for years, but because they don't sell in the numbers that big studio releases do, it took some time for this issue to gain traction. However, as soon as we started digging, more bad discs became apparent.

[Blu MacReady]

Thanks. Bit worrying, thought these were built to last.

Good luck to all with this problem in getting a swift resolve from Criterion, if possible

[steel_breeze]

Inspected all of my (many) Criterion discs and thankfully have found no bronzing on any of them, including "Stagecoach", "8 1/2", "Wings of Desire" and "Days of Heaven".

Skipped through "Stagecoach" (along with accompanying silent film) and "8 1/2" just to be sure and all played fine on my Oppo BD83.

To add to the data: I live in Los Angeles and have always collected these titles from Amazon the day they're available -- definitely "first pressing".

[Owlstrike]

Originally Posted by mrjohnnyb

I noticed that Brent L., the member who posted the photos of the bronzing discs, was from South Carolina. I am assuming that he made the majority of his purchases in that state.

I was thinking that if it is indeed a manufacturing plant issue, perhaps we could narrow down the area and figure out where these discs are being produced.

I have seen nothing on my discs (so far) to think that they are damaged goods, and I have made all of my purchases in New Jersey, South-Eastern Pennsylvania, and Delaware.

If anyone who has been experiencing bronzing could chime in with the location of their purchases, it might give us some idea.

Just a thought.

Hmm... I have effective disks and live/purchased in GA or online.

[rdandura]

I live in southern CA as well and had only one truly browned Criterion disc (Walkabout 1st printing) and had other BDs that worked not as good on a Samsung player but played better on a Sony player.

Has anyone thought of contacting Thedigitalbits (Bill Hunt) about this issue? Maybe that could get Criterion's attention more.

[Arkadin]

this wiki article on "cd bronzing" says that the brownish discoloration is caused by the creation of silver sulphate due to a chemical reaction between the paper in the booklets and the disc.

"PDO acknowledged that the problem was due to a manufacturing error on its part, but it gave different explanations for the problem. The most widely acknowledged explanation[citation needed] is that the lacquer used to coat the discs was not resistant to the sulphur content of the paper in the booklets, which led to the corrosion of the aluminium layer of the disc, even though PDO later said it was because "a silver coating had been used on its discs instead of the standard gold."[3] Peter Copeland of the British Library Sound Archive confirmed that silver instead of aluminium in the reflective layer of the CD would react with sulphuriferous sleeves, forming silver sulphate[dubious – discuss], which has a bronze colour.[4] A combination of the two factors seems likely because, as Barbara Hirsch of the University of California points out, the oxidation could only have occurred if the protective lacquer did not seal the metal film and substrate well enough.[2]

There are also isolated reports of CD discolouring with discs from other pressing plants, but these do not seem to be as widespread and may be due to other reasons than the manufacturing error that occurred at PDO. In particular, colour changes that occur along with the visible disintegration of the data layer (i.e. holes) are not typical of CD bronzing, but should be considered CD rot."


there is no article that talks about dvd or bd "bronzing"
typical disc rot has the appearance of tiny dots over the entire disc surface, as shown here on a copy of the blu-ray The Prestige from 2007.


http://www.avsforum.com/forum/150-bl...ew-titles.html


so the current problem with these Criterion blu-rays would seem to fall under this alternate type of "disc rot" called "bronzing", and is not the more traditionally seen disc rot, which is the appearance of the tiny dots.

.

[jscoggins]

That will be the reason the studios tell us why they don't include booklets or inserts with BDs anymore.

[steel_breeze]

I hate learning stuff like that. Dammit all, my OCD inclination is to go remove all booklets from all BD's, even though that makes me a crazy person.

[GenPion]

Solution for Criterion: start pressing slipcovers over the clear cases and have the booklets tucked behind the movie case instead of inside the cases and next to the discs.

Granted, this isn't even a confirmation and I doubt that will happen. But if it turns out to be the case I could see something like this being a possibility.

[atlantajoseph]

Originally Posted by steel_breeze

I hate learning stuff like that. Dammit all, my OCD inclination is to go remove all booklets from all BD's, even though that makes me a crazy person.

Haha, you and me both.