Early Blu-rays that may have playback issues (Criterion, Well Go USA, etc.)

[cakefactory]

I started checking the codes on the discs, and unfortunately the two I ran disc scan on were L323, so they were apparently not first pressings (Days of Heaven and M). Walkabout, A Christmas Tale, Wings of Desire and Paris Texas are all from the L02x numbers, though. None of them look brown under heavy light but I'll do the sector check on them.

[pedromvu]

Originally Posted by RupertPupkin

there is a A01 / A02 code marked on the inner-circle (the inner-circle where
you have a matrix or ID of the disk)
I have checked with a friend who also bought "Walkabout" Blu-Ray at the same
time (day 1), like me, but his copy is just fine with no browning on the
surface of the disk.

What could perhaps help you is that his disk which is fine (...so far)
doesn't have a "A01 / A02" code (for layer 1 / 2 ???); which implie perhaps that although it comes
perhaps from the same plant/pressing, it is perhaps not from the same
"batch" of pressing.

My Summer Hours with LB42 doesn't have those kind of codes for each layer, on the other hand my Stagecoach also faulty (L021) does have those identifiers

[RupertPupkin]

Originally Posted by pedromvu

My Summer Hours with LB42 doesn't have those kind of codes for each layer, on the other hand my Stagecoach also faulty (L021) does have those identifiers

at that time I didn't notice the Lxxx series with LB and L0 series indicating perhaps (I write perhaps because we don't have an official statement so far) a potential title which could "brown" in a next so distant future...

but I did notice a very small stamp A01 / A02 near the matrix of the disk. What I thought that it was a stamp for each layer of the disk (they are all BD50 I think)

What I did notice is that my friend has no "A01 / A02" mark on his "Walkabout" (which is perfectly fine - and purchased when it was released) whereas my browning/bronzing "Walkabout" has a "A01 / A02" mark.
I thought that implied that these 2 "Walkabout" although bought the month following its release were not exactly the same.

Then I did check all titles around the same year of release of "Walkabout" and did notice that a lot have a "A01" / "A02" mark (Paris Texas, M, etc...)
but their surface layer has absolutely nothing wrong (no sign at all of browning/bronzing)

Then the "finger test" with the edge of the surface of the disk : whereas some were totally smooth "like "Vivre Sa Vie"), M, although with no sign of bronzing at all was not smooth when touching with my finger the edge of the disk/while rotating the surface of the disk.

such thing could be checked physically when an editor/label got his first pressing : its an obvious physical sign if the several layers of the disk and are perfectly assembled.
Since disks are rotating at very fast speed in your stand-alone player this can cause vibrations.

But at that time I didn't have the "L0/B..." list

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by RupertPupkin

...But if you touch the edge of the disk with your finger, you'll feel (and you can see it) that the edge of the disk is not as smooth as the other; a bit "rugous".

I'd like to know if some people here who was an obvious Blu-Ray/Title which has gone into "browning/bronzing" check the edge of the disk to feel if it's smooth or not (you can try in comparison with another title which comes obviously from a different plant)

My guess at that time (before the list of suspect/potential "browning/bronzing" title ID L/0) was that this not smooth edge was a physical sign that the coil and surfaces of the disks were not assembled properly.

Of course I was not at ease to find that the edge of a disk was not smooth although there was no browning/bronzing so far...

That's excess hard coat material from the spin coat application process. Criterion discs aren't the only discs that have rougher edges due to this.

[RupertPupkin]

Originally Posted by rdodolak

That's excess hard coat material from the spin coat application process. Criterion discs aren't the only discs that have rougher edges due to this.

ok thanks for this technical explanation. Thus that doesn't imply that the disk will have a problem in some time.

Another reason to wait for an official announcement of Criterion.
Only them can clearly ID which series has or will have a problem.


At that point we can only check which disks can be playback anymore and which one have obvious browning/bronzing and which can still be play/or won't play anymore at all.

[RogelioT]

Originally Posted by GenPion

I also have a question for some of you with several rotting discs: how many times have you watched your discs? I have a theory that it might have something to do with the frequency of viewing. If there is a problem with the discs, some of the discoloration and disc rot might happen after several views as the heat created by playback in a Blu-ray player could be affecting part of the disc layer that is going bad. I could be wrong, of course, but I wonder if there might be some correlation.

My copy of Stagecoach ordered around release day from BarnesandNoble.com appears to work fine and shows no visual damage. With that said (and why this is relevant) is that it used to be my go to thing, to have playing in the background, whenever I was doing other stuff but I wanted something on my TV to distract me just enough. So it has probably been played over 100 times. Sometimes three times straight back to back. Also, I used to store it separately from the booklet for a while.

[sahoward]

Checked my copies of Days of Heaven, Howards End and Seventh Seal. All have the bronzing in the very center ring. All load on my PS3 and I fast forwarded through to the 51 minute mark without issues, but rot is rot and it won't get better. This really sucks.

[jayembee]

Prelim report. I have the following titles from the "problems reported" and "from the same time period" lists:

Howards End -- L021
M -- LB42
Pierrot le fou -- L021
The Seventh Seal -- L021
Stagecoach -- L021

Wings of Desire -- L021
Yojimbo -- L324
Sanjuro -- L323

None of them showed any obvious signs of bronzing.

I've just now started scanning them with VSO Inspector. I'm doing Howards End now. So far, it's done 32% with no errors.

[CHEЯNOБLY!]

Crap...both my Pierrot le fou and Last Year at Marienbad have the L021 on them. In addition, the edges on Pierrot look really sloppy, and even look like they are almost starting to peel in places.

I haven't checked either of them, but I watched Last Year less than six months ago and it played fine, including supplements. I bought Pierrot off of eBay last April. I haven't watch it all the way through, but I skipped around and checked out different scenes when I bought it...didn't notice any issues. Maybe I will watch the whole movie tomorrow.

I am most concerned with my OOP titles. I don't see how they can do anything about these even if they wanted to, and I paid more money for these two.

[rdodolak]

A wiki on SID Codes.

http://wiki.redump.org/index.php?tit...t_of_SID_codes

[pedromvu]

Originally Posted by rdodolak

A wiki on SID Codes.

http://wiki.redump.org/index.php?tit...t_of_SID_codes

According to that both L02X and LB4X are from Sonopress, and L32X from Sony DADC US.

Edit: After a quick search looks like both of these had at some point in the past this kind of issues with CD's.

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by pedromvu

According to that both L02X and LB4X are from Sonopress, and L32X from Sony.

Sonopress was renamed Arvato Digital Services in 2008.

[flanell]

Noticed this thread by coincidence. Had problems with my Summer Hours disc about week ago and contacted Criterion unrelated to seeing this thread. No reply. Haven't looked at the disc itself in broad daylight until now and i must say that it is very bronzed, like some of the pictures that has been posted. Did a quick check on the other titles mentioned (i own most of them). Some of them is starting to change color but not to the extent that my Summer Hours disc does. Haven't bothered to check them completely but i'm worried that they will worsen over time, of course. The only other disc that looked pretty poor (on par with Summer Hours) is Monterey Pop, so i tested that one. Guess what? It stutters and freezes by the time the Criterion logo comes up. The Jimi Hendrix disc from the box on the other hand looks just fine, with no hint of discolorisation whatsoever.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by pedromvu

According to that both L02X and LB4X are from Sonopress, and L32X from Sony DADC US.

Edit: After a quick search looks like both of these had at some point in the past this kind of issues with CD's.

Sony DADC in Terra Haute was infamous for laser rot in the LD days. It was often referred to as "the rot factory".

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by jayembee

I've just now started scanning them with VSO Inspector. I'm doing Howards End now. So far, it's done 32% with no errors.

I don't mean to update after each disc, but my Howards End was clean. No issues. Did a sector scan and a file test. I stuck in M next, and fairly quickly got some sectors needing retries on the scan. I cancelled it for the mo'. Tried Pierrot le fou, and it was having problems loading in my BD-ROM. Put that one aside for now as well, and started The Seventh Seal. Sector scan showed no problems; file test is running now.

In the meantime, I popped Pierrot le fou and then M into my Sony BDP-S550 player. Each one seemed to be fine. Skipped ahead by chapters, both the films and the supplments, and didn't see any problems. I'll try them again with VSO Inspector later.

[Dan8700]

Originally Posted by Dr. Humbert

Well my copies of M and Seventh Seal (L022) are both dead.

What the hell? The Seventh Seal too now? Gonna run a disc check asap. Thanks.
Mine fortunately is L323-L321. I'm beginning to feel very, very lucky having bought all these later...

Originally Posted by RupertPupkin

Well, I see that there is a list with some different pressing ID "L0..." or "LB..." if you have a "0" or "B" and not a "L323" for instance you will have a "potential" blu-ray title which could brown in a next so distant future.

So far, it's not a certaintity it's just - if I understood - that some people here (thanks to them) found a way to ID the different pressing of a same "title".

But my guess is that if I have a title from the bad "batch" of pressing, it could be turning into bronzing in the next months or the next year. Checking the disk and see isn't enough okay for me.

That's exactly it. The L32* code means it's a second pressing. And yes, sadly it's possible all the L0 titles will go bad in the near future (but this we don't know for sure, only periodical checks will tell).

Originally Posted by jayembee

Prelim report. I have the following titles from the "problems reported" and "from the same time period" lists:

Howards End -- L021
M -- LB42
Pierrot le fou -- L021
The Seventh Seal -- L021
Stagecoach -- L021

Wings of Desire -- L021
Yojimbo -- L324
Sanjuro -- L323

None of them showed any obvious signs of bronzing.

I've just now started scanning them with VSO Inspector. I'm doing Howards End now. So far, it's done 32% with no errors.

Let us know all the reports, please. Thank you.

Originally Posted by CHEЯNOБLY!

Crap...both my Pierrot le fou and Last Year at Marienbad have the L021 on them. In addition, the edges on Pierrot look really sloppy, and even look like they are almost starting to peel in places.

I haven't checked either of them, but I watched Last Year less than six months ago and it played fine, including supplements. I bought Pierrot off of eBay last April. I haven't watch it all the way through, but I skipped around and checked out different scenes when I bought it...didn't notice any issues. Maybe I will watch the whole movie tomorrow.

I am most concerned with my OOP titles. I don't see how they can do anything about these even if they wanted to, and I paid more money for these two.

Pierrot Le Fou is being reported faulty more than once now, so try to watch it in its entirety or run a check.

Originally Posted by jayembee

Sony DADC in Terra Haute was infamous for laser rot in the LD days. It was often referred to as "the rot factory".

Well, that's in LD era, though. Fortunately, things change! Anyway thanks for that list. Sonopress... I'll remember this name...

ps. So we have a Howard's End L021 clean... oh, you can avoid the "file test" (takes too much time), the surface scan is enough to detect problems.

[Joeyseven]

Damn this sucks.I own most of these tittles,and some are still sealed
like Howard's End and Pierrot Le Fou.

I'll update my list when I check over all my disc.

Walkabout-Really brown on the most of this disc.
Ride With the Devil-Looks like it is starting to rot(very light brown)

Days of Heaven-Looks okay
M -looks okay
The Seventh Seal-looks okay

[Deep]

Wow! This thread has really taken a life of its own Criterion would be ignoring this issue at their own peril. I had started the thread about Summer Hours a month ago (my original post about this in the main Criterion thread got buried after a response or two) never realizing that that particular title was just the tip of the iceberg. Thanks jscoggins for creating this more general thread. I do have almost all the titles from this time period and am scared to check them all. I am even more scared about what it means for Criterion - hopefully they can hold the disc replication companies responsible because replacing all the bad discs out there could end up being an expensive proposition for them.

-D

[Dan8700]

Finished checking The Seventh Seal L323-L321: 100% OK.
So far, the discs printed at that Sony facility seem to work allright.
Just a brief recap about the problematic titles:

Most of the time reported faulty:
Summer Hours
Walkabout
M
Days of Heaven
Stagecoach

Sometimes:
Howard's End
Pierrot Le Fou
Paris, Texas
8 1/2

Isolated (1 or 2 reports):
Gomorra
Ride with The Devil
Monsoon Wedding
Monterey
The Seventh Seal

[ShellOilJunior]

The Criterion Collection

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