Early Blu-rays that may have playback issues (Criterion, Well Go USA, etc.)

[NEB213]

Paramount problems with bronzing so far

Spiderwick chronicles
Event horizon
Cloverfield
Rolling Stones :Shine a light
Sum of all fears
Hunt for the red October
Drillbit Taylor

[jscoggins]

Originally Posted by NEB213

Paramount problems with bronzing so far

[Show spoiler]Spiderwick chronicles
Event horizon
Cloverfield
Rolling Stones :Shine a light
Sum of all fears
Hunt for the red October
Drillbit Taylor

I have to agree with StingingVelvet on this one. If you're experiencing that many problems with multiple studios, your storage methods might be the culprits.

[NEB213]

Lionsgate bronzing so far

Reservoir Dogs

[NEB213]

I own all criterion films listed that has problems and none in my collection is bronzing
so storage is not a problem.

[jscoggins]

Originally Posted by NEB213

I own all criterion films listed that has problems and none in my collection is bronzing
so storage is not a problem.

Do you keep your Criterions displayed separately?

[neo_reloaded]

25-50% of those discs are BD25s, so "bronzing" isn't even possible.

I fear things have gotten out of hand in the following manner:

- Criterion and Well Go USA titles from a certain period of time had large failure rates and a distinct visual pattern, and this phenomenon was named "bronzing." People form an association between the word "bronzing" and a widespread endemic problem (as in "Oh no all these discs are going to eventually die!").

- The term "bronzing" begins being inappropriately thrown around every time anyone has a defective disc. A handful of defective discs here and there is incredibly common and NOT bronzing, but people don't know the difference.

- People's anxiety gets triggered by the word "bronzing" and these isolated reports are suddenly considered worth tracking in these types of lists.

[OrlandoEastwood]

No one from Metropolitan has gotten back to me on Silent Hill.

[Blu Titan]

Originally Posted by neo_reloaded

25-50% of those discs are BD25s, so "bronzing" isn't even possible.

I fear things have gotten out of hand in the following manner:

- Criterion and Well Go USA titles from a certain period of time had large failure rates and a distinct visual pattern, and this phenomenon was named "bronzing." People now associate "bronzing" with not just a handful of bad discs here and there (as is extremely common) but instead a widespread endemic problem (as in "Oh no all these discs are going to eventually die!").

- The term "bronzing" begins being inappropriately thrown around every time anyone has a defective disc.

- People's anxiety gets triggered by the word "bronzing" and these isolated reports are suddenly considered worth tracking in these types of lists.

Probably the best single post in this thread .Also, if one member's disc stops playing, it does not mean in any way or form that there's a widespread problem with that particular release...stuff happens.

[jscoggins]

Yes, the very early Paramount and Warner discs were BD25s (especially the ones with lossy audio). Furthermore, a lot of disc-type media (CDs, DVDs, BDs, etc.) simply have weird "oily" appearances that could create a "bronzed" look.

On the other hand, poorly pressed discs can still rot.

[Brian81]

Originally Posted by neo_reloaded

25-50% of those discs are BD25s, so "bronzing" isn't even possible.

I fear things have gotten out of hand in the following manner:

- Criterion and Well Go USA titles from a certain period of time had large failure rates and a distinct visual pattern, and this phenomenon was named "bronzing." People form an association between the word "bronzing" and a widespread endemic problem (as in "Oh no all these discs are going to eventually die!").

- The term "bronzing" begins being inappropriately thrown around every time anyone has a defective disc. A handful of defective discs here and there is incredibly common and NOT bronzing, but people don't know the difference.

- People's anxiety gets triggered by the word "bronzing" and these isolated reports are suddenly considered worth tracking in these types of lists.

Bronzing can happen on single layer discs. It happened to PDO UK compact discs and there's only one layer on those.

[NEB213]

Sum of all fears bronzing?

[neo_reloaded]

Originally Posted by Brian81

Bronzing can happen on single layer discs. It happened to PDO UK compact discs and there's only one layer on those.

CD bronzing and BD bronzing are not the same thing. The discs are structured in entirely different ways, the brown-colored effect just visually looks similar so the same word was used.

This highlights the problem of misinformation.

[I KEEL YOU]

Originally Posted by jscoggins

Yes, the very early Paramount and Warner discs were BD25s (especially the ones with lossy audio).

Actually, quite a lot of early Warner releases were BD50s.

They copy-pasted their HD-DVD releases which were dual layered HD-DVDs (30 gigs) onto blu rays. They couldn't fit all the data on a single layered BD (25 gigs) so they made a bunch of idiotically wasted BD50s with around 20 gigs of free space.

[neo_reloaded]

Originally Posted by NEB213

Everyone Check all Blurays from Warner Bros. USA released in 2006-2007
So far I found problems in

The lake house
Lady in the water
The Cowboys
Relentless enemies (national geographic)
Million dollar baby
ATL
Superman II
The getaway (1972)

These were purchased on first year of release.

Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU

Actually, quite a lot of early Warner releases were BD50s.

They copy-pasted their HD-DVD releases which were dual layered HD-DVDs (30 gigs) onto blu rays. They couldn't fit all the data on a single layered BD (25 gigs) so they made a bunch of idiotically wasted BD50s with around 20 gigs of free space.

While that may be true for other releases, the only one that NEB123 posted that is a BD50 is The Cowboys. All the others are BD25s.

His Lionsgate title, Reservoir Dogs, is also a BD25.

[jscoggins]

Originally Posted by neo_reloaded

While that may be true for other releases, the only one that NEB123 posted that is a BD50 is The Cowboys. All the others are BD25s.

His Lionsgate title, Reservoir Dogs, is also a BD25.

Disc rot can happen to single layer discs.

You're getting unnecessarily hung up on the word bronzing.

[neo_reloaded]

Originally Posted by jscoggins

Disc rot can happen to single layer discs.

You're getting unnecessarily hung up on the word bronzing.

It is important because the fear of "bronzing" is what is making people anxious over these otherwise-isolated incidents. If he hadn't labeled it bronzing, I would not have to say "that's not bronzing."

Yes, single layer discs can die. But that is not terribly new information - any type of disc can die, as they have been doing since the invention of optical discs. People are not terribly concerned with a small number of individual discs going bad here and there - it is part and parcel of any such consumer good. People ARE terribly concerned about endemic faults that will lead to entire batches dying, and now we are at the heart of the importance of denoting what is really bronzing and what is not. If some other widespread disc ruining pattern is discovered, I will consider that equally to bronzing.

[jscoggins]

I agree with your most recent post, which is why it was disappointing that so many threads were merged. The Criterion and Well Go failures are different from what happened to the Lionsgate discs. Furthermore, the Criterion and Well Go discs were pressed at different times in different plants.

[jscoggins]

Originally Posted by NEB213

Sum of all fears bronzing?

Can't tell bc of the angle and lighting.

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by Brian81

Bronzing can happen on single layer discs. It happened to PDO UK compact discs and there's only one layer on those.

Bronzing can occur if the metallized reflective layer is adversely affected through oxidation or other chemical reaction with materials used in the manufacturing process.

[neo_reloaded]

Originally Posted by jscoggins

I agree with your most recent post, which is why it was disappointing that so many threads were merged. The Criterion and Well Go failures are different from what happened to the Lionsgate discs. Furthermore, the Criterion and Well Go discs were pressed at different times in different plants.

I too disagree with the way the mods handled this thread. Bronzing is clearly a unique issue, and why we couldn't have one dedicated thread for just bronzing is beyond me. But alas...

The Criterion and Well Go USA failures were at different plants, but everything else about them seems consistent. The same items failed (dual layered BD50s) with the same visual effect (bronzing around the outside edge, extending further inward the further along the failure was) and the same playback problems (skipping/freezing beginning at the layer change, and extending to the disc not even loading as the failure progressed). That, to me, says that the underlying problem is the same - perhaps they used the same faulty raw ingredients, perhaps they had replicating machinery that was faulty in the same manner (perhaps even the same models), etc. That's obviously outside my ability to prove, but I consider that theory likely and will continue to do so until some new information is presented that disproves it.