Early Blu-rays that may have playback issues (Criterion, Well Go USA, etc.)

[LPMA]

Thanks everyone for all the info!

How would one go about checking their discs if they don't have access to a BD drive?

[jscoggins]

Originally Posted by Hayabusa85

This issue has me reconsidering my future Criterion Blu-ray purchases no matter the outcome.

Yup, one of the reasons why I don't import. I can get domestic purchases exchanged/replaced easily enough. Not so with intl purchases.

[Illy Scorsese]

Just checked my copies of:

M
Paris, Texas
Stagecoach
The Third Man
Yojimbo


Absolutely no signs of this problem, thank god.

I'll check "Days of Heaven" & "Monterey Pop" later.

[neo_reloaded]

Just to verify that I'm understanding the SID issue correctly:

There are two IFPI values for the Master, one in the blue ring and one in the gold ring (corresponding to the two layers of these dual-layered BDs). Then there is the Mould IFPI that is on the clear plastic ring, the innermost part of the disc.

And among these two categories, the Mould IFPI value would seem to be more important as that represents where the disc was actually replicated.

Please correct me if I've misunderstood something here, thanks!

[ShellOilJunior]

I watched Revanche last weekend - no issues.

Watched Days of Heaven 2 months ago - no issues.

Monterey Pop, about 3 months ago - no issues

[Hayabusa85]

Originally Posted by jscoggins

Yup, one of the reasons why I don't import. I can get domestic purchases exchanged/replaced easily enough. Not so with intl purchases.

The ones back then would have been purchased in Canada but would still need to deal with Criterion in the US directly for replacements if they do them since they don't have a Canadian branch of the company. So exchanges like I had to do with Walkabout (Why does this movie hate me so much?) were not an issue at least back then. But never saw this problem coming obviously

[Bumblefeet]

Has Criterion responded to this yet?

[rdodolak]

My copy of Ride With the Devil, purchased in Nov 2010, came back 100% good with VSO Inspector.

Mastering SID Code: LB42
Mould SID Code: 10K6

[Arkadin]

uh oh.
some one just posted on Criterionforum.org that their copy of The Web of Death--a Well Go USA bd from 2011--has the same bronzed appearance as the Criterion releases.
first report I have seen of another company's disc being affected.
So it appears this could very well be a problem not just isolated to Criterion, but could involve many different releases from multiple companies; probably all traced back to the same replication plant potentially.

[jscoggins]

Originally Posted by Bumblefeet

Has Criterion responded to this yet?

I will update the OP if they do.

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by neo_reloaded

Just to verify that I'm understanding the SID issue correctly:

There are two IFPI values for the Master, one in the blue ring and one in the gold ring (corresponding to the two layers of these dual-layered BDs). Then there is the Mould IFPI that is on the clear plastic ring, the innermost part of the disc.

And among these two categories, the Mould IFPI value would seem to be more important as that represents where the disc was actually replicated.

Please correct me if I've misunderstood something here, thanks!

Yes, there is a Mastering SID Code for each layer but the mastering code can be the same or different for each layer.

The Mastering SID Codes can be found on the play side where as the Mould SID Code can usually be found on the label side. Some plants seem to use very tiny Mastering SID Codes where as others are much more readable.

[ElliesDad]

Originally Posted by ShellOilJunior

Criterion has made good in the past (Carlos, White, etc.). They'll take care of their consumers.

So the main documented concern seems to be with a half-dozen releases, especially "Summer Hours", "M", "Gomorrah", "Walkabout" and a couple of others, with much of the broader concern based on projection, conjecture, and collector's anxiety.

In the case of "Summer Hours" I can vouch that the issue is real, very clearly-defined, and demonstrable though a number of evidentiary posts, but I'm still confident that Criterion will deal with it appropriately, perhaps by giving a credit if a replacement is impossible? Why they are maintaining silence at this point and not responding to e-mails from concerned consumers on the other hand is odd, and anybody's guess, since this just eventually leads to an "Oh my God, what do they know that they're not telling us" sort of reaction. But Criterion is still a fine, reputable firm with a wonderful product and I'm sure that they and their technicians will identify and deal with the issues here.

I'd cut a little slack toward the folks here who are over-reacting. Collectors are collectors~ by definition there is going to be a degree of zeal involved whether the collection is stamps, fine art, or blu-rays. Everyone is going to be upset in some measure if something in their 'collection' begins to 'rot'. And in a very unsettled, and unsettling, world it's disconcerting to have some small aspect of your life that you thought was pristine and inviolable suddenly become corrupted. On the other hand, it's a blu-ray disc, not a life-crisis...

In describing tinges in regards to disc surfaces, some care should obviously be taken. A disc viewed at night under artificial lighting, in a room with beige walls, will look different when held up by a sunlit window. Just sayin'.

[Brent L.]

Originally Posted by Arkadin

uh oh.
some one just posted on Criterionforum.org that their copy of The Web of Death--a Well Go USA bd from 2011--has the same bronzed appearance as the Criterion releases.
first report I have seen of another company's disc being affected.
So it appears this could very well be a problem not just isolated to Criterion, but could involve many different releases from multiple companies; probably all traced back to the same replication plant potentially.

Can you link to the post/thread in question?

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by Brent L.

Can you link to the post/thread in question?

http://www.criterionforum.org/forum/...494972#p494972

[Dan8700]

Originally Posted by pedromvu

Here is what i found after checking SID codes on various titles, i have yet to check them all:

Mar 24 2009--The 400 Blows--------------L322
Oct 20 2009--Monsooon Wedding---------L021
Jan 26 2010--Paris, Texas-----------------L323
Mar 23 2010--Days of Heaven-------------L323
Apr 20 2010--Vivre sa Vie-----------------LB42
Apr 20 2010--Summer Hours--------------LB42
May 11 2010--M----------------------------LB42
May 18 2010--Walkabout------------------LB42
May 25 2010--Stagecoach-----------------L021
Jun 22 2010--Red Desert------------------L324
Jul 20 2010--Red Shoes-------------------L324
Jul 20 2010--Black Narcissus--------------L324
Jul 27 2010--The Secret of the Grain-----L322
Aug 17 2010--Black Orpheus--------------L325
Mar 25 2014--The Freshman---------------L324

Of all these, the only ones that show browning issue are Summer Hours and Stagecoach, also i started purchasing Criterions from around 2010, but many of the earlier ones i purchased much more recently.

So at least it doesn't appear that all LB42 or L021 are bad, since i checked them chapter by chapter, but now i fear this could mean they will end up getting bad in the future.

Thanks for reporting. It seems you've been lucky with Days of Heaven, Paris Texas and The 400 Blows (which is one of the first titles to have been repressed, I gather). Anyway the Assayas and Walkabout with that code should be rotten, having been reported so more than once (if you can, run a disc test). Vivre Sa vie LB42 has been reported once being not affected.

Originally Posted by tenia

I'm also Speed testing it now and it's also fine (84.2% and 100% green !).

100% ok indeed.

Originally Posted by LPMA

How would one go about checking their discs if they don't have access to a BD drive?

Identifying the codes (see previous page), but it doesn't seem a 100% accurate way to find out. However, a quasi-rule of thumb: a disc with a L32* code on the blue/golden ring means "not first pressing"-->doesn't have any issues.

As I said earlier, I own only three of these and finally checked them all:

Days of Heaven: L324 L325; QWY9 (Mould) - OK
Vivre Sa Vie: L325 L 325; QWY9 (Mould) - OK
Chungking Express: L 325 L 321; QWY8 (mould) - OK

ps. all these "final reports" should be pasted in page 1, imho.

[jscoggins]

This is amazing.

So, Criterion will respond to e-mails about Eraserhead, but they're ignoring or not answering e-mails about these titles.

[pedromvu]

Originally Posted by Dan8700

Thanks for reporting. It seems you've been lucky with Days of Heaven, Paris Texas and The 400 Blows (which is one of the first titles to have been repressed, I gather). Anyway the Assayas and Walkabout with that code should be rotten, having been reported so more than once (if you can, run a disc test). Vivre Sa vie LB42 has been reported once being not affected.

Hi, i have already checked them, they all work fine (except the ones with browning), i guess i have to seen them completely just to be sure, no problem it's been a while since i have seen some of them.

oddly, that Walkabout disc was sent as replacement from Mulvaney, so if it will end up failing, that means they didn't understand the extent of the problem originally.

will report back with a complete list of my findings including mould SID, once i have the time.

[tenia]

Originally Posted by ElliesDad

On the other hand, it's a blu-ray disc, not a life-crisis...

But it represents a certain amount of money which we don't know if it's just lost or if there is a way, not-yet-but-soon-to-be known, to get replacement discs which are unaffected (because nobody wants to get replacements discs that will have the same issue in 4 years ).

And what about the discs made in 2011 ? Will they start to be unreadable next year ? And the 2012 discs in 2016 ?
What about OOP titles such as Pierrot le fou and Chungking Express ?
What about people outside of the USA + Canada ?

These are very practical questions, and while it's certainly not a life-crisis, it could represent (depending on the exact number of discs affected) between $40 and $200 of money waiting to be replaced in a yet-unknown program, within which there could be discs left "rotting" forever due to OOP status.

It is quite a good chunk of money for some.


Anyway, I tried to gather Mould and Masters IFPI, here's what I found (I assume that Mould IFPI is molded in the inner plastic ring and the Master IFPI "printed" in the inner ring on the playable side). I did it without magnifying glass so far so excuse if some are either missing or approximative (my eyes burn now ) :

(Name / Mould / Master)

Kagemusha / 10K7 /
Jimi plays at Monterey / 10K8 /
Monterey Pop / 10K7 /
A Christmas Tale / 10K6 /
Gimme Shelter / 10K7 /
Chungking Express / QWY9 / L321
8 1/2 / 10K6 / LB42
Bigger Than Life / 10K6 / LB42
Days of Heaven / /
Yojimbo / 10K6 / LB42
Sanjuro / 10K6 / LB42
Vivre sa vie / QWY9 / L325
Walkabout / 10K6 / LB42
Stagecoach / 10K6 /
Brakhage Vol 1 / QMY6 ? / L323
Brakhage Vol 2 D1 / QMYM / L324
Brakhage Vol 2 D2 / QWZ2 / L324

And for the fun :
Ride With The Devil / 10K6 / LB42

Now, in terms of tests :

(Name / Visual Aspect / Speed test / Playback)

Kagemusha / OK
Jimi plays at Monterey / OK
Monterey Pop / OK
A Christmas Tale / OK
Gimme Shelter / OK
Chungking Express / OK
8 1/2 / OK
Bigger Than Life / OK
Days of Heaven / OK / Damaged sectors (1% Red + 7% Yellow) / Playback issues on BD-ROM but not on BDT-110 --> I've cleaned the surface of the disc with a bit of cloth and now, it shows no problem of playback on BD-ROM and went through BD-Info with no problem
Yojimbo / OK
Sanjuro / OK
Vivre sa vie / OK
Walkabout / OK / Froze Speed test at 55% (100% green at this stage) / Playback issues on BD-ROM but not on BDT-110
Stagecoach / Freaking Brown
Brakhage Vol 1 / OK
Brakhage Vol 2 D1 / OK
Brakhage Vol 2 D2 / OK

[murphywmm]

I'm quite sure I've seen this bronze colour on other Blu-Ray's in my collection before but it's never affected playback. I will have to take a closer look.

Blu-Ray always seemed like a more durable format to me - I can't remember ever having problems playing one in my 8 years or so with the format. DVD's on the other hand - the slighest scratch would make some of them freeze up. There used to be nothing worse when the picture would stop and I'd hear that "click, click, click" noise of the player trying to read the disc.

[Brian81]

Originally Posted by Spire

Is there more than one printing of some of these anyways? I've wanted to pick up M for more than a year now but maybe it's better I didnt.

If it's not going OOP, you might want to wait it out...