Early Blu-rays that may have playback issues (Criterion, Well Go USA, etc.)

[tedopolous]

Originally Posted by Blu Titan

I read every single post in this thread last night and there's really good info but it appears some might be trying to escalate the discussion by proposing the idea that if one member has a problem with a title that disc is "bad" for all...that is nonsense.

I won't claim one or the other as fact, but I'm not seeing it as far fetched that if some discs have gone bad, other discs from the same batch/pressing have potential to go bad over time too, especially those discs that have the discoloured outer edge but are currently still playable. The findings are all pretty recent, who knows how these discs will be a year or two from now.

I can only speak from my experience with my one brown Criterion disc that now doesn't work, but it played fine last year and there was no brown discolouration on it then. I have a habit of always looking at the data side to check for dust or dirt before I play my discs, and I would definitely have noticed it.

[Partyslammer]

Originally Posted by jscoggins

You have In the Realm of the Senses highlighted, but no one has reported it being unplayable AFAIK. Did I miss a post?

Yesterday on the other AV forum I had a few PMs back and forth with a member there who initially said his ITROTS disc had "rotted" but it turned out that his disc was bronzed but played through with no issues. Thus I revised my list again this morning to reflect that title has not been reported to have any actual playback failures.

[spawningblue]

People have been asking if they have had this issue with discs from other companies. I can confirm I had playback issues on my Drillbit Taylor and Valkyrie discs. One of them had the browning as well, but can't remember which one. None of these had any scratches in the slightest on them. Mind you, these were probably just one off cases, but you may want to check them out.

[bruceames]

I have most of the titles in the list but the only one with bronzing is Walkabout. The movie still plays fine on my Oppo 93, but will give me a read error on the layer change on the PC.

[TheHumanTornado]

Checked my copy of Stagecoach today and it is bubbled/peeling around the edges. Is this the same issue? Can we send them back now or are we still waiting for word? I'm sure this info is somewhere in the thread and I apologize if so.

[jdrouette]

Adding my own data to the digital bonfire:

Criterions:
Walkabout - Obvious bronzing and disc freezes around :51.
M - Obvious bronzing but disc still seems to play fine in spot checks.
Kagemusha - No visible bronzing but disc freezes around 1:21.

All my other Criterion titles seem normal.

Warner Bros.
The Getaway (1972) - Obvious bronzing but disc still seems to play fine in spot checks.

[timothy ramzyk]

Originally Posted by tedopolous

I won't claim one or the other as fact, but I'm not seeing it as far fetched that if some discs have gone bad, other discs from the same batch/pressing have potential to go bad over time too, especially those discs that have the discoloured outer edge but are currently still playable. The findings are all pretty recent, who knows how these discs will be a year or two from now.

That's only a problem if Criterion will only accept returns for a month, but I suspect they will stand behind their product for a reasonable length of time.

I wouldn't blame them for refusing the return of disks that don't currently have playback issues or foxing on the edges, just because maybe someday they might or might not. Particularly since they probably have yet to affirmatively isolate the cause/source.

I'd say give it some time, return what you know is screwed up and don't bust their nuts on what isn't.

For what it's worth, My copies of,

THE RED SHOES
THE MAN WHO FELL TO EARTH
THE THIRD MAN
TE SEVENTH SEAL
THE MAGICIAN
NIGHT OF THE HUNTER
BLACK NARCISSUS
THE SEVENTH SEAL
WINGS OF DESIRE

All booted up and played on a chapter-by-chapter check, including extras.

M had foxing around the edges, and broke up into blocky artifacts when played. It also had a rough textured rim it that's of any use.

[Partyslammer]

Originally Posted by TheHumanTornado

Checked my copy of Stagecoach today and it is bubbled/peeling around the edges. Is this the same issue? Can we send them back now or are we still waiting for word? I'm sure this info is somewhere in the thread and I apologize if so.

First off, you need to actually try to play the disc through on a BD player that you know works fine with other titles. If it locks up, skips or pixilates usually around the halfway mark of the feature, you have a bad disc. Sometimes a funky looking BD will play fine and never fail. It is generally accepted that an abnormal disc like you describe will likely fail at some point if is hasn't already.

Criterion has not yet made a general public announcement how and when they will offer replacement discs but they have indicated to some people via private emails that they will replace those bad discs at some point. They are aware of the problem.

Make sure you even have a problem disc and if so, sit tight and hold on to your disc 'til Criterion announces whatever kind of replacement program they are going to implement.

[tedopolous]

Originally Posted by TheHumanTornado

Checked my copy of Stagecoach today and it is bubbled/peeling around the edges. Is this the same issue? Can we send them back now or are we still waiting for word? I'm sure this info is somewhere in the thread and I apologize if so.

I believe Criterion has said to wait for further instructions.

Originally Posted by timothy ramzyk

I'd say give it some time, return what you know is screwed up and don't bust their nuts on what isn't.

I agree for discs where all is ok and the data surface looks fine, but I'm definitely shipping back any disc, despite working, if they have discolouration along the edge similar to the one I have that has turned bad. I'm not going to trust those discs.

[TheHumanTornado]

Thanks. Sorry forgot to mention, my ps3 won't even read the disc. The top layer of the disc is literally peeling a half an inch in towards the middle.There is no bronzing just peeling. And I hadn't watched or handled the disc yet.

[Brent L.]

When I talked to them on the phone they were adamant about making sure I realized, and when I told people that they realized, that they do NOT want ANYONE sending ANYTHING to them until they are specifically told that it was fine for them to do so.

[Dubliner1]

'Summer Hours' freezes for me around 51:37 secs...disc is very bronzed looking. Played 'Days Of Heaven' twice which has a slight bronzed color but played perfectly...but could deteriorate?...
Currently testing 'Paris,Texas'.

[Dan8700]

Originally Posted by jdrouette

Adding my own data to the digital bonfire:

Criterions:
Walkabout - Obvious bronzing and disc freezes around :51.
M - Obvious bronzing but disc still seems to play fine in spot checks.
Kagemusha - No visible bronzing but disc freezes around 1:21.
.

First report for Kagemusha.

I don't want to know how many faulty discs CC are gonna receive in the next few months, definitely thousands. I hope this won't affect their schedule too much.

[Freeza]

Originally Posted by timothy ramzyk

I wouldn't blame them for refusing the return of disks that don't currently have playback issues or foxing on the edges, just because maybe someday they might or might not. Particularly since they probably have yet to affirmatively isolate the cause/source.

I disagree with this. If it's determined that a specific batch # is faulty, then I see no reason for them not to accept any discs from said # for an exchange, including discs that haven't shown signs of deterioration or playback errors. As others have written, if the issue is a bad pressing, I'm not comfortable owning discs from the affected runs. I don't want to pop one in a year or two down the line just to find out that that's when it decided to go bad. I'd rather just get them all exchanged in one go and be done with it. I honestly don't think they'd have an issue with that either if the discs being exchanged matched the bad batch numbers.

[Freeza]

Originally Posted by TheHumanTornado

Thanks. Sorry forgot to mention, my ps3 won't even read the disc. The top layer of the disc is literally peeling a half an inch in towards the middle.There is no bronzing just peeling. And I hadn't watched or handled the disc yet.

Can you post a photo of that? I've seen it mentioned several times and am curious as to what it looks like. Thanks in advance.

[Holmes]

My Howards End Blu-ray also freezes around an hour and 52 minutes in. This just turns my stomach. One of my favorite films of all-time, and I know the disc is out-of-print now. Damn.

My copy of Walkabout seems fine. No brown/bronze/p*ss-stain sheen. At least not yet.

[timothy ramzyk]

Originally Posted by Freeza

I disagree with this. If it's determined that a specific batch # is faulty, then I see no reason for them not to accept any discs from said # for an exchange, including discs that haven't shown signs of deterioration or playback errors. As others have written, if the issue is a bad pressing, I'm not comfortable owning discs from the affected runs. I don't want to pop one in a year or two down the line just to find out that that's when it decided to go bad. I'd rather just get them all exchanged in one go and be done with it. I honestly don't think they'd have an issue with that either if the discs being exchanged matched the bad batch numbers.

Again, I've seen a lot of sleuths trying to figure this out by numbers, but it doesn't appear to me that the results have been definitive.

Asking a company to take back a disk preemptively, seems pretty premature, especially since they've not put a window on how long they would replace a defective disk.

I agree, if it has brown foxing in the rim, away it goes no matter how well it plays.

[timothy ramzyk]

I'll admit, I'm having a hard time determining if the color of a Blu-ray is overall "warmer" than usual or not. Just as with DVDs, some BDs appear to have a different tint, and if you're not looking at them in completely neutral lighting, they're going to reflect the hue around them.

If I chapter through with no hitch, and there is no foxing, I'm presuming they are currently OK.

[TheHumanTornado]

Heres a pic

https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/127558...2/15235020010/

[Freeza]

Originally Posted by timothy ramzyk

Again, I've seen a lot of sleuths trying to figure this out by numbers, but it doesn't appear to me that the results have been definitive.

Asking a company to take back a disk preemptively, seems pretty premature, especially since they've not put a window on how long they would replace a defective disk.

I agree, if it has brown foxing in the rim, away it goes no matter how well it plays.

From the 30+ minutes I spent on the phone with them yesterday morning, the e-mail sent from the company addressing the issue yesterday afternoon, and the information gathered in just this thread alone, it seems very obvious what the issue was.

As for asking Criterion to take back a disc preemptively, my scenario left nothing preemptive. If they identify a bad batch and my discs fall within that batch then they're defective. Whether the defect has already occurred, or shows itself 3 years down the line is irrelevant. You just open up more possible issues at that rate; cost for the company replacing discs one at a time when the customer has numerous, both in shipping and man hours, loss of consumer confidence, not to mention the potential for titles to go out of print.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not screaming that the sky is falling, but as a Criterion fan that purchases each title shortly after release, if the issue turns out as widespread as to include each title pressed at the plant suspected, I have far too many discs in that run to play the waiting game (not an entitlement comment, rather that it would take forever and repeated annual viewings of said titles to even know they had gone bad). And I'm not the least bit worried that this company would disagree with me. An issue like this you nip in the bud.