Early Blu-rays that may have playback issues (Criterion, Well Go USA, etc.)

[jscoggins]

Originally Posted by grahams76

I bought The Seventh Seal in 2010 and finally got round to watching it last year. It froze about five minutes from the end. I emailed Criterion and a replacement was sent. Last night I found the old faulty blu (I thought I'd binned it) and it has major bronzing. In short, Criterion has known of issues with the disc for awhile as they said it was a known fault when I returned it.

Well, I think this post indicates an increased correlation between bronzing and failure. Even if a disc plays when bronzed, it will fail eventually. Even if an unplayable disc has not bronzed yet, it will bronze eventually.

Originally Posted by GentleGiant

So the question is, with all due respect, where have all you folks who noticed this just now been all this time? When was the last time you watched the faulty BD before checking it and finding it bronzed to hell after this thread was launched? Have you watched it at least once since your initial viewing the day you bought it - in fact, have you watched it at all? Judging by the dates of the first posts reporting the problem, it's obvious that the said issues must have developed much earlier.

So how long exactly did it take the discs to turn from normal to brown/bronzed? How long did it take before actual playback issues started occurring? How often do folks actually watch their Criterion BDs that they don't notice this thing happening?

Be it far from me to offend anyone (being in the same boat as all the rest of you guys), just wondering...

We are doing our best with incomplete information and information scattered across various threads/websites. At other websites, people sometimes simply stopped posting about the issue. Hopefully, this thread will serve as a master thread for any and all disc failures related to bronzing.

Originally Posted by BobbyMcGee

That is one thing that has bothered me about all of this since I learned about this issue a few days ago. That Criterion has been issuing replacement discs for brown Blu-rays for a while now. Over at the Criterionforum people have been talking about this issue since March of 2010 (see link below).

Now, I guess will have to just give them the benefit of the doubt that someone over there never put the puzzle pieces together that this was a MAJOR issue and not a bunch of isolated instances. But to be honest with you, I am skeptical.

Link to thread entitled, "How Now Brown Blu-rays": http://www.criterionforum.org/forum/...hp?f=2&t=13376

The first post in that thread has been updated since 2010. We don't know how many titles have been added since the thread was created, and their list is less comprehensive compared to ours.

Originally Posted by Mr. Thomsen

Just checking my discs superficially, it looks like the only one that may be problematic is Vivre sa vie, which is beginning to brown around the inner edge.

[Judex]

I checked my discs. From the ones with potential bad disc codes.

Pierrot le Fou L021- Visually seems fine.
8 1/2 LB 42 - Visually seems fine.
Bigger than life LB42 - Seems to have very light browning around the inner ring. I tried to take a picture of it, but it isn't showing too well. It's not on the data part at all so, should be ok for now at least.
gommorah L021 - has this on the outer edges. Not check it's playability yet.

[BigManDeath]

Someone earlier in the thread asked if any other company's discs were showing bronzing and it was brought to my attention via facebook that some of Well Go USAs blu-rays were also having this problem. I checked some of my discs, and sure enough a bunch of them are either completely bronzed or have a bronze ring around the outer edge of the disc. WEB OF DEATH (a Shaw Brothers film) and IP MAN 2 are the two I remember, but I haven't tried playing either yet. Once I have time I will go through all my discs and can post a list if anyone is interested. If this belongs in another thread, please let me know. I don't know if Well Go is aware of the issue, but I will most likely contact them once I have thoroughly checked my blu-rays.

[jscoggins]

Originally Posted by BigManDeath

Someone earlier in the thread asked if any other company's discs were showing bronzing and it was brought to my attention via facebook that some of Well Go USAs blu-rays were also having this problem. I checked some of my discs, and sure enough a bunch of them are either completely bronzed or have a bronze ring around the outer edge of the disc. WEB OF DEATH (a Shaw Brothers film) and IP MAN 2 are the two I remember, but I haven't tried playing either yet. Once I have time I will go through all my discs and can post a list if anyone is interested. If this belongs in another thread, please let me know. I don't know if Well Go is aware of the issue, but I will most likely contact them once I have thoroughly checked my blu-rays.

Someone (you, perhaps?) could start a new thread about Well Go USA.

Originally Posted by Judex

gommorah L021 - has this on the outer edges. Not check it's playability yet.

[Show spoiler]

So is it peeling or bronzing? Maybe both?

If it's peeling, I wouldn't try to play it in case any flakes fall off and damage the insides of your BD player.

[Judex]

Originally Posted by jscoggins

Someone (you, perhaps?) could start a new thread about Well Go USA.



So is it peeling or bronzing? Maybe both?

If it's peeling, I wouldn't try to play it in case any flakes fall off and damage the insides of your BD player.

Not bronzing at all. Looks to be peeling, or in the very early stages of it.

[jscoggins]

Originally Posted by Judex

Not bronzing at all. Looks to be peeling, or in the very early stages of it.

Someone else also reported that his Gomorrah is peeling.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...&postcount=555

I've added more info to the OP. I put a note next to each title to indicate if there've been reports of bronzing and/or peeling.

[Brian81]

I don't have any bronzing on my discs, but I do have one or two with that waviness of the aluminum layer near the edge of the disc. My thoughts are that this is not a symptom of the problem, that it's just how the reflective layer was applied on that disc itself.


One thing I'm noticing is that this discussion (on other forums) has brought up the old CD pinhole rot discussion. This was discussed a few years back on Steve Hoffman forums, and discussion of the topic went in the direction that this particular thing was not rot at all, and they were just abnormalities with the pressing of that particular disc. That they don't get any worse than they were initially, and the reason people noticed them was because they checked in a panic of hearing about pinhole rot, when those holes had always been there. Could be completely wrong here, but I never have had an issue with playback from the whole pinhole rot thing, and I have a few CDs that look like they have hundreds of tiny holes.

[ShellOilJunior]

Looks like my Summer Hours blu-ray is hosed. All my other discs seem to be fine (even M).

[Dubliner1]

Originally Posted by gpn

Checked my two titles from the OP, Stagecoach and Walkabout. Stagecoach looks okay, but I'll put it in to be sure. Walkabout on the other hand looked like it had been in an oven and got burnt along the edge and would not even start up when I tried playing it.

I don't have time to sit and watch every disc I own. I start the movie and time it using a stopwatch and come back at the end of the film and see if the time on my bluray player and stopwatch match exactly.

[neo_reloaded]

Does anyone have Howard's End or Pierrot le fou discs that were NOT pressed by Sonopress? I.e., NOT LB** or L0**?

[ShellOilJunior]

Originally Posted by neo_reloaded

Does anyone have Howard's End or Pierrot le fou discs that were NOT pressed by Sonopress? I.e., NOT LB** or L0**?

I own Pierrot (Plays OK). I shall check later and post my findings.

[PGW]

Originally Posted by Brian81

I don't have any bronzing on my discs, but I do have one or two with that waviness of the aluminum layer near the edge of the disc. My thoughts are that this is not a symptom of the problem, that it's just how the reflective layer was applied on that disc itself.


One thing I'm noticing is that this discussion (on other forums) has brought up the old CD pinhole rot discussion. This was discussed a few years back on Steve Hoffman forums, and discussion of the topic went in the direction that this particular thing was not rot at all, and they were just abnormalities with the pressing of that particular disc. That they don't get any worse than they were initially, and the reason people noticed them was because they checked in a panic of hearing about pinhole rot, when those holes had always been there. Could be completely wrong here, but I never have had an issue with playback from the whole pinhole rot thing, and I have a few CDs that look like they have hundreds of tiny holes.

It's off-topic, but I've had the opposite experience. I had several CDs with hundreds of pin-holes and was always amazed they played fine. A few years later, the same discs wouldn't play at all (or even rip).

[drobswim13]

Originally Posted by Dubliner1

I don't have time to sit and watch every disc I own. I start the movie and time it using a stopwatch and come back at the end of the film and see if the time on my bluray player and stopwatch match exactly.

Seems like a decent idea. Might have to try that myself.

By the way, if you could convince the Hammers to give back Jenkinson from loan because of our injury problems, that'd be great. Thanks!!

[bwdowiak]

Originally Posted by GentleGiant

So the question is, with all due respect, where have all you folks who noticed this just now been all this time? When was the last time you watched the faulty BD before checking it and finding it bronzed to hell after this thread was launched? Have you watched it at least once since your initial viewing the day you bought it - in fact, have you watched it at all? Judging by the dates of the first posts reporting the problem, it's obvious that the said issues must have developed much earlier.

So how long exactly did it take the discs to turn from normal to brown/bronzed? How long did it take before actual playback issues started occurring? How often do folks actually watch their Criterion BDs that they don't notice this thing happening?

Be it far from me to offend anyone (being in the same boat as all the rest of you guys), just wondering...

I understand what you are saying 100% and echo the same sentiment. I'm skeptical of the assumption that it is "a MAJOR problem," as some have indicated.

there should be two separate things gauged here: the severity of the problem and how loud the voices are of those who are crying foul.

as I mentioned in an earlier post, the thread on the Criterion Forum web site did not have a single post between November of 2013 and September of 2014. so you have a "problem" that has always existed. yet something someone said recently has caused this issue to gain the recent steam that it has. I don't know what that was.

granted, there are some (*some) who have come back and reported playback issues, but there are many others with enormous collections who are reporting that either a) all is ok or b) the only real problems they have are with the previously identified problem discs.

[GxyExpress999]

I spot checked the OOP titles (The Third Man, Pierrot le Fou, Howards End etc.) and found no bronzing/playing issues so far.

[Dubliner1]

Originally Posted by drobswim13

Seems like a decent idea. Might have to try that myself.

By the way, if you could convince the Hammers to give back Jenkinson from loan because of our injury problems, that'd be great. Thanks!!

If you can have him back to us after the Chelsea game on Sunday for our 4:15pm kickoff then ok

[Reeniop5]

Originally Posted by jscoggins

]
According to the alphanumeric codes on the discs, it appears that most of the bad discs were manufactured by Sonopress (aka Arvato Digital Services). Look for codes starting with L0 or LB.

Here's a list of all titles that were released at the same time as the above:

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...5&postcount=68

Are the codes starting with LO or LB found on the underside of the discs itself? Most of my Blus starts with BV. Thanks for clarifying.

[No Name]

Just got an email update regarding this issue:

Hello and thank you for your email.

We have confirmed that certain Blu-ray discs pressed at a replication facility that we used for a period in 2010 have become defective, showing a noticeable bronze discoloration on the underside and developing playback problems. We have confirmed the problem on seven titles, but not on all copies. All of these titles have since been re-pressed at a different pressing plant, and the vast majority of discs in circulation should not be affected.

The potentially affected Blu-ray titles are:

SUMMER HOURS
WALKABOUT
PARIS, TEXAS
M
THE SEVENTH SEAL
PIERROT LE FOU
HOWARDS END

If you have found that your Blu-ray copy of one of these titles does not play, please send your disc in to the following address for a replacement:

Jon Mulvaney
The Criterion Collection
215 Park Avenue South
5th floor
New York, NY 10003

Please include only your disc -- no packaging -- along with the address to which you'd like us to mail your replacement. We will not be replacing or exchanging packaging. There is no need to email us in addition.

If we learn that other titles are similarly defective, we will add them to the list and continue to replace them as well.

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

So if you have an OOP title, no need to fear.

[jscoggins]

Originally Posted by No Name

Just got an email update regarding this issue:

[Show spoiler]Hello and thank you for your email.

We have confirmed that certain Blu-ray discs pressed at a replication facility that we used for a period in 2010 have become defective, showing a noticeable bronze discoloration on the underside and developing playback problems. We have confirmed the problem on seven titles, but not on all copies. All of these titles have since been re-pressed at a different pressing plant, and the vast majority of discs in circulation should not be affected.

The potentially affected Blu-ray titles are:

SUMMER HOURS
WALKABOUT
PARIS, TEXAS
M
THE SEVENTH SEAL
PIERROT LE FOU
HOWARDS END

If you have found that your Blu-ray copy of one of these titles does not play, please send your disc in to the following address for a replacement:

Jon Mulvaney
The Criterion Collection
215 Park Avenue South
5th floor
New York, NY 10003

Please include only your disc -- no packaging -- along with the address to which you'd like us to mail your replacement. We will not be replacing or exchanging packaging. There is no need to email us in addition.

If we learn that other titles are similarly defective, we will add them to the list and continue to replace them as well.

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

So if you have an OOP title, no need to fear.

Wow, they're actually going to replace Howards End and Pierrot le fou?

[Mizu_Ger]

I checked some of my disks again in daylight and found that The Seventh Seal has bronzing around the edge. I tried to backup the disk, but it failed at 48%. Everything else looks fine so far.

I've already sent them an email, so I'll see what happens.