Spears & Munsil 4K UHD HDR Benchmark (Test Discs) May 15, 2023

[TbeRw01]

sorry i wasnt clear. I'm not talking about on the Display side but on the Dolby algo side that generate metadata.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

Absolute and relative don't work at all in DVLL, which is by design.

I’d noticed, it’s why I didn’t say anything about those modes.

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

I don't know what the black bar issue was, never asked Dolby about it.

Check page 12 of the current best practice guide for Dobly Vision grading, IMPORTANT NOTE 3 says

Avoid using positive values over 0.025 on the LIFT trim control for letterboxed content. (Negative Lift values are acceptable on all versions). The
current implementation on Ultra HD Blu-ray devices apply the Trims to the entire image area, including the letterbox blanking area, to allow subtitles to appear over them. If the scene contains positive Lift values over 0.025, this may cause the letterboxed area to have elevated black levels during playback.

(I incorrectly referenced the negative value in the other thread, it’s the positive value that should be avoided.)

[Stacey Spears]

I wonder if the Lift of 0.025 only applies if you don't use the letterbox feature to exclude the bars from the calculation. Or if the letterbox feature does not work correctly on BD. We used it for the one shot we letterboxed.

Given that the BD SDK was last updated around the time OPPO added DV support, it is probably another bug in the BD SDK. Had I been aware of that, I could have created a test for that too.

[TbeRw01]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

(I incorrectly referenced the negative value in the other thread, it’s the positive value that should be avoided.)

right . They can use the dolby metafier to verify/fix if the trims have lift.

Copyright (c) 2013-2023 Dolby Laboratories, Inc. All Rights Reserved
05/15/2023/14:35:41.765000000 Metadata: Validation Summary:
=========================
Metadata version: "4.0.2"
Level254 CMVersion: 4 1
Aspect Ratios (Canvas - Image): 1.77778 - 2.38806
Frame Rate: 23.976fps
Mastering Monitor: 1000-nit, P3, D65, ST.2084, Full (ID 20): Bit Depth: 16bit - Diagonal: 42.00in - Application Type: ALL - Color Info: "pq(0.0001,1000) rgb computer p3d65"
Mastering Monitor Validation Test: PASS
Target Displays Validation Test: PASS
Level6 (MaxFALL - MaxCLL): 0.00 - 0.00
Color Encoding: "pq(0,10000) rgb computer p3d65"
Color Encoding Validation Test: PASS
Overlapping Shots Validation Test: PASS
Gap between Shots Validation Test: PASS
Negative Shot duration Validation Test: PASS
Per-Frame Data out-of-range Validation Test: PASS
Number of Shots: 2646
Frame Range: 86400-287989
L2 Trim Count (TargetID, count): (1, 2646) (27, 2646) (48, 2646)
L8 Trim Count (TargetID, count): (1, 2646)
L1 Metadata Validation Test: PASS
L2 Metadata Validation Test: PASS
L3 Metadata Validation Test: PASS
L8 Metadata Validation Test: PASS
L9 Metadata Validation Test: PASS
=========================
05/15/2023/14:35:41.765000000 Metadata: WARNING List of WARNINGS:
=========================
WARNING: Positive Level2 lift value at shot: UniqueID = a59ca39b-8397-46f9-9703-f5f8f76d13ba @[86400-87166]
WARNING: Positive Level2 lift value at shot: UniqueID = 4d7a426c-e965-41f6-a6a7-3719fe38aa92 @[87167-89497]
WARNING: Positive Level2 lift value at shot: UniqueID = 3a8383cc-bfc8-4ef8-9bca-a399865f4789 @[89498-89498]
WARNING: Positive Level2 lift value at shot: UniqueID = a9279407-6917-41ea-a36b-6846f35fd4c9 @[89499-89508]

WARNING: 2646 Shots contain identical Level8 values
=========================
05/15/2023/14:35:41.797000000 metafier: No issues found in the Metadata

Copyright (c) 2013-2023 Dolby Laboratories, Inc. All Rights Reserved
05/11/2023/22:23:01.246000000 Metadata: Validation Summary:
=========================
Metadata version: "4.0.2"
Level254 CMVersion: 4 1
Aspect Ratios (Canvas - Image): 1.77778 - 1.77778
Frame Rate: 23.976fps
Mastering Monitor: 1000-nits, P3, D65, ST.2084, Full (ID 20): Bit Depth: 16bit - Diagonal: 42.00in - Application Type: ALL - Color Info: "pq(0.0001,1000) rgb computer p3d65"
Mastering Monitor Validation Test: PASS
Target Displays Validation Test: PASS
Level6 (MaxFALL - MaxCLL): 0.00 - 0.00
Color Encoding: "pq(0,10000) rgb computer bt2020"
Color Encoding Validation Test: PASS
Overlapping Shots Validation Test: PASS
Gap between Shots Validation Test: PASS
Negative Shot duration Validation Test: PASS
Per-Frame Data out-of-range Validation Test: PASS
Number of Shots: 1582
Frame Range: 0-164402
L2 Trim Count (TargetID, count): (1, 1582) (27, 1581) (28, 1) (48, 1581) (49, 1)
L8 Trim Count (TargetID, count): (1, 1581) (48, 70)
L1 Metadata Validation Test: PASS
L2 Metadata Validation Test: PASS
L3 Metadata Validation Test: PASS
L8 Metadata Validation Test: PASS
L9 Metadata Validation Test: PASS
=========================
05/11/2023/22:23:01.246000000 Metadata: WARNING List of WARNINGS:
=========================
WARNING: Level9 not matching mastering display at shot: UniqueID = 3844e8bb-1117-4b08-87c2-020b722bf836 @[160611-164402] use --reset-displays to set all Level9 to the mastering display
WARNING: 40 Shots contain identical Level1 values
WARNING: 40 Shots contain identical Level2 values
WARNING: 160 Shots contain identical Level8 values
=========================
05/11/2023/22:23:01.246000000 metafier: No issues found in the Metadata

--with-lift Adds additional check for positive L2 or L8 lift values above 0.025 when used wit h --validate for letterbox content (default: false)
--with-zero-lift Adds additional check for positive L2 or L8 lift values above 0.0 when used with --validate for letterbox content (default: false)
--clamp-all-lift-to-zero Clamp All Lift To Zero (default: false)
--clamp-l2-lift-to-zero Clamp L2 Lift To Zero (default: false)
--clamp-l8-lift-to-zero Clamp L8 Lift To Zero (default: false)

[TbeRw01]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

I wonder if the Lift of 0.025 only applies if you don't use the letterbox feature to exclude the bars from the calculation.

It applies to any content with letterbox regardless of your project black bars exclusion. It works this way because L5 metadata are ignored on bluray players and the tone mapping is applied to the whole image (letterbox included).

Only when your content doesn't have letterbox, then you can lift the trims as much as you want. And Dolby Always recommend to set proper blanking otherwise your min_pq will always be 0 which will be incorrect.

[RocShemp]

Since my copy arrived yesterday, I immediately started playing around with it. I may not be as savvy as most here but I did notice an odd quirk on my LG C2. When using the brightness adjustment pattern on DV, no matter how high I raise the brightness, I only see the two brightest black bars. Even the checkerboard pattern is non-existent. Switching to HDR10, I still cannot get the two darkest bars but the checkerboard pattern now exists. The pattern works exactly as I'd expect when I switch to the SDR disc, however. Is this normal? Or is there something wrong with my C2?

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by RocShemp

Since my copy arrived yesterday, I immediately started playing around with it. I may not be as savvy as most here but I did notice an odd quirk on my LG C2. When using the brightness adjustment pattern on DV, no matter how high I raise the brightness, I only see the two brightest black bars. Even the checkerboard pattern is non-existent. Switching to HDR10, I still cannot get the two darkest bars but the checkerboard pattern now exists. The pattern works exactly as I'd expect when I switch to the SDR disc, however. Is this normal? Or is there something wrong with my C2?

You will never see the two bars on the left in HDR, only SDR. HDR will always expand 64-940 back to 0-1019. It is by design with HDR.

The checkerboard should be almost impossible to see. In order to even see that, you have to adjust the shadow detail adjustment in Calman using the DR Low pattern. By default HDR10 shows way too much on the brightness and DR Low patterns. It too will be correct once you use Calman to correct HDR10. It also requires shadow detail adjust using Calman after the 1D LUT calibration.

The dark part of the checkerboard is 0 cd/m² and the bright part is 0.000565731 cd/m², which is actually the darkest black on a Pulsar. Once you use Calman to adjust HDR10 and DV + shadow detail, the two should match fairly well. You can see it in SDR since gamma 2.4 makes it much less dark.

The checkerboard is only for use on a DLP. Dither should be gone on the level 16/64 and present on the 17/68. It was used for SDR.

The measurement from black to the first point above black is not fine enough. The shadow detail adjustment is a manual adjustment using a loupe and the DR Low pattern, which makes a tweak to the 1D LUT. No other way to adjust that is exposed by default. Last I recall this adjustment is not exposed until after you do a full 1D LUT cal. LGs have always had this discrepancy between DV and HDR10 out of the box.

[panasonicst60]

I normally use REW to check all my levels after Dirac. But with REW only the base layer can be checked. If you get creative you can do it on REW, but it's nice to have Spears disc to check them easy now. I haven't got a chance to take a deep dive on the video side of things, but I'm sure it's great. However on the disc, it is still missing the wide channels which is a bit disappointing. Wondering wide channels where left off?

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by panasonicst60

I normally use REW to check all my levels after Dirac. But with REW only the base layer can be checked. If you get creative you can do it on REW, but it's nice to have Spears disc to check them easy now. I haven't got a chance to take a deep dive on the video side of things, but I'm sure it's great. However on the disc, it is still missing the wide channels which is a bit disappointing. Wondering wide channels where left off?

The wide channels are present. Switch base to 9.1 and the wides show up on the base layer tests. Assuming this is what you are talking about.

The Atmos tests had to be encoded by Dolby. The commercially available Atmos encoder does not have the ability to do what we needed. At the time of creation, 2.0 of the renderer was available. At that time, sound bars and displays started using 2.0 while AVRs/SSPs were still on 1.0. There was a change that altered the levels between 1.0 and 2.0. Dolby had to use special metadata that is supposed to make them produce the proper levels on both versions for calibration.

Marc worked directly with Dolby when creating the DAMFs for all of the channels.

[cheez avenger]

My set arrived today!

[RocShemp]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

You will never see the two bars on the left in HDR, only SDR. HDR will always expand 64-940 back to 0-1019. It is by design with HDR.

The checkerboard should be almost impossible to see. In order to even see that, you have to adjust the shadow detail adjustment in Calman using the DR Low pattern. By default HDR10 shows way too much on the brightness and DR Low patterns. It too will be correct once you use Calman to correct HDR10. It also requires shadow detail adjust using Calman after the 1D LUT calibration.

The dark part of the checkerboard is 0 cd/m² and the bright part is 0.000565731 cd/m², which is actually the darkest black on a Pulsar. Once you use Calman to adjust HDR10 and DV + shadow detail, the two should match fairly well. You can see it in SDR since gamma 2.4 makes it much less dark.

The checkerboard is only for use on a DLP. Dither should be gone on the level 16/64 and present on the 17/68. It was used for SDR.

The measurement from black to the first point above black is not fine enough. The shadow detail adjustment is a manual adjustment using a loupe and the DR Low pattern, which makes a tweak to the 1D LUT. No other way to adjust that is exposed by default. Last I recall this adjustment is not exposed until after you do a full 1D LUT cal. LGs have always had this discrepancy between DV and HDR10 out of the box.

Thanks. I was worried my TV was busted or something. But it is good to know that it can still be adjusted nonetheless.

[J.P. Samson]

I ordered my copy of the 2023 edition of the S&M 4K UHD Benchmark from a Canadian reseller (MediaLight Canada). Bought on Monday, arrived a day later on Tuesday (today). Neatly and tightly packed in a plastic dual-walled bubble mailer. Turns out they are located in the same city as me (Edmonton, Alberta). Guess I need not have splurged on the expedited shipping as standard post would have been just as fast! So if anyone in Canada was looking for a copy, this is a good option.

JP

[Bodyslide]

Got mine today, now I need to remember how to use it. Plan on watching a few Demos from Disc 2 and then recalibrate my setup. Thanks again for the Amazing product.

[Stacey Spears]

Please don't hesitate to ask any questions. I know some like to PM, but if you ask on here, then others can also benefit from the answers.

We did an interview today with AV Nirvana. Tomorrow, at 1PM PST, we are doing a live steam with Classy Tech Calibrations on YouTube. It will be Don, David M and myself. I think another YouTuber, FOMO, will join in as well.

Right now we are trying to setup interviews with different people who contributed to the disc. Those will be once a week at most. We hope to start those later in June.

I think the next interview is June 4th.

Geoff, we added a new element to the Scaling test patterns based on the moire that shows up on the venetian blinds in Captain America when you enable the Edge feature on the Panasonic 820 and 9000. It is a small section from a zone plate. There is some moire by default on the HDR versions, but it gets noticeably worse when you enable edge. I believe it was you that pointed that out. Sorry if it was someone else.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

Please don't hesitate to ask any questions. I know some like to PM, but if you ask on here, then others can also benefit from the answers.

We did an interview today with AV Nirvana. Tomorrow, at 1PM PST, we are doing a live steam with Classy Tech Calibrations on YouTube. It will be Don, David M and myself. I think another YouTuber, FOMO, will join in as well.

Right now we are trying to setup interviews with different people who contributed to the disc. Those will be once a week at most. We hope to start those later in June.

I think the next interview is June 4th.

Geoff, we added a new element to the Scaling test patterns based on the moire that shows up on the venetian blinds in Captain America when you enable the Edge feature on the Panasonic 820 and 9000. It is a small section from a zone plate. There is some moire by default on the HDR versions, but it gets noticeably worse when you enable edge. I believe it was you that pointed that out. Sorry if it was someone else.

Yep, it was me.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital

Well colour me convinced... I've ordered the disc from the Carmarthen based distributor. Total cost £41.90 (including £2.95 p&p)

The 'three disc' extravaganza has just been delivered by Royal Mail

[Sledgehamma]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

Please don't hesitate to ask any questions. I know some like to PM, but if you ask on here, then others can also benefit from the answers.

We did an interview today with AV Nirvana. Tomorrow, at 1PM PST, we are doing a live steam with Classy Tech Calibrations on YouTube. It will be Don, David M and myself. I think another YouTuber, FOMO, will join in as well.

Right now we are trying to setup interviews with different people who contributed to the disc. Those will be once a week at most. We hope to start those later in June.

I think the next interview is June 4th.

Geoff, we added a new element to the Scaling test patterns based on the moire that shows up on the venetian blinds in Captain America when you enable the Edge feature on the Panasonic 820 and 9000. It is a small section from a zone plate. There is some moire by default on the HDR versions, but it gets noticeably worse when you enable edge. I believe it was you that pointed that out. Sorry if it was someone else.

Here is the with Classy Tech Calibrations:
https://www.youtube.com/live/jYKMqjv1xQ4?feature=share

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by Sledgehamma

Here is the with Classy Tech Calibrations:
https://www.youtube.com/live/jYKMqjv1xQ4?feature=share

Thank you for posting. We mentioned Geoff in the stream. We also pointed out the ADL changes, which came from feedback here.

[Staying Salty]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

Thank you for posting. We mentioned Geoff in the stream...

Who are we kidding, Geoff already wears custom headphones...

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Staying Salty

Who are we kidding, Geoff already wears custom headphones...

Two and a half hours?! I literally don’t have the time to watch it (though I did just leave a comment on one of Stacey’s comments ), I hope they said something nice - well, after saying “who the hell is Geoff?” first of all.