Spears & Munsil 4K UHD HDR Benchmark (Test Discs) May 15, 2023

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by austinJerry

I have just received my disk! I will be using the disk on a setup that consists of a Sony XBR75Z9F, a Marantz 8802a (with all video processing turned off), and an Oppo UDP203. Given the various video output settings on the Oppo, can someone recommend the proper settings when using the S&M disk?

My current settings are:

- HDR Auto
- Target luminance 300nits
- DV processing Auto
- Output resolution Custom
- Custom resolution UHD Auto
- Color space Auto
- Color depth Auto

Thanks!

If you're watching an actual HDR image output from the OPPO then target luminance has precisely zero effect, it's for the SDR conversion modes only.

Those are the best settings to start with though, the point of discs like S&M is to check how the resolution, chroma, motion patterns etc are shaping up, and changing your bit depth, colour space to see what difference the other settings make, if any. That's what I LOVE about the OPPO, being able to change all that on the fly makes this level of nerdery so much easier. (I do wish they'd put a simple "Dolby Vision On/off" toggle in there though, I mean the Panny can do it!)

When I get my disc I'm gonna be checking the OPPO, the Sony X800 and the Panny 420.

[austinJerry]

Thanks for the feedback, Geoff.

Well, I have browsed the disk contents. I am used to being able to press the up arrow to get tips on how to use/interpret the current pattern. No such functionality on this disk. It seems as if the disk was designed for users who are completely familiar with how to use the various patterns, which unfortunately does not describe me.

The Windows patterns are interesting. I suspect they will allow me to assess my current calibration using HDR patterns. I am currently relying on CalMAN Autocalibration for SDR, which, according to Sony, maps settings to HDR automatically. I have not had a way to verify this, so perhaps the S&M Windows patterns will allow me to do so. I am hoping there will be some discussion on how to make this assessment.

If I am correct, we can expect some documentation to be forthcoming at some time in the future that will help us to understand how to use the various test patterns?

[Geoff D]

You could do worse than take your SDR white balance calibration numbers and just manually transpose them into HDR, the Sony's are good like that. I did separate calibrations of SDR and HDR using separate patterns on the ZD9 and ended up with the same white balance settings on each.

[Scorsese]

Originally Posted by jibucha

answer :: without a question/reservation (all displays)
LG SJ (Nano Cell) - - - definitely (actually a remarkable display)

Great! Will probably order the disc soon then.

[p5browne]

Originally Posted by ROSS.T.G.

Oof, just checked Amazon.ca. $64, I paid $25 for the 2nd addition.

$65 for the disc.
$400 for a new meter
$220 to upgrade my CalMan.

I think I paid $400 after taxes for my first meter and CalMan basic.

I wonder if this is a Third party bringing them in from the USA to make a quick kill?
$39.95 in the USA, should translate to about $49.95 to $54.95 in Canada.

[austinJerry]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

You could do worse than take your SDR white balance calibration numbers and just manually transpose them into HDR, the Sony's are good like that. I did separate calibrations of SDR and HDR using separate patterns on the ZD9 and ended up with the same white balance settings on each.

Good to know, Geoff, that is what I had hoped.

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by austinJerry

I have just received my disk! I will be using the disk on a setup that consists of a Sony XBR75Z9F, a Marantz 8802a (with all video processing turned off), and an Oppo UDP203. Given the various video output settings on the Oppo, can someone recommend the proper settings when using the S&M disk?

My current settings are:

- HDR Auto
- Target luminance 300nits
- DV processing Auto
- Output resolution Custom
- Custom resolution UHD Auto
- Color space Auto
- Color depth Auto

Thanks!

I would use the color space eval pattern under video setup to figure out color space and color depth. Once you have done that, then Scaling and Scaling HD for custom resolution of UHD Auto vs. Source Direct.

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by monroef

With your last disc, I saved the disc to an ISO and used MrMC to play it on my Apple TV. Not sure if this method is influences any of the patterns though.

Does that actually allow you to navigate the menu system?

[monroef]

If you pick the correct media playing software. MrMC will do it.

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by austinJerry

Thanks for the feedback, Geoff.

Well, I have browsed the disk contents. I am used to being able to press the up arrow to get tips on how to use/interpret the current pattern. No such functionality on this disk. It seems as if the disk was designed for users who are completely familiar with how to use the various patterns, which unfortunately does not describe me.

The Windows patterns are interesting. I suspect they will allow me to assess my current calibration using HDR patterns. I am currently relying on CalMAN Autocalibration for SDR, which, according to Sony, maps settings to HDR automatically. I have not had a way to verify this, so perhaps the S&M Windows patterns will allow me to do so. I am hoping there will be some discussion on how to make this assessment.

If I am correct, we can expect some documentation to be forthcoming at some time in the future that will help us to understand how to use the various test patterns?

You can look at all the second edition articles on our website today. Those are all being updated for this edition and should be up in a couple of weeks. Then within a couple of months, we will have a full manual.

This time around the up arrow is used for configuration settings.

The Window section matches the HDR Verification workflow in CalMAN. (Minus 709 in 2020).

[ROSS.T.G.]

Originally Posted by p5browne

I wonder if this is a Third party bringing them in from the USA to make a quick kill?
$39.95 in the USA, should translate to about $49.95 to $54.95 in Canada.

Yep, 3rd party. I’ll keep an eye open for a cheaper price.

[Scenic Labs]

MediaLight Canada is the seller and they are our Canadian distribution partner.

You will find a cheaper price from their website (once added) at biaslighting.ca.

For some reason, the 2nd Edition was classified as "electronics" on Amazon.ca. The UHD version is properly classified as Blu-ray and the Amazon selling fee is considerably higher. After paying import duties, their pricing is on par with what other dealers are charging.

What about customs duties in Europe?

The European distributors don't have any import duties because the discs are manufactured by SonyDADC Austria. This is the first time where there's a considerable cost advantage to European customers in terms of duties.

The duties into the USA are not as onerous, so we just absorb them.

Now, if you want to talk about duties I can tell you about the havoc that the 25% China duties are wreaking on our bias lighting business. We had to increase our USA prices by 5% when it became clear it's not ending anytime soon.

Jason

Originally Posted by ROSS.T.G.

Yep, 3rd party. I’ll keep an eye open for a cheaper price.

[p5browne]

Originally Posted by Scenic Labs

MediaLight Canada is the seller and they are our Canadian distribution partner.

You will find a cheaper price from their website (once added) at biaslighting.ca.

For some reason, the 2nd Edition was classified as "electronics" on Amazon.ca. The UHD version is properly classified as Blu-ray and the Amazon selling fee is considerably higher. After paying import duties, their pricing is on par with what other dealers are charging.

What about customs duties in Europe?

The European distributors don't have any import duties because the discs are manufactured by SonyDADC Austria. This is the first time where there's a considerable cost advantage to European customers in terms of duties.

The duties into the USA are not as onerous, so we just absorb them.

Now, if you want to talk about duties I can tell you about the havoc that the 25% China duties are wreaking on our bias lighting business. We had to increase our USA prices by 5% when it became clear it's not ending anytime soon.

Jason

Biaslighting.ca

Your search for 'spears & munsil' has returned no results. Same for Scenic Labs, even tried just UHD. Nothing but bias lighting in their product list.

[Geoff D]

Ordered @ amazon.co.uk.

[sapiendut]

I ordered mine through @Robert Zohn, I can’t wait for Amazon.ca to post it on the selling page.

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by Scarriere

When the link goes live, could Amazon.ca be an option?

Good thing I ordered from Robert Zohn (Value Electronics), it’s US$40 from him and it’s C$70 then PLUS HST from amazon.ca. I ended up spending about C$20 less by buying through Value Electronics.

[Scenic Labs]

It's listed on MediaLight Canada for $54.95 with free shipping, which is ~$41.50 at today's exchange rate. It's virtually the same price as we charge in the USA.

https://biaslighting.ca/products/spe...d-blu-ray-disc

I'm trying to see if there is a way to help bring the Amazon price down, but the fee there is about $10 CAD compared to the 2nd edition which is only about $3. According to their recommendations, sellers are supposed to base their selling price on their total landed cost. So, using the Amazon.ca calculator, it looks like the Amazon price is doing just that.

To clarify, we are not the sellers there. MediaLight Canada is a separate entity but they provide customer service and support for our products in Canada (same sort of arrangement as Australia and UK, which are under license). They focus on the tax requirements and abiding by local laws, etc.

When we used to just lob copies over the border into Amazon Canada we weren't quite paying taxes on it the right way and we ended up getting schooled. We probably undercharged for a while with the 1st and 2nd editions. Now, we let the locals deal with the byzantine reporting requirements.

Originally Posted by p5browne

Biaslighting.ca

Your search for 'spears & munsil' has returned no results. Same for Scenic Labs, even tried just UHD. Nothing but bias lighting in their product list.

[Scenic Labs]

One more note to Canadiens:

You might notice that if you order one disc, shipping is free and anything more than that is $15+ CAD.

No, Gord didn't go crazy. Welcome to one of the joys of Canada Post. Anything that can fit in a mail slot can be sent as a letter. Anything thicker and it needs to go out as XpressPost His rates are the actual Canada Post price with no additional markup.

To clarify, if you order with free shipping in Canada from MediaLight Canada, you are getting the complete packaging. They are not just sending the disc in a mailer.
The dimensions of the UHD BD case qualify for the lower rate. Two cases and above do not and the shipping cost is about 5x as much.

Until units are received at Amazon.ca, the same people are fulfilling both Amazon orders and MediaLight Canada orders.

Similarly, we're still fulfilling Amazon USA orders because until it's in all of their DCs, we can get it to you faster.

[sapiendut]

Yeah, shipping from Canuckistan is mighty expensive. Over 100 grammes, pay an arm a leg. Thicker than a bluray case? pay an arm and a leg. How can we compete when shipping from the US is cheaper than from within Canada? Heck my publisher sent me a cheque from Montreal and it took 5 business days to arrive. Another publisher sent a cheque from the US, it arrives in 3 business days. Yet another publisher sent a cheque from downtown, a 2 hour drive during rush hour), it took 10 business days to arrive.

[Scenic Labs]

I'll see if Gord can set up a way to split an order into multiple shipments to reduce shipping, but the easiest method now is the just order a few times to get free shipping if you needed more than one disc.

USA is the opposite. I'm often looking to combine orders from the same person to reduce the shipping expense. For Canada, it's cheaper to waste more packing supplies. Only in North America!

Originally Posted by sapiendut

Yeah, shipping from Canuckistan is mighty expensive. Over 100 grammes, pay an arm a leg. Thicker than a bluray case? pay an arm and a leg. How can we compete when shipping from the US is cheaper than from within Canada? Heck my publisher sent me a cheque from Montreal and it took 5 business days to arrive. Another publisher sent a cheque from the US, it arrives in 3 business days. Yet another publisher sent a cheque from downtown, a 2 hour drive during rush hour), it took 10 business days to arrive.