Spears & Munsil 4K UHD HDR Benchmark (Test Discs) May 15, 2023

[Pagey123]

If there's ever a true zombie apocalypse, I desperately want to ride it out in Robert's store. Kid in a candy store!

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

Does anyone have a DTS:X system at home? If so, what is your speaker configuration?

We have 7.2.4 sound in the home theater with speaker placement per Dolby's recommendation using 4 overheads. The AVP does DTS:X and I have it setup to use it.

I know a few other members here that have immersive audio setups (Atmos & DTS:X). IIRC, member gotmule has 8 REL subs.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by Pagey123

If there's ever a true zombie apocalypse, I desperately want to ride it out in Robert's store. Kid in a candy store!

The Catskill Mountains is in our travel bucket list and if we get to go I would like to checkout Robert’s store as well.

[GREM]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

The montage has a lot of artifacts in DVLL that are not present in DV tunneled (TV-led) or in HDR10. I have called out the shots here where you can see the artifacts: https://www.dropbox.com/s/4q44gk2244...pare.xlsx?dl=0

Sony UBP-X700 + Bravia XF90
Shot 25
I see some ugly noise on the blue sky in both FEL and MEL versions
HDR version is clean.

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

Does anyone have a DTS:X system at home? If so, what is your speaker configuration?

I have an AVR compatible with Atmos and DTS:X. 7.1.4 scheme. Speaker placement is done according to Dolby recommended layout.

[Geoff D]

And yet while I see some of those artefacts on the ZD9 the noise in the centre of the feather is cleaned up nicely in Dobly (either flavour) vs the HDR10.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

I may go ahead and then match the same layouts for DTS:X as Atmos. The encoder supports up to 24 channels. Some additional info can be found here. https://westlakepro.com/product/dtsx-creator-suite/

From my understanding, standard home DTS: X encoding is limited to static 11.1 (7.1.4), or IMAX Enhanced DTS:X at a static 12.1 (7.1.5) for the added Center Height channel.

The way DTS gets around this lack of pannable/scalable 3D object encoding support with home DTS:X is the matrix upmixing built within DTS:X Pro decoders for newer >7.1.4 receivers and pre-amps (probably a variation on Neural: X center extraction matrixing techniques to fill in the speaker gaps of their 32 speaker output layout).

The Front Wide speaker outputs, for example, are matrix derived in DTS: X, not discrete "channels" per se based on discrete object activity as with a properly designed and encoded (non static) Dolby Atmos track.

I don't know if this information helps you or not in the final analysis of the included audio tracks for these new test discs.

[Balling]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

I may further update it to just put the X in the FEL and not in the BL, this way HDR10 does not show the X either.

YOU CAN DO THAT? wow, please do. Please understand that LG CX is not able to decode FEL internally though, while C9 can (we did tests mixing fel from one movie to another movie BL).

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally Posted by Balling

Please understand that LG CX is not able to decode FEL internally though, while C9 can (we did tests mixing fel from one movie to another movie BL).

In the .mp4 container?

[GREM]

Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital

In the .mp4 container?

Yes, mp4.
This is a nice test to check if player utilize FEL or not
Players based on MediaTek and some Amlogic SoCs - yep
Realtek, Tegra - nope

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

Do you know if the x700 is using MediaTek like the 800M2?

Both are based on MT8581

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally Posted by GREM

Yes, mp4.
This is a nice test to check if player utilize FEL or not
Players based on MediaTek and some Amlogic SoCs - yep
Realtek, Tegra - nope

Thanks for the confirmation info...

Is there a link to this 2-layer Dolby Vision FEL.mp4 sample?

[SeeMoreDigital]

Thanks for PMing me your sample @GREM.

By any chance... Have you tried the 50 second '2-layer Dolby Vision FEL' sample that can be found on the Black Panther 4K UHD disc? When re-muxed into the .mp4 container with regular Dolby Digital audio, it comes in at around 274MB...

EDIT: It would appear the forum does not permit links to OneDrive files!

EDIT: I've sent you a PM with a link to my '2-layer Dolby Vision FEL.mp4' sample for you to try with any devices you may have available.

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital

In the .mp4 container?

Profile 7 (Dual layer) DV files don't play on CX or C1. The 2nd HEVC decoder, required for the 2nd layer, was disabled in the CX/C1. Nothing beyond BD uses the 2nd layer, so it was never needed in the TV, just convenient for my testing.

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

From my understanding, standard home DTS: X encoding is limited to static 11.1 (7.1.4), or IMAX Enhanced DTS:X at a static 12.1 (7.1.5) for the added Center Height channel.

The way DTS gets around this lack of pannable/scalable 3D object encoding support with home DTS:X is the matrix upmixing built within DTS:X Pro decoders for newer >7.1.4 receivers and pre-amps (probably a variation on Neural: X center extraction matrixing techniques to fill in the speaker gaps of their 32 speaker output layout).

The Front Wide speaker outputs, for example, are matrix derived in DTS: X, not discrete "channels" per se based on discrete object activity as with a properly designed and encoded (non static) Dolby Atmos track.

I don't know if this information helps you or not in the final analysis of the included audio tracks for these new test discs.

This is all really interesting, thank you for sharing. I provided DTS with the content on Friday.

I think in Dolby the wides can be done with objects or the beds. We used the beds.

I saw the center front and rear heights in the encoder manual. I guess we should add them for DTS:X.

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by GREM

Yes, mp4.
This is a nice test to check if player utilize FEL or not
Players based on MediaTek and some Amlogic SoCs - yep
Realtek, Tegra - nope



Both are based on MT8581

When you say players, do you mean UHD BD players or media players? I assume media players because most BD players seem to be using MediaTek with a couple using Socionext.

The current DV quality check pattern is MEL. I may redo in FEL and just put the red X in the FEL. This way when played in HDR10, you don't see the red X and think your player is broken.

[Stacey Spears]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

We have 7.2.4 sound in the home theater with speaker placement per Dolby's recommendation using 4 overheads. The AVP does DTS:X and I have it setup to use it.

I know a few other members here that have immersive audio setups (Atmos & DTS:X). IIRC, member gotmule has 8 REL subs.

Only 8? Poor soul, living in squalor, not sure how they make it through a movie.

Which AVR/SSP? Are they using a Trinnov? Curious how they are configured.

When I redo everything in a couple of years I am looking at going Trinnov, B.A.T. and Perlisten or Revel.

I have been using Meridian SSPs since the 565 came out in 94/95. The 861v8 has not been updated in years, so its time to move on.

[Balling]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

Profile 7 (Dual layer) DV files don't play on CX or C1. The 2nd HEVC decoder, required for the 2nd layer, was disabled in the CX/C1. Nothing beyond BD uses the 2nd layer, so it was never needed in the TV, just convenient for my testing.

MEL now works after the update came out that fixed MEL. Also profile 5 and profile 8, inlcuding HLG work, including profile 8 with MEL. Here we use mix to profile 8 to fix some problems with Dolby Vision dual layer. But FEL does not work AFAIK, even in profile 8, it also darkens the picture, so even HDR10 layer is broken. You need to remove second layer (or convert FEL to MEL with dovi_tool), for example. Sigh.

Whatever, I managed to buy on of the last LG C9 in my country in January.

I suppose only FEL needs an actual second HEVC decoder...

[Balling]

Originally Posted by SeeMoreDigital

In the .mp4 container?

Samples are here: https://mega <dot> nz/folder/1LAlECpY#7DOn-XkwJdvWfZn_nQR1Tg

And https://mega <dot> nz/folder/xHwWSQAb#PgF3BYTD3jo1x1R6rLEWxA

All commands are available here: https://forum.ixbt.com/post.cgi?id=p...&posts=&pages=

[TbeRw01]

Originally Posted by Balling

MEL now works after the update came out that fixed MEL. Also profile 5 and profile 8, inlcuding HLG work, including profile 8 with MEL. Here we use mix to profile 8 to fix some problems with Dolby Vision dual layer. But FEL does not work AFAIK, even in profile 8, it also darkens the picture, so even HDR10 layer is broken. You need to remove second layer (or convert FEL to MEL with dovi_tool), for example. Sigh.

Whatever, I managed to buy on of the last LG C9 in my country in January.

I suppose only FEL needs an actual second HEVC decoder...

Did you try the MEL files that have a larger bitrate (2mbps) ? I bet they don't work(or play incorrectly) on the C9 or newer.

If it behaves like my Vizio TV which only has one decoder as well, the large MEL P7 files seem to confuse the tv internal player and fail to play it. All the small bitrate(100kbps) dual-layer MEL P7 files work fine. list of DV layer bitrate

The Spears And Munsil MEL clip also has a high bitrate and can't be played on my Vizio TV unless I make a P8 file.

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

Profile 7 (Dual layer) DV files don't play on CX or C1. The 2nd HEVC decoder, required for the 2nd layer, was disabled in the CX/C1. Nothing beyond BD uses the 2nd layer, so it was never needed in the TV, just convenient for my testing.

Apologies if I'm misunderstood, and I might be a little pedantic with this question, but I'm thrown by the idea that TVs won't need two decoders any more. Surely they still do, for playback of 4k BDs in TV-led mode. Are you saying that people won't want to play 4K blu-rays on those TVs, or that they'll be happy to use the inferior* player-led decoding instead forever? Or did you just mean that whilst Profile 7 files won't play on those TVs, it works fine over HDMI just as before?

* because with player-led the tone-mapping unfortunately has to be done in the player based on a generic peak luminance value from the HDMI EDID which is the same for every TV, instead with TV-led where the TV's specific and more accurate peak luminance that you could calibrate is used.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

Apologies if I'm misunderstood, and I might be a little pedantic with this question, but I'm thrown by the idea that TVs won't need two decoders any more. Surely they still do, for playback of 4k BDs in TV-led mode...

When spinning discs encoded with 2-layer Dolby Vision, the 4K UHD player does the video decoding, not the TV