HDR Discussion Thread

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DanBa

"If the human eye was a digital camera, it’s "data sheet" would say that it has a 60 pixels/degree at the fovea (the part of the retina where the visual acuity is highest). This is called eye-limiting resolution."
http://sensics.com/understanding-pix...ng-resolution/

Well to be most accurate, visual acuity is actually dependent upon the fovea in the retina and what goes on beyond that (in the brain), i.e. Vernier acuity. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...r#post11089290

This should be an easy to understand article for most readers here…
http://www.nature.com/articles/srep0...c-2095c5ebfd90

So, why do I feel I can speak somewhat authoritatively about the fovea and vision? Because, I know what a normal fovea….



and an abnormal fovea look like….



and what is causing the problem, exactly how my friends in the clinical sciences proceed to fix it, what complications could happen, what are the visual acuity expectations afterwards, etc.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Also I'm not into this techie stuff

No problemo.
(Also in Dolby vision), I call on thee Egyptian -

Talkin' About the Movie with Yehya - Beauty and the Beast - YouTube

Talkin' About the Movie with Yehya - Beauty and the Beast - YouTube

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by DanBa

I think three different "Philips" companies are involved: Philips, Philips TP Vision and Philips Funai P&F USA.
https://ipscio.com/licensing-economi...and-tp-vision/

Philips TP Vision won't support Philips HDR, likely a technology of Philips.
http://www.ip.philips.com/licensing/...hdr-technology

Philips "P&F USA has detailed its latest lineup of Philips branded 4K Ultra HD TVs. The 2017 collection includes the 6000, 7000, and 8000 series. In addition, all models will feature Dolby Vision support out of the box."
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...-support/37677

I did not know that Philips no longer makes TVs. Still the Chinese CE company TP Vision that sells Philips TVs in Europe is only going to support HDR10 and HLG. I guess it is a bit early to say whether that indicates anything but I am curious to see what the Chinese CE companies support next year.

Originally Posted by puddy77

Trademark? I just looked at the USPTO and noticed Samsung trademarked both HDR10 and HDR10 Plus. I'm not very knowledgeable of trademark law. So anyone know why they would trademark those terms? I thought the tech is supposed to be open source. Why would you trademark the name of an open source technology?

I think that even free formats sometimes get trademarks so the company/organization can have some control over how it is promoted.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I will have little sympathy for them if not doing 4K HDR beyond the year 2020 <- when the next gen MPEG codec is planned to be completed and expected to provide a 50% bitrate reduction as compared to HEVC.

Once ATSC 3.0 tuners come out with HEVC decoders won't that mean that ATSC 3.0 will have to use HEVC? Even today MPEG-2 is still used by US broadcasters. ATSC 3.0 may be more flexible but I can't see how they could change anything major without obsoleting older equipment. Hopefully broadcasters will switch to 4K after the ATSC 3.0 transition.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Well to be most accurate, visual acuity is actually dependent upon the fovea in the retina and what goes on beyond that (in the brain), i.e. Vernier acuity. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...r#post11089290

This should be an easy to understand article for most readers here…
http://www.nature.com/articles/srep00300

Pictorial illustrations of the concept of Vernier (aka hyperacuity).

From the peer reviewed paper by a Professor from Berkeley having a research interest (advanced) in this topic….
https://optometry.berkeley.edu/peopl...r-od-phd-faao/




So then, the applied vision science implication for video engineers and hobbyists to be aware of is that hyperacuity allows us to see/recognize things like image degrading artifacts…..




In other words, in conclusion, thee overall resolving power of the human visual system is determined by the eye + the brain functioning in conjunction and the 120 cpd figure is 4x greater! than the 30 cycles per degree (cpd) of 20/20 vision.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

Once ATSC 3.0 tuners come out with HEVC decoders won't that mean that ATSC 3.0 will have to use HEVC? Even today MPEG-2 is still used by US broadcasters. ATSC 3.0 may be more flexible but I can't see how they could change anything major without obsoleting older equipment. Hopefully broadcasters will switch to 4K after the ATSC 3.0 transition.

Indeed.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

For those who couldn’t receive last week's webinar due to technical difficulties , I’ll post a link to the recorded webinar when it becomes available.

The webinar recording is still unavailable for public viewing. Meanwhile, snippets from a panel from last year’s NAB may be educational in this regard….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKtTxQmgru4#t=7m18s

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

In other words, in conclusion, thee overall resolving power of the human visual system is determined by the eye + the brain functioning in conjunction and the 120 cpd figure is 4x greater! than the 30 cycles per degree (cpd) of 20/20 vision.

Hmmm, so there's actually a reason why I seem to be far more susceptible to things like aliasing and tiny little visual gremlins like that, despite my need to wear corrective lenses? Heh, 20/20's overrated. I sure is special, boss!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

...I sure is special, boss!

Until dem robots come down thee aisle.

Seriously, what this all means is that the eye to screen distance charts that some people commonly reference on the internet somewhat underestimate our true viewing capability because they base their charts on simple visual acuity (Snellen VA) and don’t take into consideration the functionality of our entire human visual system, i.e. what happens distal to the optic nerve.



That said, once the camera or objects move sufficiently fast enough, static resolution becomes more moot and we require higher temporal resolution (HFR) for sharper pictures.

[Penton-Man]

NAB2017 - http://ultrahdforum.org/events/nab-2...for-the-forum/

[Penton-Man]

Some comments regarding 4K (finishing visual effects in 4K, etc.) during the panel discussion...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKtTxQmgru4#t=31m23s

[puddy77]

A couple of interesting THR articles ahead of CinemaCon.

Ymagis' CinemaNext Unveils New Premium Cinema Model - They're introducing a Dolby Cinema like theater called Sphera using their EclairColor HDR system, and it could come to the US.

CinemaCon: Sony to Unveil Laser Projector - I assume it might go in the above Sphera theaters. But it could possibly make its way to other "premium large format theaters." Like has anyone ever heard of Cinemark's proprietary HDR system? Is theatrical HDR going to become splintered factions like the audio systems (Dolby vs DTS vs Auro)? Any chance of a standardized theatrical HDR?

[puddy77]

Color Volume Dominates 2017 4K Ultra HDTV Comparisons - HDGuru article that includes comments from a Dolby rep. Interesting that he seems to defend LG's RGBW subpixel structure against Samsung's attacks, while remaining on message that Dolby Vision plays to the strengths and minimizes the weaknesses of any DV display.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by puddy77

CinemaCon

Hoping to hear some audience feedback from the screening of Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Men Tell No Tales, scroll down to the bottom....http://cinemacon.com/schedule#horizontalTab3 as Yehya won’t be reviewing the movie until May.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by puddy77

Samsung

Last night I stopped by my local Best Buy to purchase a small part which I needed quickly. Browsing thru the TV section I overheard a customer talking to the BB employee saying…”I’m in the market for a new television. Are the Samsung QLED tvs a more advanced form of OLED?”

[Penton-Man]

At thee upcoming NAB, precisely here, the UltraHD Forum will have demos including the showing of HLG content.
HLG continues to be studied at the international standards working group level….
https://www.itu.int/md/R15-WP6C-C-0213/en

[PaulGo]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Last night I stopped by my local Best Buy to purchase a small part which I needed quickly. Browsing thru the TV section I overheard a customer talking to the BB employee saying…”I’m in the market for a new television. Are the Samsung QLED tvs a more advanced form of OLED?”

Did you happen to hear the Best Buy salesperson reply?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by PaulGo

Did you happen to here the Best Buy salesperson reply?

Nope , I just kept walking by, but I confess for a second there, I was tempted to interrupt and ask the sales consultant where I could find the microwaves that turn into cameras…. https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=P...0qUiqU#t=5m39s

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by puddy77

Color Volume Dominates 2017 4K Ultra HDTV Comparisons - HDGuru article that includes comments from a Dolby rep. Interesting that he seems to defend LG's RGBW subpixel structure against Samsung's attacks, while remaining on message that Dolby Vision plays to the strengths and minimizes the weaknesses of any DV display.

Less than a year ago Dolby made statements against the use of system gamma with HLG saying that it would limit bright saturated colors. Now Dolby is saying that WRGB OLED is alright since bright saturated colors aren't important. I think that Dolby needs to pick an opinion since they have made contradictory statements on this issue.

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

Less than a year ago Dolby made statements against the use of system gamma with HLG saying that it would limit bright saturated colors. Now Dolby is saying that WRGB OLED is alright since bright saturated colors aren't important. I think that Dolby needs to pick an opinion since they have made contradictory statements on this issue.

Clearly Dolby is making financial statements. Can't go around knocking a tv that makes them money

[DanBa]

Originally Posted by ray0414

Clearly Dolby is making financial statements. Can't go around knocking a tv that makes them money

I think the purpose of any well-designed (Dolby Vision (?), HDR10 Plus (?), …) display adaptation, driven by metadata generated at mastering time, is to adapt as faithfully as possible the video signal created on a reference mastering display to a video signal suitable to a consumer TV with lesser display capabilities.
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?p=13204106