HDR Discussion Thread - Page 592 - Blu-ray Forum

LordoftheRings · 12-12-2019, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vincent Teoh

I'm getting the hang of posting on a forum. :-)

Warmest regards Vincent, it's nice to have you here...HDR discussion thread.
If one person we can learn from is you, and Kris, and Dan, and Lee, and Peter, and Penton, ...Geoff too.

Bob

PeterTHX · 12-12-2019, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff D

One other thought has occured: what if Mando was first graded in DV HDR and the SDR downconversion is just an automated offshoot from that?

Um - that's what I've been saying for the past several posts!
(and dismissed by Vincent)

Penton-Man · 12-12-2019, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Um - that's what I've been saying for the past several posts!

Plus, if there is HDR -> SDR content out there only using L1 analysis
i.e. the analysis pass identifies three key pieces of metadata from each frame, namely what are the brightest values, what is the darkest value and what is the statistical mid tone value. These three values are fed into Dolby’s content mapping algorithm to generate what it thinks is the best conversion to SDR. And even though this process is entirely automated, and quick, hobbyists shouldn’t label that as *fake* HDR either.

Sure, it better (and recommended to also do a manual trim in Level 2 (https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...v#post15620128 ) for a more refined product, but like I said that doesn’t make L1 *fake* HDR just because it’s quick and automated.

Penton-Man · 12-12-2019, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Warmest regards Vincent, it's nice to have you here...HDR discussion thread.
If one person we can learn from is you, and Kris, and Dan, and Lee, and Peter, and Penton,....Geoff too.

I must admit that until Vincent posted it, I hadn’t heard of content creators doing –

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vincent Teoh

SDR-content-wrapped-in-HDR container "fake HDR"

and still haven’t by others in the biz.

I'll say one thing, after skimming the last several pages it's apparent that nothing gets forum folks riled up like the feeling they've been cheated.

Mierzwiak · 12-12-2019, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vincent Teoh

You're just trying to confound the issue by putting words in my mouth: when/ where did I say that with such absolute certainty?

I don't know, in your every single post? Ever tried to read them?

It's obvious all you care about is high peak brightness, but 2000 nits means NOTHING. It's just a number that can be achieved by flat, overblown highlight with zero details. But hey, it's high range, yay!

You can't accuse show or a movie for having fake HDR, use words like fraud and suggest that colorists might be lying because they're afraid to lose their job and at the same time pretending that you're not certain about your judgement. If you're saying that one low nit grade is a conversion, you're suggesting, even if you won't admit it directly, that all might be.

Geoff D · 12-12-2019, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Um - that's what I've been saying for the past several posts!
(and dismissed by Vincent)

Sorry, I missed it.

mrtickleuk · 12-12-2019, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mierzwiak

So the consensus is that as long as there's High Peak Brightness, Baby! it's real HDR, but if it's just few hundred nits grade it must've been converted from SDR.

No. I don't see that consensus at all.

Scottishguy · 12-12-2019, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

No. I don't see that consensus at all.

The only consensus is Geoff and Vincent don't agree with each other. But Vincent feels satisfied he's demonstrated the validity of his argument through scientific analysis. So no longer has any reason to continue posting.

Though Vincent must consider this place and it's members to hold some weight by taking his time to post and contribute. I'm sure some other issue will rear it's head, and he'll be back.

zen007 · 12-12-2019, 01:35 PM

It would help if the products are labeled effectively:

a) 4K
b) 4K + WCG
c) 4K + WCG + HDR

Some "a" titles could look better than some "c" titles, but that discussion falls into the domain of "quality of the transfer"

oddbox83 · 12-12-2019, 01:40 PM

I'd agree nits value alone is largely meaningless. It's just an indicator of how bright it can potentially get, not how good the quality will be. You wouldn't use a floodlight to illuminate a living room for example. It's all about the context (and good tone mapping).

Waboman · 12-12-2019, 02:15 PM

Well Vincent, if nothing else you sure made this thread come alive. Hope you’ll pop in every now and again. I’ll depart with a little HDR wisdom. When you’re standing in line at the commissary and it’s finally your turn, you look that food server in the eye and you say bangers & mash, baby.

PaulGo · 12-12-2019, 02:42 PM

A technical discussion is like politics. Usually each side has valid points. Just because you disagree with some of what is stated doesn't mean that everything stated is invalid

Lee A Stewart · 12-12-2019, 02:53 PM

LG Display is currently the sole supplier of OLED TV panels to 15 companies. The group includes brands such as Sony, Panasonic, Philips, Skyworth, and of course LG Electronics.

Next year, the list of companies sourcing OLED TV panels from LG Display will grow. It has already been confirmed that Vizio will launch its first OLED TV next year, and Hisense is expected to expand its OLED TV line-up to the US.

Xiaomi now confirms that it is planning to adopt OLED panels for some of its TVs early next year and Korean media are reporting that Huawei will follow suit. The OLED TVs will be announced later so details and specifications are currently unknown.

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1576148414

BrownianMotion · 12-12-2019, 03:10 PM

I stop coming into this thread for a couple of weeks and I miss out on Vincent's debut, his fight with several other posters, and his subsequent departure.

That'll teach me to never neglect this thread.

Lee A Stewart · 12-12-2019, 03:19 PM

So with the imminent demise of LCD . . . how is that going to effect HDR? No way can an OLED hit the kind of brightness nits that an LCD can. Will all this brouhaha about 2000 or 4000 nits become moot?

PeterTHX · 12-12-2019, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

So with the imminent demise of LCD . . . how is that going to effect HDR? No way can an OLED hit the kind of brightness nits that an LCD can. Will all this brouhaha about 2000 or 4000 nits become moot?

OLED will take out LCD the way Plasma took out LCD methinks.

Scottishguy · 12-12-2019, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

OLED will take out LCD the way Plasma took out LCD methinks.

I think the issue with LCD/LED is they never pulled the trigger on micro sooner.

Fendergopher · 12-12-2019, 04:08 PM

Most of the brightness limitations of consumer OLEDs come down to inadequate cooling and power regulations, so I'm not certain what manufacturers could do to alleviate those "bottlenecks". There's the Panasonic GZ2000 with its custom backplate that acts as a heatsink, but how scalable that solution is I don't know, I suspect it's not something you can replicate cheaply.

Lee A Stewart · 12-12-2019, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

OLED will take out LCD the way Plasma took out LCD methinks.

LCD replaced Plasma! Not the other way around.

Scottishguy · 12-12-2019, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

LCD replaced Plasma! Not the other way around.

I think he was joking.

12-12-2019, 03:10 PM	#11834
BrownianMotion Power Member Member since: Nov 2013 Posts: 1,840 Thanks: 307 Thanked 1,053 times in 542 posts	I stop coming into this thread for a couple of weeks and I miss out on Vincent's debut, his fight with several other posters, and his subsequent departure. That'll teach me to never neglect this thread. Last edited by BrownianMotion; 12-12-2019 at 03:25 PM.

12-12-2019, 01:35 PM	#11829
zen007 Power Member Member since: Oct 2019 Location: Canada Posts: 1,941 Thanks: 821 Thanked 793 times in 511 posts	It would help if the products are labeled effectively: a) 4K b) 4K + WCG c) 4K + WCG + HDR Some "a" titles could look better than some "c" titles, but that discussion falls into the domain of "quality of the transfer"

12-12-2019, 01:40 PM	#11830
oddbox83 Blu-ray Champion Member since: Sep 2013 Location: UK Posts: 10,743 Thanks: 1,198 Thanked 8,802 times in 4,385 posts	I'd agree nits value alone is largely meaningless. It's just an indicator of how bright it can potentially get, not how good the quality will be. You wouldn't use a floodlight to illuminate a living room for example. It's all about the context (and good tone mapping).

12-12-2019, 02:15 PM	#11831
Waboman Blu-ray Archduke Member since: Dec 2009 Location: In a van down by the river Posts: 34,032 Thanks: 83 Thanked 8,094 times in 4,231 posts	Well Vincent, if nothing else you sure made this thread come alive. Hope you’ll pop in every now and again. I’ll depart with a little HDR wisdom. When you’re standing in line at the commissary and it’s finally your turn, you look that food server in the eye and you say bangers & mash, baby.

12-12-2019, 02:42 PM	#11832
PaulGo Power Member Member since: Aug 2007 Location: North Potomac, MD Posts: 1,785 Thanks: 465 Thanked 434 times in 260 posts	A technical discussion is like politics. Usually each side has valid points. Just because you disagree with some of what is stated doesn't mean that everything stated is invalid

12-12-2019, 02:53 PM	#11833
Lee A Stewart Blu-ray Baron Member since: Jan 2019 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 13,999 Thanks: 2,578 Thanked 5,799 times in 3,651 posts	LG Display is currently the sole supplier of OLED TV panels to 15 companies. The group includes brands such as Sony, Panasonic, Philips, Skyworth, and of course LG Electronics. Next year, the list of companies sourcing OLED TV panels from LG Display will grow. It has already been confirmed that Vizio will launch its first OLED TV next year, and Hisense is expected to expand its OLED TV line-up to the US. Xiaomi now confirms that it is planning to adopt OLED panels for some of its TVs early next year and Korean media are reporting that Huawei will follow suit. The OLED TVs will be announced later so details and specifications are currently unknown. https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1576148414

12-12-2019, 03:19 PM	#11835
Lee A Stewart Blu-ray Baron Member since: Jan 2019 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 13,999 Thanks: 2,578 Thanked 5,799 times in 3,651 posts	So with the imminent demise of LCD . . . how is that going to effect HDR? No way can an OLED hit the kind of brightness nits that an LCD can. Will all this brouhaha about 2000 or 4000 nits become moot?

12-12-2019, 04:08 PM	#11838
Fendergopher Expert Member Member since: Oct 2017 Location: Norway Posts: 712 Thanks: 810 Thanked 529 times in 265 posts	Most of the brightness limitations of consumer OLEDs come down to inadequate cooling and power regulations, so I'm not certain what manufacturers could do to alleviate those "bottlenecks". There's the Panasonic GZ2000 with its custom backplate that acts as a heatsink, but how scalable that solution is I don't know, I suspect it's not something you can replicate cheaply.