Ask questions to Sigma Designs insider "kjack"

[Jeff Kleist]

We've already reached lossless for audio. When will we get parity in the video realm? 4K?

Likely never. Lossless video is impractical as a distribution medium, and they don't want that level of master out there

The videos you download on PSN or Xbox live are "720p", but are still sub DVD quality due to heavy compression.

The copy you get on a well done Blu-ray looks as good as the theater on screens up to 20ft (biggest I've seen one on) wide. Isn't that good enough?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by EWL5

We've already reached lossless for audio. When will we get parity in the video realm? 4K?

Jeff’s right.
Plus, what makes you think that even the 4k presentations which you may have seen at a high-end Digital Cinema have been ‘lossless’?
Read the abstract for the first paper on this page from the SMPTE conference………

http://www.smpte.org/events/smpte_an...ule/06wedspm1/

[kjack]

OK, I'll take a minor break from getting ready for CES to ask a question...

Would a premium BD player that can perform motion compensated 24fps to 60fps conversion during 3D playback be of interest?

[4K2K]

Originally Posted by kjack

OK, I'll take a minor break from getting ready for CES to ask a question...

Would a premium BD player that can perform motion compensated 24fps to 60fps conversion during 3D playback be of interest?

Yes please (is that motion interpolation?). Will it give different levels/options too? Will those sort of options be in the 3D TVs too?

Also, because 3d 60 fps will also support 2x 60fps output as well as 2x 24, does that mean the players could interpolate and output 2D interpolation at 120fps? And would it be better interpolation than is found on recent TVs?

Can a chip in a player or TV support additional output/input formats that aren't in the HDMI 1.3 or HDMI 1.4 spec as long as they stay within the bandwidth limitations of the 1.3 or 1.4 spec?

Also, is there any chance of 3D players having an option to convert 2D content to 3D? - I think a Mitsubishi player was going to do that at one time.

Will most players allow output of the new 3D in anaglyph?

[kjack]

Originally Posted by 4K2K

Yes please (is that motion interpolation?).

Yes, motion compensated interpolation...

Will it give different levels/options too?

Haven't thought that far ahead. What did you have in mind?

Will those sort of options be in the 3D TVs too?

Depends on the 3DTV. Think "you probably get what you pay for..."

Also, because 3d 60 fps will also support 2x 60fps output as well as 2x 24, does that mean the players could interpolate and output 2D interpolation at 120fps?

Don't think there is a HDMI format or TV that supports that.

Can a chip in a player or TV support additional output/input formats that aren't in the HDMI 1.3 or HDMI 1.4 spec as long as they stay within the bandwidth limitations of the 1.3 or 1.4 spec?

You would run into interoperability issues if you did that.

Also, is there any chance of 3D players having an option to convert 2D content to 3D?

Probably some 3D players will be able to do that...

Will most players allow output of the new 3D in anaglyph?

Most, I don't know. Some will though...

[4K2K]

Originally Posted by kjack

Yes, motion compensated interpolation...

Haven't thought that far ahead. What did you have in mind?

Some models have "off/low/medium/high" options for motion plus. Some of the newer ones have even more options (or options instead of low/medium/high maybe - I'm not sure) like the amount of judder reduction (0-10), the amount of blur reduction (0-10). But whichever type gives the most real interpolation would be good, but it could go on a scale from exactly like 24p film to exactly like real life.

Also, as well as 24p->60p, maybe 25p->50p or 30p->60p.

Depends on the 3DTV. Think "you probably get what you pay for..."

Don't think there is a HDMI format or TV that supports that.

You would run into interoperability issues if you did that.

I was thinking it might be possible, especially if the same manufacturer sells players and TVs. eg. a player through HDMI asks the TV what formats it supports, the TV tells it through HDMI which formats it supports with maybe extra ones that aren't part of the HDMI spec but would be within the bandwidth limitations, the player also has a list of formats it supports, with maybe extra ones, and it would only show as a selectable option on the menu the options that both the player and the TV was capable of. So that, if both the player and the TV had those options, it would allow output and maybe motion interpolation to 100 or 120hz.

Also, maybe there could be extra options in the bitrate meter For the bitrate for the left eye and the difference part. Also, it could show the average bitrate values for the last x minutes. And for the display button to say whether the content it is currently reading (when reading 50i or 60i) is progressive (25p or 30p) or interlaced based.

Maybe have a super-resolution option. And an option to play 25fps/50hz DVDs at 24hz, and an option to show 24hz at 25hz (output at 50).

But the auto-conversion of 2D to 3D with whatever the best algorithms are would be one of the best options.

[Jeff Kleist]

I just wish that the people who set up the displays would turn the damn thing off and that all the sets would ship with it disabled. I know that's not going ot happen, but there are so many people who get turned off of blu-ray because it "looks like a soap opera"

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by 4K2K

Also, as well as 24p->60p, maybe 25p->50p or 30p->60p.

Also, maybe there could be extra options in the bitrate meter For the bitrate for the left eye and the difference part. Also, it could show the average bitrate values for the last x minutes. And for the display button to say whether the content it is currently reading (when reading 50i or 60i) is progressive (25p or 30p) or interlaced based.

Maybe have a super-resolution option. And an option to play 25fps/50hz DVDs at 24hz, and an option to show 24hz at 25hz (output at 50).

But the auto-conversion of 2D to 3D with whatever the best algorithms are would be one of the best options.

These ideas perk my attention up as a consumer.

[SpaceDog]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

I just wish that the people who set up the displays would turn the damn thing off and that all the sets would ship with it disabled. I know that's not going ot happen, but there are so many people who get turned off of blu-ray because it "looks like a soap opera"

That is exactly what blu-ray and Cable TV look like on my friend's Philips. It makes me anxious watching anything on his set - and to date he hasn't found the "off" button for it.

[Jeff Kleist]

It's right in his menus, or he could always RTFM

[Anthony P]

Jeff any idea if BD 3d and 3d TVs will be demoed at CES?

[Jeff Kleist]

Kjack would know better than I, but I'd say it's extremely likely

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Kjack would know better than I, but I'd say it's extremely likely

yeah, I meant Kjack, that is why I posted it here. I am guessing he can't give any models or manufacturers, but hoping a simple yes/no would be OK

[kjack]

Ohhhh...killer 3D video demo in our CES suite...

[Jeff Kleist]

KJack, can you grab a videocamera and give everyone a booth tour?

[Ian_S]

So now CES is done....

Is HDMI 1.4 a pre-req for 3D or will it work fine with HDMI 1.3? Will the PS3 3D upgrade deliver the full experience or will there be two levels of 3D, like HD Ready, and FullHD? Do the original PS3's have suitable HDMI hardware or only the new slims?

If 3D works at 120Hz, how is that going to affect the significant number of amps that sit between players and screens for allowing that signal through? Will 3D players (or even the base chipsets) have 2 HDMI outs, one for direct connection to a 3D display device and one for audio to existing (and perfectly functional for HD audio) surround systems? This latter point would seem the best option.

And finally, what chance is there of existing BD players (non-PS3) being upgradeable to 3D? I'm guessing little, as not all new players at CES were 3D capable, only top of the range ones it seems.

[Jeff Kleist]

PS3 only has HDMI 1.3. It will do 1080i/60 based 3D. For 1080p 3D you will need HDMI 1.4. It's a bandwidth issue

[4K2K]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

PS3 only has HDMI 1.3. It will do 1080i/60 based 3D. For 1080p 3D you will need HDMI 1.4. It's a bandwidth issue

But HDMI 1.4 has the same bandwidth limitations as HDMI 1.3.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI

Since the PS3 uses software for Blu-ray playback, if it has the processing capability (which it might not), wouldn't it be able to output to the HDMI 1.4 specs - which will have extra stuff for sending 3d?

[Jeff Kleist]

You still need the HDMI 1.4 transceiver chip. Same as the PS3 phat could only do LPCM. I believe it has to do with the "over a single link" factor. That there's some dual-channel stuff going on in the 1.4 spec(keep in mind I haven't read it, and pretty much everything about the tech end of 3D I know comes from a patchwork of conversations with lots of different people)

For example the 3D ready Samsung and Mits DLPs running at 120hz can do the 1080i/60 3D, because their transceiver can support that format already. They then re-assemble it into 2 1080i/30 signals internally, 1 left, 1 right. Hypothetically many of the existing 120hz sets could do this, with a firmware upgrade, and maybe even some of the more current Blu-ray players. I wouldn't hold your breath for those updates however, and there will still need to be some kind of sync port on the TV for that to work (which most sets lack).

I don't think KJack has recovered from CES, but I'm sure he'll be able to go into much more detail when he crawls out of bed

[kjack]

OK, I finally got out of bed...

Basically if you want to use the 3D HDMI logo, you need HDMI 1.4.

3D can be conveyed over HDMI 1.3 once the new signalling from HDMI 1.4 is put in place. But you can't use the 3D logo, and there is no guarantee of compatibility since no mandatory formats.

To do some of the new 3D frame packing modes over HDMI requires much higher clock rate than most HDMI solutions support.

And there may be limitations before the HDMI. In short, the entire video processing and timing path inside the box has to be able to support 3D. There may also be some post processing that needs to be done (i.e. ghost busting) before driving the HDMI output.