Is 4K a game changer?

[JayEmm]

Originally Posted by dvdmike

Indeed, but there are ways to "access" them..
They need to start referencing them when they produce a home master, that is how films were timed and meant to look.
Going back to OCN is great, but that is not how the film was timed to look.
That is how the teal and orange nightmare began, and with HDR is needs to happen even more but won't.

This is why the ideal source for a "legacy" film is the Inter-pos.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by JayEmm

This is why the ideal source for a "legacy" film is the Inter-pos.

Agreed

[JayEmm]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Agreed about 1080p being good enough ('specially with no colour subsampling and the wider cinema gamut) but it's nice when it actually is 1080p; someone mentioned it earlier about there being no anamorphic support for 'scope in digital projection, and just recently I released exactly what he meant. I saw Star Wars and Mockingjay in 2K on 'scope screens, the trailers looked excellent but when they embiggened the image to fit the screen for the movie proper I could see the pixel structure and that was from the back row! 858 pixels height vs 1080 may not be earth shatteringly different but that 25% increase might make all the difference. Or perhaps it's just the 2K projectors, if they were changed over for 4K then even with the source still being 2K the increased pixel density helps to make it look less 'digital'.

It's all about synchronising the projector with the screen. If you're doing one of these "premium" or fake IMAX type things, then a 2K/1080P projector will more than likely be unsuitable. Of course, 4K projector is useless without 4K source material. Bit of a chicken/egg thing though.

For what it's worth, I saw Star Wars at the IMAX in Leicester Square (genuine IMAX screen) and it looked absolutely terrible.

[UFAlien]

I do wish theatres would be more upfront about things. They obviously tell you when a showtime is in 3D, and my local place with Auro also tells you when it uses that. But it'd be good to know when they're showing a movie in 4K, or 7.1. You can sometimes look up the datasheets for the DCP to know what's available, but that doesn't necessarily translate to them showing it that way.

Of course, maybe they'd be embarrassed or something to advertise that their projection tops out at what the public will perceive to be the same resolution as a new TV. I suppose that might not help ticket sales vs. waiting for home releases.

[JayEmm]

The biggest culprit for that in the UK is Odeon cinemas. The introduced a technology called "Odeon Digital 8000".

What does the 8000 stand for? Absolutely nothing.

[UFAlien]

Allegedly from what I'm seeing, the 8,000 is supposed to be "the number of films it can store." Why a first-run cinema needs to store 8,000 movies simultaneously is beyond me.

Also, apparently a good deal of those Digital 8,000 systems are actually still 2K.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by JayEmm

It's all about synchronising the projector with the screen. If you're doing one of these "premium" or fake IMAX type things, then a 2K/1080P projector will more than likely be unsuitable. Of course, 4K projector is useless without 4K source material. Bit of a chicken/egg thing though.

For what it's worth, I saw Star Wars at the IMAX in Leicester Square (genuine IMAX screen) and it looked absolutely terrible.

That's why I go showcase, all Sony 4k in the deluxe locations and with actual 4k its stunning

[JayEmm]

The last showcase cinema I went to was a wretched hive of scum and villainy, looked like an abandoned bowling alley from the outside.

I also don't know why any digital cinema system would store 8,000 films. For a start, it's practically impossible (assume 100GB/film or so I guess) - also pretty sure studios don't let cinemas "keep" films, as much as loan them

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by JayEmm

The last showcase cinema I went to was a wretched hive of scum and villainy, looked like an abandoned bowling alley from the outside.

I also don't know why any digital cinema system would store 8,000 films. For a start, it's practically impossible (assume 100GB/film or so I guess) - also pretty sure studios don't let cinemas "keep" films, as much as loan them

There are two in Bristol, the shithole and the deluxe the deluxe has an Xplus atmos install and two directors hall venues that have waiter service hot food and bar and full leather armchairs

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by JayEmm

It's all about synchronising the projector with the screen. If you're doing one of these "premium" or fake IMAX type things, then a 2K/1080P projector will more than likely be unsuitable. Of course, 4K projector is useless without 4K source material. Bit of a chicken/egg thing though.

For what it's worth, I saw Star Wars at the IMAX in Leicester Square (genuine IMAX screen) and it looked absolutely terrible.

Useless? Not in my opinion. Sure, you wouldn't want to buy a 4K screen just to show 2K stuff (um....) but it really does make a difference to my eyes, having the denser pixel count.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Useless? Not in my opinion. Sure, you wouldn't want to buy a 4K screen just to show 2K stuff (um....) but it really does make a difference to my eyes, having the denser pixel count.

Depending on the upscaler it can make all the diffrence I agree, you lucked out with the Sony their tech is pretty untouchable

[Geoff D]

And I don't just mean on my TV, I mean on a cinema screen proper, like.

[dvdmike]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

And I don't just mean on my TV, I mean on a cinema screen proper, like.

I have only seen Sony 4k theatrically and its pretty great stuff

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by JayEmm

Netflix (rightly so) saw this as a massive cheat, so have banned people from using that on their shows where 4K is a requirement.

Bayer Patterning is too complex to try and explain in a post here, but long story short your TV has a red,green and a blue sub-pixel for every pixel on the screen (if you've never seen them, just walk up very close to it - easier in the SDTV days!). Cameras can only have each pixel red OR blue OR green - so there's a fair bit of guesswork involved in creating colour and resolution suffers. Hence cameras with three chips (one each of red,green,blue).

Sounds like you were present at the Television Academy’s professional development event back in July of 2014……or caught the panel discussion later on the internet where thee actual math was delved into with more detail.

ray (from Michigan?), if you’re truly interested in learning more, I recommend this reference by Dave Stump (chair of the ASC camera subcommittee)….http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Cinema.../dp/0240817915 as it’s not a difficult read.

[JayEmm]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Useless? Not in my opinion. Sure, you wouldn't want to buy a 4K screen just to show 2K stuff (um....) but it really does make a difference to my eyes, having the denser pixel count.

If you're at the stage where you can see individual pixels, obviously there is an issue. At the moment I struggle to find garden variety cinemas doing a half decent job of projection - let alone pristine ones doing 4k, but that's what makes it a treat when we do see it.

On the subject of Netflix I heard about it through a few industry friends. I haven't read that book but For tech fiends John Galt of Panavision did a very interesting lecture called "demystifying digital camera specifications" a number of years ago - at the time comparing the 1080p Panavision Genesis to the then new "4k" red one.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by JayEmm

On the subject of Netflix I heard about it through a few industry friends.

Your source information is Correct

And in fact, a few months after thee ^ above hyperlinked post, they were getting the word out publicly and un-apologetically to all quarters…https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...x#post11184237

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by JayEmm

I haven't read that book but For tech fiends John Galt of Panavision did a very interesting lecture called "demystifying digital camera specifications" a number of years ago - at the time comparing the 1080p Panavision Genesis to the then new "4k" red one.

Yeah, if we’re thinking of the same thing, I remember it created quite the uproar in the camera forums back in the day….http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthr...ed-not-true-4k with a revisit to the article nearly 2 years later….http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthr...s-Pixels/page2

As to Dave, for those unawares, he teaches classes at the Global Cinematography Institute and AFI. As to the Camera subcommittee itself which he Chairs, it has been supportive of the work of the ASC Advanced Imaging subcommittee in HDR image processing in conjunction with the ASC UHDTV subcommittee (chaired by a former Sony V.P.).

[applemac]

it will be a game changer in that now waiting for bluray 4K releases will be beneficial over seeing them in a crappy 2K theater.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by richieb1971

Although I do think its about time factories actually calibrated TV's to the standards that HDTVtest.co.uk use. I mean, why make a TV that does not conform to a standard?

for obvious reasons, when you walk into a store with bright awful lighting a properly calibrated TV looks like complete crap and so people would buy the TV next to it that has improper grey scale and is in torch mode.

We don't see what is actually there but we see what we think should be there because our brain filters the information, that is why illusions like


work so well, your brain is saying it is a checker board and the apple is casting a shadow so even though box 1 and 2 are the same colour 1 should be light and 2 dark because the shadow is making 2 look darker.

[JayEmm]

If Joe Public had even a modicum of taste or knowledge when it came to TV picture quality, all these dynamic image modes would never have come into being. They're vile