Sony introduces high-end ZD9 TV series with HDR

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by pbz06

XDR, yea I can see that. For reference watching I turn it off too, but if I'm watching like Transformers or Netflix, then who cares it looks good or better I'm most cases, and Low is subtle

ACE isn't a purist dilemma for me, no more than local dimming or motion settings IMO. It's meant to optimize the picture and works in conjunction with the backlight so I dunno...purist can be arbitrary to me. What we watch at home is already different than what's caught on camera

Needless to say I'm fine with local dimming, motion interpolation is a big no-no for me personally even if it's Sony. True Cinema Motion it is for me otherwise off. I've tried ACE on my X9405D on all settings and I noticed things can get blown out so that's another reason why I won't use it. Besides I like as few (unnecessary) processing going on as possible.

[pbz06]

I haven't tried it nor seen it on the X9405D so I can't compare. On the Z it doesn't blow out anything, quite the opposite actually. Interesting, but I'm glad there's options. Works great here with the backlight and zones.

[elwaylite]

I may try ACE by itself, it looks like every other version of it I have seen, were it applies more to darker scenes and tries to dim certain areas down to offer more of a range. XDR blew things out. I turned over to the Auburn Oklahoma bowl game that was on last night, and the Auburn helmets and white lines on the field were terrible.

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by elwaylite

I may try ACE by itself, it looks like every other version of it I have seen, were it applies more to darker scenes and tries to dim certain areas down to offer more of a range. XDR blew things out. I turned over to the Auburn Oklahoma bowl game that was on last night, and the Auburn helmets and white lines on the field were terrible.

I forgot to mention, XDR does look bad with sports feeds or lower quality broadcast (less than steady 1080p). It's like it doesn't have enough data and know what to do with the feed. I only use it on Low for newer Blu-ray eleases and it's much more subtle. I'm football especially, since it's zoomed out and the white helmets are small, it can look terrible (same thing with baseball).

ACE on the Z does object based treatment, so it doesn't dim or brighten entire scenes like other Tv's. It's locally and adjusts the backlight LEDs more precisely. I would think the 940 is similar, but not quite at same level. I can't speak for it's backlight drive and LED precision.

Either way, Off is easy enough to flick

[elwaylite]

I figure ACE must try and lower dark portions while giving brighter areas more juice/pop, which is why some say low works OK but may crush some blacks in certain scenes.

[tkdkid717]

So where is this dolbyvision update?

[mutelight]

Originally Posted by tkdkid717

So where is this dolbyvision update?

Unreleased.

As mentioned in this thread, they are advertising Dolby Vision on the product page so it is likely close.

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by tkdkid717

So where is this dolbyvision update?

There's no definitive pattern in the tea leaves, but the best prognosticators have been saying end of summer or August for a while. With the aforementioned changes on the Sony webpages I personally will guess August/September.

Our patience continues to be tested, but I keep chanting "just breathe".

I haven't purchased any DV content yet either due to prices (Despicable Me's are catalogs so should be lower like Sony catalog's) or lack of interest. Definitely am hot for Red 1&2, and Spidey:Homecoming (if true) when they are released, will be a day one buy.

[elwaylite]

To be honest, with only one halfway reliable player and not that many discs yet, calm down...

[mutelight]

Originally Posted by elwaylite

To be honest, with only one halfway reliable player and not that many discs yet, calm down...

There is conflicting information but some sources are saying that Westworld Season 1 may be graded in Dolby Vision. I am patiently waiting with my only hope being that if it is in DV, we receive the update before then.

Either that or before the new Apple TV which is supposedly going to support HDR10 and Dolby Vision. I will likely move to that from the Shield if the Shield doesn't get support.

But yeah, content is limited with 5 4K Blu-rays and like 14 pieces of content between Netflix and Amazon combined, which are graded in Dolby Vision.

[tkdkid717]

Originally Posted by mutelight

There is conflicting information but some sources are saying that Westworld Season 1 may be graded in Dolby Vision. I am patiently waiting with my only hope being that if it is in DV, we receive the update before then.

Either that or before the new Apple TV which is supposedly going to support HDR10 and Dolby Vision. I will likely move to that from the Shield if the Shield doesn't get support.

But yeah, content is limited with 5 4K Blu-rays and like 14 pieces of content between Netflix and Amazon combined, which are graded in Dolby Vision.

The 114 UHD titles on VUDU are all Dolby Vision.

[elwaylite]

Not sure why anyone with a $5k display would worry with Vudu DV or HDR when HDR discs are out there for new movies.

[mutelight]

Originally Posted by tkdkid717

The 114 UHD titles on VUDU are all Dolby Vision.

True but I didn't mention those because these Sonys don't do 4K in the Vudu app.

Also, I am unaware of any external device that will do it and is limited to TVs that have DV support and an app that supports it, like my LG in the other room.

[elwaylite]

The Vudu argument is flawed when it comes to DV support, sorry. As stated above, lack of HW support for one. Two, they have terrible studio support for UHD, period. Three, cost, even when you can rent their UHD it's almost stupid to rent at Vudu costs vs disc. Purchasing Vudu UHD is often MORE than discs.

Let's be honest about DV at this point:

• Studio and disc support is currently low
• Display support is low
• Player support is terrible
• AV Receiver support is terrible
• DV vs HDR10 is unproven and often comes down to display performance
• Some displays can offer calibration of HDR10 mode, where they do not in DV mode (controls are locked)

It's a damn mess, which is why I do not even sweat Sony not offering DV for another month or two. I will most likely keep using the X800 until I see if Sony will offer a DV model for 2018. Also want to see if the Sony's with the X1 Extreme chip get the ability to load DV calibration to the engine using Calman, like LG has done for 2017 OLEDs.

[tkdkid717]

Originally Posted by mutelight

True but I didn't mention those because these Sonys don't do 4K in the Vudu app.

Also, I am unaware of any external device that will do it and is limited to TVs that have DV support and an app that supports it, like my LG in the other room.

Chromecast does Dolby Vision. I also think it's very likely the VUDU app will go 4k on Sony TV's once they are Dolby Vision capable.

[DJR662]

I'm in the same boat as you, I'm not sweating the lack of DV on my Sony gear either. Not too many DV movies coming out anyway plus I'm too busy enjoying the "ordinary" HDR.

I'll just wait it out what happens with DV, not in any rush to find out.

[mutelight]

Originally Posted by tkdkid717

Chromecast does Dolby Vision. I also think it's very likely the VUDU app will go 4k on Sony TV's once they are Dolby Vision capable.

Gotcha. I always knew that Chromecast Ultra was released stating DV support but last I looked, which was a while ago, it wasn't supported but it must be now.

But as elwaylite mentioned, Vudu 4K HDR is a fairly bad value prop compared to cheaper and higher quality 4K Blu-rays.

The only time I use it is for 4K and HDX UV redeemed titles when I am away from my discs.

My other TV is Dolby Vision enabled and I think I have watched a total of maybe 20 minutes of DV content.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by elwaylite

Let's be honest about DV at this point:

• Studio and disc support is currently low
• Display support is low
• Player support is terrible
• AV Receiver support is terrible

Sounds like home Atmos support in 2014. Now look at Atmos today.

[Geoff D]

Did yet another calibration run yesterday, I threw everything out and started over after reading the AVS review of the 65A1E, they said that they didn't use the Bias white balance controls because they affected the black levels. So I only used the Gain this time and, just for shits and giggles, used the Cinema Pro rather than Cinema Home for HDR. Heck of it is this simple white balance adjustment translated perfectly into SDR too (I'm even using different meter profiles for HDR and SDR so it's not just reading the same thing, not that it would when switching from Ryan's HDR patterns to the SDR patterns on the GCD test disc anyway).

I set the contrast to a point where the image was being clipped at 2000 nits and I got a more accurate luminance curve, I mentioned before that I didn't mind having it roll off in the higher registers but I've noticed some brutal artefacts during certain brightly lit parts in some movies, likes Supes floating in space in BvS. I think this was entirely because they weren't being represented with enough luminance where the artefact would be hidden or at least lessened, and although I'm losing >2000 nit highlight detail I'm getting a more natural looking HDR range rather than something which keeps fairly restrained and then POW jumps all the way up to 1900 nits. I mean, it's still registering that bright at its peak (1866 nits) but the luminance in-between is being reproduced properly.

As for the whole 'dynamic' thing about the Sony's HDR handling I think Vincent is indeed correct, the processing doesn't dynamically adjust clipping in HDR as this is governed by whatever contrast level/picture mode you're using (the clipping being more aggressive on the A1E owing to them wanting to keep the APL up) but perhaps it adjusts the brightness output itself in a dynamic way, e.g. taking a 1000-nit disc and making it 'fit' the higher brightness of the display?

I think the clipping thing holds true for the ZD9 as well as the A1E, it's been set to what this particular TV can handle 'natively' just as it has been on the A1E. So if you start to push the contrast back to retain more highlight information then you'll get more but it comes at the expense of the curve not tracking correctly, which is of course what 10K has been saying all along.

[DJR662]

Don't you wish you needed to do a calibration just once, knowing everything is set like it ought to be and never look back?

So are you using Pro now for both SDR and HDR or did you revert to your previous settings separately for SDR (Pro) and HDR (Home) after the calibration?