Panasonic UB820/UB9000 4K UHD Blu-ray player

[elwaylite]

Is it correct that not only do you have to select TV Type, but also turn HDR Opt On in the options menu with a disc in, to get the display based tone mapping? Not just selecting OLED in the menu?

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by elwaylite

Is it correct that not only do you have to select TV Type, but also turn HDR Opt On in the options menu with a disc in, to get the display based tone mapping? Not just selecting OLED in the menu?

That is correct. If using the HDR modes (NOT SDR2020 or SDR709) you select your display type in the setup menu. This tells the optimizer what type of display you are trying to tone map to. Then turning the Optimizer ON engages the tone map.

Be advised, when you turn the Optimizer ON, not only does it tone map, it actually CHANGES the HDR metadata. This means that not only are you overlaying a tone map onto the one the display is already doing, but the different metadata may actually change what your display does with the image if it uses the metadata in its tone mapping. YMMV when it comes to how this all plays out, as every display may handle this aspect differently.

[elwaylite]

Thanks. The Sony OLED just runs up to what it can do and rolls off and clips, so I think the Panny compressing 4000 nit stuff down will help me preserve detail, but I figure it should not affect much else.

When I look at nit test bars, the Sony will preserve up to about 1000 and thats it.

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by elwaylite

Thanks. The Sony OLED just runs up to what it can do and rolls off and clips, so I think the Panny compressing 4000 nit stuff down will help me preserve detail, but I figure it should not affect much else.

When I look at nit test bars, the Sony will preserve up to about 1000 and thats it.

Hmm. Interesting. I am surprised that Sony would clip, I was under the impression that they are doing frame by frame tone mapping, so it changes based on the content. A very respected calibrator friend of mine has the 77" Sony OLED and measured a peak of 700 nits, so using the OLED setting would probably be fine for comparison. It is based on 1000 nits, but is slightly different in its mapping than the medium brightness LCD setting that is also 1000 nits.

[elwaylite]

Yeah, both my A1E and A8F are around 650-670 nits 10% white window.

If you look at the EOTF, they run up to around there and roll off (mine are both calibrated). I am not sure on the frame by frame tone mapping, but I do know instead of dimming the image down to keep high nit highlights like LG, they clip the detail and keep the overall screen brighter.

[curlyjive]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

If you are using the SDR2020 mode of the UB820 with your projector, it defaults to a 1000 nit based tone map. If you turn HDR Optimizer to ON, it changes the tone map based on the MaxCLL or MaxDML (if MaxCLL if not provided). If you leave the dynamic range slider to 0, it is assuming a 350 nit display, so think of this as your multiplier. I personally recommend a multiplier of between 4 and 6 for projector use, so if you know your peak white in nits, times it by that number and adjust the slider. The brightest setting in the slider is for 100 nits, so you'll have to figure out where you are as I'm not sure what each tick represents.

More often than not I would recommend you leave the Optimizer ON. This should provide the best results for most titles. The one exception that is EASY to see is Sicario as it reports a MaxCLL of 0 and MaxDML of 4000. If the tone map is done to 4000 it looks very dingy. Since the true MaxCLL is 1200, the default 1000 nit map is the better compromise. You can see the DRASTIC difference in the opening shot in the desert looking at the neighborhood and mountains in the background if you toggle between Off and On in the Optimizer.

Interesting....so just toggling the optimizer on and off during playback, but not actually making any adjustments still changes the tone map for SDR BT2020 output? I just turned mine on to access the controls so I never looked it it set to off.

Have you seen any negative affects of adjusting the Dynamic Range Slider, raised black level, excessive clipping, screwy gamma, ect? I feel like you do loose so contrast as you go higher and the image can look washed out. The control does basically say that.

Have you tried the brightness and black/white tone curve controls?

So my projector does about 12FtL. By eye, I feel like +2 to +4 is about right and I have been hesitant to go higher. Maybe I should though based on your findings?

[Kris Deering]

Haven't seen any issues with black/white settings. Obviously, as you go brighter you will lose overall contrast and vice versa, but that is EVERY solution. It is just the way HDR works.

I wouldn't over think it too much. Find a setting that works well with your setup and sit back and enjoy. There is no real "right" setting with this stuff as there is no standard.

[COACH10810]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

If you are using the SDR2020 mode of the UB820 with your projector, it defaults to a 1000 nit based tone map. If you turn HDR Optimizer to ON, it changes the tone map based on the MaxCLL or MaxDML (if MaxCLL if not provided). If you leave the dynamic range slider to 0, it is assuming a 350 nit display, so think of this as your multiplier. I personally recommend a multiplier of between 4 and 6 for projector use, so if you know your peak white in nits, times it by that number and adjust the slider. The brightest setting in the slider is for 100 nits, so you'll have to figure out where you are as I'm not sure what each tick represents.

More often than not I would recommend you leave the Optimizer ON. This should provide the best results for most titles. The one exception that is EASY to see is Sicario as it reports a MaxCLL of 0 and MaxDML of 4000. If the tone map is done to 4000 it looks very dingy. Since the true MaxCLL is 1200, the default 1000 nit map is the better compromise. You can see the DRASTIC difference in the opening shot in the desert looking at the neighborhood and mountains in the background if you toggle between Off and On in the Optimizer.

This is a great explanation Kris.

I am not planning on using the SDR 2020 mode much at all. Mostly because I have had my projector calibrated by ChadB. He recently updated my low lamp curve and gave me a high lamp curve as well. Ideally I would prefer not to use my high lamp mode due to the fan noise, but I can usually "get used it" if it is an action movie.

Just want to make sure I am understanding your explanation of the multiplier. If I remember correctly, my low lamp curve produces right around 60 or 61 nits. Then I think my high lamp curve was in the 80's, but still need to confirm this from Chad. My room is pitch black, so that does help me too.

Is the 60 what I would multiply by 4 or 6 to figure out what setting to use for the Optimizer?

Thanks.

[curlyjive]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

Haven't seen any issues with black/white settings. Obviously, as you go brighter you will lose overall contrast and vice versa, but that is EVERY solution. It is just the way HDR works.

I wouldn't over think it too much. Find a setting that works well with your setup and sit back and enjoy. There is no real "right" setting with this stuff as there is no standard.

Will do Kris! Have you tested the black and white tone curve settings and the brightness setting to see what they are really doing?

I could see lowering the black tone curve setting if you bump the dynamic range control to help with contrast as long as you aren't clipping anything.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

Hmm. Interesting. I am surprised that Sony would clip, I was under the impression that they are doing frame by frame tone mapping, so it changes based on the content. A very respected calibrator friend of mine has the 77" Sony OLED and measured a peak of 700 nits, so using the OLED setting would probably be fine for comparison. It is based on 1000 nits, but is slightly different in its mapping than the medium brightness LCD setting that is also 1000 nits.

Re: the Sony, that's a negatory. They ignore the incoming metadata and simply clip according to where the contrast is set, the 'frame by frame' thing is hogwash. Helps to maintain APL but highlight clipping becomes more aggressive the further down the brightness ladder they go.

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by COACH10810

This is a great explanation Kris.

I am not planning on using the SDR 2020 mode much at all. Mostly because I have had my projector calibrated by ChadB. He recently updated my low lamp curve and gave me a high lamp curve as well. Ideally I would prefer not to use my high lamp mode due to the fan noise, but I can usually "get used it" if it is an action movie.

Just want to make sure I am understanding your explanation of the multiplier. If I remember correctly, my low lamp curve produces right around 60 or 61 nits. Then I think my high lamp curve was in the 80's, but still need to confirm this from Chad. My room is pitch black, so that does help me too.

Is the 60 what I would multiply by 4 or 6 to figure out what setting to use for the Optimizer?

Thanks.

Yes. In your case I would just start with the default zero setting on the slider, which is 350 nits, so it falls right in there. Then you could compare between that and your ChadB curve. I've heard nothing but raves about Chad's results, so I have no idea how much (if any) difference it would make.

I like this solution because it is plug and play, requires absolutely no black box in between the player/projector (HD Fury) and gives fantastic results with almost zero user input. For projector owners looking for a simple solution, it is a no brainer. With flat panels, YMMV depending on the capability of the display in use.

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Re: the Sony, that's a negatory. They ignore the incoming metadata and simply clip according to where the contrast is set, the 'frame by frame' thing is hogwash. Helps to maintain APL but highlight clipping becomes more aggressive the further down the brightness ladder they go.

Bummer. I haven't tested any Sony flat panels. I had the chance to go over to Dave Abrahm's place this week and look at his OLED (Sony) and he has it dialed in to the 9's. Looked fantastic on everything we looked at, but not sure what his settings/calibration was.

[hgwy407]

Mine showed up bright and early this morning. Just now getting her setup. I spoke to Robert this morning and I have to say it again, he is a truly a wonderful person. Thank you again Robert, you have a loyal customer now in me and my family.

[makeusleep]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

If you are using the SDR2020 mode of the UB820 with your projector, it defaults to a 1000 nit based tone map. If you turn HDR Optimizer to ON, it changes the tone map based on the MaxCLL or MaxDML (if MaxCLL if not provided). If you leave the dynamic range slider to 0, it is assuming a 350 nit display, so think of this as your multiplier. I personally recommend a multiplier of between 4 and 6 for projector use, so if you know your peak white in nits, times it by that number and adjust the slider. The brightest setting in the slider is for 100 nits, so you'll have to figure out where you are as I'm not sure what each tick represents.

More often than not I would recommend you leave the Optimizer ON. This should provide the best results for most titles. The one exception that is EASY to see is Sicario as it reports a MaxCLL of 0 and MaxDML of 4000. If the tone map is done to 4000 it looks very dingy. Since the true MaxCLL is 1200, the default 1000 nit map is the better compromise. You can see the DRASTIC difference in the opening shot in the desert looking at the neighborhood and mountains in the background if you toggle between Off and On in the Optimizer.

I have the JVC RS500 about 13 ft away from a 133" 1.0 gain screen. I downloaded the BT2020 color profile to use with sdr to hdr. I am receiving the 820 today. Best settings would be sdr to hdr with hdr optimizer turned on? Will I still have the use of the RS500 dynamic iris with these settings. Thanks for your help!

[elwaylite]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

Bummer. I haven't tested any Sony flat panels. I had the chance to go over to Dave Abrahm's place this week and look at his OLED (Sony) and he has it dialed in to the 9's. Looked fantastic on everything we looked at, but not sure what his settings/calibration was.

I love my A8F and A1E. I think the 820 with the OLED setting will just add to the image.

[tommyboy81]

looks like Best Buy won't be selling these until the end of August

[edwinvs]

Originally Posted by Mobe1969

From the photos Robert posted, the 9000 has a very similar remote to the 900, larger, backlight, etc. Just some different buttons.

I wonder if the UB9000's remote will work with the UB820. Obviously, play and stop buttons will work, but will functions that are absent on the 820's remote work? Like for instance subtitle, -10s and +60s. Does anybody know if that's true for the UB900's remote? If it works there, it will probably work with the UB9000's remote as well.

[COACH10810]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

Yes. In your case I would just start with the default zero setting on the slider, which is 350 nits, so it falls right in there. Then you could compare between that and your ChadB curve. I've heard nothing but raves about Chad's results, so I have no idea how much (if any) difference it would make.

I like this solution because it is plug and play, requires absolutely no black box in between the player/projector (HD Fury) and gives fantastic results with almost zero user input. For projector owners looking for a simple solution, it is a no brainer. With flat panels, YMMV depending on the capability of the display in use.

Cool. I will stick with my low HDR curve, HDR Optimizer set to "On", with the standard setting. Then see how it performs tonight.

[Robert Zohn]

Originally Posted by tommyboy81

looks like Best Buy won't be selling these until the end of August

Panasonic selected our company (Value Electronics) as the exclusive launch partner for the UB820 and UB9000.

Our 1st allocation arrived Monday, July 30th. Here's a couple pictures of me with the 1st allotment.

[Robert Zohn]

Originally Posted by edwinvs

I wonder if the UB9000's remote will work with the UB820. Obviously, play and stop buttons will work, but will functions that are absent on the 820's remote work? Like for instance subtitle, -10s and +60s. Does anybody know if that's true for the UB900's remote? If it works there, it will probably work with the UB9000's remote as well.

I have an engineering sample of the UB9000 and although I've only tested the UB9000 remote on most of the functions they all worked fine of our UB820s.