Panasonic UB820/UB9000 4K UHD Blu-ray player

[Clark Burk]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

Alright; we can take that discussion to the other thread I created about the Samsung...

I suggest you contact OPPO about getting your 83 repaired. It sounds like most of your viewing is DVD which the 83 is excellent at. My 83 was acting up. I sent it back to OPPO knowing it was out of warranty. It turned out the drive had a history of acting up and they ended up replacing the drive at no cost other than the cost of me shipping it to them. They even covered the return shipping.

It sounds like you are not happy with the 820. I understand your disappointment and the fact that you have no 4k discs would prevent you from benefiting from most of its new features. If you are in your return window perhaps that would be a good option.

Hope you consider the repair option for your 83. It’s still a good player.

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

But a big difference in what? I didn't have a PROBLEM with the Blu-ray IMAGE on the 820...I don't care for the unit's aesthetics or its lack of DVD video support (for customization).

Difference in overall Picture quality of the details and color. with bad tone mapping, the picture can be very dark with HDR and there can be a lot of clipping of details or bright areas. with the settings on the Panasonic, you can restore the brightness and also the detail at the same time. When you watch an HDR source, you get access to a few more settings and picture modes to adjust the brightness of the picture, which comes in very handy with HDR.

here's an example by Chris Heinonen. Notice how much more detail is restored by using the Optimizer. the lightning bolts are essentially clipped away in this HDR scene when the optimizer is not turned on.

[IMG][/IMG]


Here's a video with a direct comparison of last years Panasonic UB900, but uses the exact same chip for upscaling as this years UB820/UB9000. the comparison is with the Cambridge UHD player. I really recommend watching this video on your tv if possible. its hard to see the difference on a cell phone, and even on a laptop, but on a tv you will see the difference when Vincent shows the upscaling comparison. On my 75" tv, the difference was massive. The Panasonic was much sharper and clearer with better texture while the Cambridge had a slight softness to it. (don't forget, you could also keep a cheaper BD player that has zoom for when you watch the 4:3 content that you like to zoom and use the Panny for everything else). for me personally, I'm going to be feeding the UB820 through my Oppo 203, which means I can take advantage of both the Panasonic and Oppo features at the same time, including the zoom feature if I desire to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ys6...youtu.be&t=189

[panasonicst60]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

I cannot speak for raw 4K performance as I don't have any discs as of yet, but did you not want me to provide my initial sentiments about the 820 as I experienced them? That's all I was doing...

My feedback is based on what I don't like about the unit AESTHETICALLY -- which is important to ME, not to others apparently -- as well as its functioning for legacy video formats (namely DVD playback). In my opinion, this unit doesn't look or feel like it should cost $500.

If you bought the Panasonic ub820 for DVDs and Blu-rays, do yourself a favor and return it immediately. This player is all about 4k uhds. You mentioned that the player's built quality is on par with cheaper uhd players, I believe you are exaggerating quite a bit. It is definitely not an oppo but better than any cheap player out there. I agree with you that it doesn't look or feel like a $500 unit, but more like $400. But for absolute performance wise it's worth a lot more to me. For goodness sakes, it's on par with the ub9000! If you want the best of both worlds, get the ub9000. Again, only if you play uhds. Yes, it's expensive. But you have to pay to play! By the way, I honestly can care less about DVDs because they are obsolete to me. To each his own. Good luck!

[White Hawk]

Hey folks, can someone help me, a few days ago I had to replace a Panasonic TX-50AX802B SDR 4K TV here in the UK as it started to die and couldn’t be fixed, fortunately Curry’s gave me the full £1500 I paid for that 4 years ago as a voucher against a new set so I replaced it with a LG C8.

I have a UB9000 player, and on the old SDR TV setting the Dynamic Range Adjustment to around 4-5, and I would have thought I’d be lowering it for a HDR TV, the instructions even state setting 0 for set the image as intended, but doing so is so so dim on the C8’s OLED that there’s no way that’s correct, and seems a setting around 8 is the best balance of brightness to highlight detail, doesn’t make a lot of sense to me so can anyone clear that up for me?

Thanks.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by ray0414

Difference in overall Picture quality of the details and color. with bad tone mapping, the picture can be very dark with HDR and there can be a lot of clipping of details or bright areas. with the settings on the Panasonic, you can restore the brightness and also the detail at the same time. When you watch an HDR source, you get access to a few more settings and picture modes to adjust the brightness of the picture, which comes in very handy with HDR.

here's an example by Chris Heinonen. Notice how much more detail is restored by using the Optimizer. the lightning bolts are essentially clipped away in this HDR scene when the optimizer is not turned on.

[Show spoiler][IMG][/IMG]

Here's a video with a direct comparison of last years Panasonic UB900, but uses the exact same chip for upscaling as this years UB820/UB9000. the comparison is with the Cambridge UHD player. I really recommend watching this video on your tv if possible. its hard to see the difference on a cell phone, and even on a laptop, but on a tv you will see the difference when Vincent shows the upscaling comparison. On my 75" tv, the difference was massive. The Panasonic was much sharper and clearer with better texture while the Cambridge had a slight softness to it. (don't forget, you could also keep a cheaper BD player that has zoom for when you watch the 4:3 content that you like to zoom and use the Panny for everything else). for me personally, I'm going to be feeding the UB820 through my Oppo 203, which means I can take advantage of both the Panasonic and Oppo features at the same time, including the zoom feature if I desire to.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ys6...youtu.be&t=189

The Panny chips oversharpen chroma by a significant amount, also piling on luma sharpening with sub-4K content unless Edge Correction is set to +1, it's no wonder it looks so much better to some people but it's not my cup of tea. My OPPO's in the shop getting looked at so I'm currently using the Panny UB390 and the Sony X800 (which uses MediaTek silicon like the OPPO, albeit not custom) and switching between them the Panny looks noticeably harsher to my eyes. There's a glossiness to what the Sony and OPPO do with their output that I really dig, it's all about what we prefer at the end of the day. Panny is still broken when it comes to playback of 480i content tho

[Robert Zohn]

Geoff, we've discussed this earlier in this thread and you even sited David Mackenzie to verify the significant over-sharping chroma and luma sharping. Here's the link to David Mackenzie's reply where he does not agree with your claims.

Here's the link to Kris Deering's review in Sound and Vision. The review is very thorough and does not reference any chroma or luma over-sharping.

For the record, I don't see any over-sharping of any kind, but I do see the slightly sharper image and credit that to Panasonic's superior chroma processing.

Other than this one item, we have agreed on every other subject. May I ask for any proof on your claims.

[Geoff D]

Eh? He posted this which clearly mentions it. Funny how we can read things and get completely different interpretations out of them.

Chroma:

I like their take on chroma upsampling in theory, although especially on TV sized screens, the effects will be very hard to discern with most live action content on BD. It's potentially much more useful for upscaling DVD's 360x240 or 360x288 chroma channels than it is for BD. It's been noted that what they're doing to Cb and Cr can leave colored ringing, most visible on test charts but I've found lowering the Chroma sharpness control basically gets rid of it, but it'll almost never be visible in content anyway. I need to ido more tests with that to see if that introduces any other collateral damage. It's mild either way.

Luma:

I also really, really like the Edge Correction feature which can be clicked up a notch to remove ringing caused by the scaler.

[Geoff D]

Note that David also says that the effect of the much-vaunted chroma upsampling will be hard to spot either way, but the amount of people that prefer the extra sharpness of the Panny can't be a coincidence. However it's achieved I just don't prefer it, and I don't need "proof" to say as such.

[Robert Zohn]

Geoff, to preserve page lengths I won't repost where I'd also suggest reading the quotes you sited and taking says as his overall feelings on the two processing functions.

"I like their take on chroma upsampling"


David goes on further in reply to the claim of any defect(s) in the image quality.

"but it'll almost never be visible in content anyway."

Now here's the surprising part of this. I remember David as no to Edge Correction. Surprisingly he says...
"I also really, really like the Edge Correction feature which can be clicked up a notch"

[Geoff D]

David did the review of the UB900 for HDTVtest a couple of years ago and he mentioned the Edge Correction there too, so you're misremembering. He also makes specific reference to the sharpening of the chroma channels, including the halos they produce: https://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/pana...1605154293.htm And FWIW I was the first person to actually report the Edge Correction fix a full two and a half years ago when I first got the UB900, the HDTVtest review even mentioned the exact same test pattern I noticed it on which can't be a coincidence.

I know what his overall feelings are on the chroma, but now you're moving the goalposts. I said there's sharpening on both luma and chroma and he agrees, he just doesn't think it's an issue in motion on most real-world content. Do I see the specific edge halos (ringing) on proper content unless I peer really hard? No. Does the Panny's image still have an overall "harder" look that I don't like? You bet.

[AKORIS]

my order shipped from Best Buy and I'm excited to test out the player!!

I was wondering if I could get a couple opinions from people regarding the initial settings.

Are the initial settings pretty good to begin with before monkeying around with everything?

I like a colorful, bright picture that also maintains strong blacks.

I will be using this player 95% of the time watching 4k and regular blu rays.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

[Show spoiler]Okay -- the 820 arrived today, and I just spent the last few hours setting it up with my new AudioQuest HDMI cable (direct to my TV). Here is what struck me off the bat:

This player may not be for me, after all -- size-wise, this thing is a complete JOKE. I couldn't believe, when I first laid eyes on the box, how small this is, especially compared to the OPPO BDP-83 I am replacing with the 820. Taking it out of the box, I was struck by the light weight and cheap feel about the whole thing; honestly -- this player should NOT cost $500. The top -- that looks like aluminum ribbing -- is complete plastic that smudges as soon as you touch it. To keep it real, this player feels like one of those $199 Samsungs or LGs, which is NOT what I wanted; it's REALLY unimpressive in terms of aesthetics.

The remote is ridiculously small and cheap-feeling, as well, and the lack of backlighting puts me off too (though I was kind of prepared for that). This thing takes up HALF the shelf space my OPPO did, and you can actually SEE the available room to the left and right of the player on my shelf in the cabinet it's in (part of our entertainment center), which was covered up completely due to the BDP-83's heft and dimensions. It really does look and feel cheap, right down to the somewhat flimsy front drop-down panel (something I hated about Panasonic's first generation Blu-ray player, which I still own, the DMP-BD10A).

Beyond aesthetics, setup seemed basic enough, but I KNOW I have some settings not adjusted right...which I worried about and expressed my concerns about to everyone in this thread. I have the 820 running directly to my Samsung NU8000 display via HDMI VIDEO OUT and then another HDMI cable is going from the HDMI AUDIO out jack to my receiver to continue receiving the lossless formats via bitstream. My Samsung automatically updated its "HDMI UHD COLOR" setting for the HDMI input the Panasonic is connected to, so it has been engaged, but there are a ton of "advanced settings" in the player that I have NO idea are set right or not based on my system.

Also -- I did not see any NOISE REDUCTION options, which I thought this player had...do these pop up when a disc is playing when the settings button is pressed on the remote, and is that how you access them?

There are also questions I have regarding the 820's on-screen description of what happens when HDMI AUDIO OUT and HDMI AUDIO/VIDEO OUT are both connected at the same time (which they are in my setup) -- according to Panasonic's on-screen prompt in one of the setup menus, using both HDMI OUTs will NOT allow 4K video to be displayed, which I don't understand...if I use both these output jacks, I won't be able to watch UHD discs?

And what about DVD playback -- there were no settings in the setup menu for DVD playback parameters of any kind...is this normal? What about display options, such as 16X9, 16X9 WIDE, etc...I didn't see any of these...

I did some testing by playing a bit of the Disney Blu-ray of Haunted Mansion, and the Samsung confirmed it was receiving "2160p/24" from the player...so the player must have been upconverting the Blu-ray to 4K. I'll have more time to play with the 820 later when we sit down to actually watch something.

All in all, I'm not impressed yet -- I may return this and try to find a way to get the Cambridge player, if it's anything like the OPPO decks. But I don't even know if Cambridge is still selling their UHD disc player...

Strictly aesthetically speaking, design wise, build solidity...I agree 100% with you.
The Panasonic 820 doesn't approach a $499 4K Blu-ray player.
It is more like a $199 player.

Our opinion are on the same page here. Ope Hopo was still around, the 203 would have suit you well...I think...future-proof, bullit-proof, all that near jazz.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by panasonicst60

If you bought the Panasonic ub820 for DVDs and Blu-rays, do yourself a favor and return it immediately. This player is all about 4k uhds. You mentioned that the player's built quality is on par with cheaper uhd players, I believe you are exaggerating quite a bit. It is definitely not an oppo but better than any cheap player out there. I agree with you that it doesn't look or feel like a $500 unit, but more like $400. But for absolute performance wise it's worth a lot more to me. For goodness sakes, it's on par with the ub9000! If you want the best of both worlds, get the ub9000. Again, only if you play uhds. Yes, it's expensive. But you have to pay to play! By the way, I honestly can care less about DVDs because they are obsolete to me. To each his own. Good luck!

I have every intention on returning it. I just purchased the Cambridge via a site that a generous member here told me about.

I'm exaggerating quite a bit about this player's build quality? Yeah, okay -- I picked up one of the Samsung players at Best Buy and compared it to the Panasonic when I received it, and they FELT THE SAME in hand...I could balance both players with my FINGER. THAT'S ridiculous and shouldn't warrant a $500 price tag, as Bob, me and others have agreed upon. So don't tell me that's an exaggeration with regard to the build and heft.

You don't care about DVD playback? Good for you -- I do and I have a TON of money wrapped up in the format that I cannot take a loss on. Unfortunately, I didn't do my homework regarding DVD performance before I bought the 820, but so be it; I am going to try the more premium option in the Cambridge.

[HeavyHitter]

There is no UHD BD player that touches the 820 tone mapping. None. For those with very high nit displays and decent internal tone mapping it may not matter, but for those outside of that (and there are a lot!)...

But it also depends on priorities. Some rather have high priced, high quality build quality over performance. Not I. It reminds me of some people's projector rooms; bright red colors, reflections, and design to look "cool" versus creating the darkest, blackest room possible for optimal PQ which means not as attractive.

[Cortiz]

I have both the 820 and the Sony 1000es. The Panny produces awesome PQ for both 4K and regular BD's. However, when comparing it with my X1000es, I just don't see much of a difference if at all when connected to my 2016 55' Sony TV. Because of this, I just kept using the X1000es since all my equipment is Sony and the player integrates seamless with the other Sony equipment.

[grodd]

I would agree. I find this the best player on the market for tone mapping and least objectionable amount of processing errors for Blu rays and UHDs. A must for projectors or OLED TV's.

Sony is a non starter for me due to multiple small processing areas around small text and banding which is often noticeable on real world content.

Oppo has some minor banding / color issues and is bit softer which I'm not a fan of, but has a cool DV function.

On the minor negatives for the Panny, I wish the 820 had a better remote and I don't understand why the 9000 has more software options like Gamma.

Its a very simple fix to add, which some 3rd parties have already done.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Here's the link to Kris Deering's review in Sound and Vision. The review is very thorough and does not reference any chroma or luma over-sharping.

Sound and Vision just doesn't conduct thorough technical reviews Robert. In fact I would say that there is a specific absence of technicality with most of the player reviews out there analyzing picture quality to a battery of tests. They just gloss over that. Just my opinion.

[Geoff D]

Yeah, the first thing I thought when I read that review of the 820 (not just now, when it first appeared) is that it isn't really a "thorough review" of the machine at all (as Kris says, it's damned near identical to the 900) and is instead a lengthy look at the newer tone mapping features. Which is great for those who need such things...but I don't.

[IITravel01]

I'm really impressed with the build quality of the Panasonic UP9000 and looking forward to its release in the U.S. $1,000 seems like a fair price if the Cambridge is now $800.

Panasonic DP-UB9000 UHD 4K Blu-ray Player - YouTube

[Robert Zohn]

Thanks for ^ sharing, nice video showing the 360 degree view and under the cover.

Now for some good/bad news, 1st two USA allotments of UB9000s are sold out and we are now accepting reservations for the February allocation.