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#3621 |
Special Member
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seems
that 'many' do not know that the display/player manufactures(s) have 'final say' (adjustment - 'after Dolby does it's best work') - which i find 'unacceptable' yet 'understandable' or manufactures would not support Dolby Vision (at all)
Last edited by jibucha; 05-27-2019 at 07:58 AM. |
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#3622 | |
Blu-ray Knight
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Robert - if you are in contact with Panasonic dev anymore, would it be possible for you to ask if they can make the subtitle settings stick, or have defaults, like the Oppo does. At the moment, it doesn't even stick on disk resume. |
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#3623 | |
Blu-ray Ninja
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Peak luminance: isn't that THE point of Dolby Vision? To map movie accurately depending on TV's capability? Since I remember ot was advertised being exactly this: dynamic metadata with scene by scene, even frame by frame, tone mapping. So what now, it was a lie and Panasonic is the only company that knows how to map HDR? ![]() As for Optimiser itself, it all sounds good but for most movies it doesn't work. (Of course I'm talking only about ON/OFF and not the rest more advanced options which I don't want to change) On my OLED, with OLED set as TV type in UB820 options, it works only for movies with highlights waaay above 1000 nits: Batman v Superman, Mad Max: Fury Road, Starship Troopers, Man of Steel. It also works in some shots of Blade Runner, Wonder Woman or Interstellar. When it comes to Dolby Vision, Black Panther for example looks superior to both HDR10 presentation without and with dynamic tone mapping on my OLED. |
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#3624 |
Senior Member
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And maybe a size option also? Most have large displays these days and there is no need for giant sized subtitles.
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Thanks given by: |
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#3626 | |
Member
May 2019
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Sad to read this but you may be right unfortunately...... |
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Thanks given by: | Mierzwiak (05-27-2019) |
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#3627 |
Blu-ray Samurai
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Thanks given by: | Agent Kay (05-27-2019), Robert Zohn (05-27-2019) |
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#3628 |
Banned
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#3629 | ||
Retailer Insider
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Since everyone has been focused on the peak luminance abilities of the HDR Optimizer I wanted to explain one more of the important exclusive features the the HDR Optimizer does that helps it deliver HDR content specifically optimized to your display's capability while maintaining the content creator's intent. I used the example of an OLED TV as it makes it easy to understand this additional benefit of Panasonic UB820s and UB9000s. In reply to your comment about Dolby Vision's HDR metadata I am sorry to report that it does not tone map the content. All current tone mapping can only be done in your display's processing (unless you have an external Lumagen or build a few of your own custom tone curves and are proactive in selecting them as needed) Dolby Vision does report frame by frame metadata on the content's minimum and peak luminance, but that's all it does and it's your TV or projector that has to do it's best to take the information and apply it to the best of its ability. |
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Thanks given by: | Clark Burk (05-30-2019), nachoju95 (05-27-2019) |
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#3630 |
Active Member
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And maybe an option to add external subtitles? It would be an excellent feature for the player.
Last edited by nachoju95; 05-27-2019 at 02:41 PM. |
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#3631 |
Retailer Insider
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For all of the great discussions in this thread, I just wanted to say thank you, and to anyone that I replied to, I appreciate the excellent questions, of which I wanted to reply as quickly and briefly as possible so here's my personal thanks!
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#3632 | ||
Blu-ray Ninja
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![]() It doesn't change black levels, it doesn't change APL, so how can you say minimum luminance matters? ![]() Like I already said, and I repeat it, in most movies it doesn't work even in scenes where LG's Dynamic Tone Mapping actually brings highlight details. For example in second Kingsman, in shot's like this one https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/scree...961&position=7 glass bricks and reflections are overblown. Enabling Optimiser does exactly nothing but Dynamic Tone Mapping not only changes APL of that shot and makes it little bit darker, but also brings back overblown glass bricks and details in reflections. Why LG's Dynamic Tone Mapping "knows" that there are clipped highlights, but Optimiser doesn't? Quote:
![]() Last edited by Mierzwiak; 05-27-2019 at 05:09 PM. |
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#3633 |
Special Member
![]() Mar 2010
Portishead ♫
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If the job of the 4K BR player is to pass an accurate Dolby Vision data to the TV and the TV to interpolate it from its video chip computational processing, then all 4K BR players supporting Dolby Vision are not passing the data equally. It was quite clear in one of Theo' s technical videos.
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#3634 | ||
Blu-ray Samurai
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So, I'm sorry if this question is a bit simplistic, but how is the minimum and peak luminance determined by Panasonic, i.e., a fixed assumption based on a pre-determined setting, e.g., OLED, or by some other method? With so many minimum and peak luminance variations within product lines and manufacture dates for a specific setting, e.g., OLED, is one to assume that these variations are unimportant, e.g., the difference between a B8 and a C8, or a B6 and a C9? Would not the manufacturer, given the relationship between the a specific panel, model and software, be in a better position to determine how to tone map the content than an external source that treats all panels and software as the same? I guess my question here is what is the difference between the process of the HDR Optimizer in comparison to the tone mapping conducted by the TV, e.g., LG, and how is that difference visible to the user? When someone cites 'superior,' is it a subjective interpretation or is it measurable? The other aspect of this explanation that is baffling is why does DV content appear superior to HDR10 content that applies LG DTM, at least on my C8? Somehow, Panasonic has determined that player-specific processing is a superior approach to both title-specific Dolby Vision mastering and TV-specific tone-mapping, which is a bit of a surprise since as noted in my opening sentence, the setting is no more than an assumption based on a very broad type, e.g., all OLEDs. I'm really not sure how their approach, i.e., player-specific processing, is going to play out as improved/12-bit panels are introduced and exponential improvements are made in TV processors and related software. It all seems counter-intuitive. |
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#3635 |
Special Member
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simple
Last edited by jibucha; 05-27-2019 at 06:19 PM. |
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Thanks given by: | Mierzwiak (05-27-2019) |
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#3637 | |
Special Member
![]() Mar 2010
Portishead ♫
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It doesn't really matter, the new Panasonic players with the Optimizer have beneficial advantages for many viewers. They should be everywhere available and for less. That's my opinion of course. |
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#3638 | |
Member
Mar 2019
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#3640 |
Retailer Insider
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Panasonic's HDR Optimizer does rebuild the entire HDR EOTF PQ. It helps low APL content show all of the dynamic range so the images don't look as flat. This improvement in the low APL image is most apparent with projectors that are connect to the UB9000 set to Basic Luminance 350 Nit max tone mapping peak.
The example I used for OLED TV owners is correct as since only Panasonic's HDR Optimizer uses it's knowledge of your TV characteristics and then it reads the content's metadata to know how to rebuild the EOTF PQ curve and take advantage of all of the dynamic range that your specific display can deliver. So just for example, using a modern OLED TV that is capable of producing perfect black and go up to 840 Nits the HDR Optimizer will start the PQ at the exact reported MLL and perfectly rebuild the HDR PQ curve up to 1,000 Nits. In many cases the MLL meta data is 0 Nits. Now if you have a bright LCD/LED TV that may be able to reach down to maybe .04 Nit MLL (assuming no bright object is also in the dimming zone) and go up to 1,300 Nits peak and the metadata reports .02 Nit MLL and 1,800 Nits peak the HDR Optimizer will raise the black floor to your display's capability of .04 Nits and start building the EOTF PQ from .04 Nits to a max of 1,500 Nits so your TV's processor can take over to complete the final tone mapping. Regarding logos showing elevated blacks, please consider that the actual HDR PQ does not typically start until the movie starts. Much if not all of the previews, opening logos and menus are in SDR. |
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Tags |
panasonic, ub820, ub9000, value electronics |
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