Panasonic UB820/UB9000 4K UHD Blu-ray player

[Naiera]

[Better in Blu]

Brighter doesn't always mean better.

[fmen]

Originally Posted by Ruined

5000 dimming zones

With OLED each pixel is its own dimming zone! I see your 5000 and I raise my 4K OLED 8294400 zones…

[Naiera]

OLEDs today have enough brightness.

[samuelkhan999]

Originally Posted by Ruined

QN90A, 1600nit / 1000zone mini led

Love it overall

Biggest issues - some select instances cause local dimming artifacts, such as the Panasonic UHD menus on a black background; occasional glitching out of SmartThings remote/phone automation/control (cant complain too much since its an awesome app); motion can look a little unnaturally juddery in 24p in some of the display modes

Things I love about it - amazing brightness makes it highly usable at any time of day / any viewing environment, so it can function as both a living room TV and a cinema display; great contrast so blacks are black thanks to the local dimming algorithm; can leave it on all day displaying whatever and have to worry at all about burn-in; super punchy HDR thanks to the brightness capabilities; phone app to control the TV is excellent; while i dont use them, best speakers ive heard on a TV; UI for streaming apps is both intuitive and modern looking/feeling; seems to do well at smart handling of HDMI inputs

Also got the 50 inch qn94a which is essential another version of the qn90a

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Naiera

OLEDs today have enough brightness.

Considering many transfers have HDR grades with 4000+ peak nits in portions of highlights, OLEDs today are often displaying a downconversion of the HDR grade. This doesnt apply to all films - like Roman Holiday there won't be a difference with a 5000nit set. But a lot of the more recently made blockbusters are up there in brightness, and neither today's OLEDs nor MINI LEDs can display the full range of brightness intended by the filmmaker.

I think a lot of people misunderstand this concept and think "my OLED is bright enough," but we are not talking about a 5000nit full screen brightness. We are talking about highlights of highlights, which current TVs basically have to clip off or aggressively tonemap because they can't reproduce them. This is also why dynamic tonemapping helps so much on today's TVs, because for many films they can't come anywhere near the intended brightness of the HDR grade.

But, these 2024 MINI LEDs can display that full range in HDR. No more HDR downconversion needed. It still won't be as good as MicroLED, which will have all that brightness plus per-pixel dimming, but its a big step ahead of what we have today.

Originally Posted by fmen

With OLED each pixel is its own dimming zone! I see your 5000 and I raise my 4K OLED 8294400 zones…

Sure, with the massive asterisk that each pixel dimming zone is at up to 1/4 the brightness or even less intended in some movies. A lot of zones are great, but less zones that can actually achieve the HDR grade as intended are better IMO

MicroLED is the eventual destination, is it can do the intended HDR grade brightness and lack of burn-in of MINI LED, while also doing per pixel dimming. But that will be very expensive for a long time, so these 2024+ MINI LEDs are the next best option for the true HDR experience w/o downconversion for the many films whose HDR grades are >1000nits peak.

[NeilZ]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Considering many transfers have HDR grades with 4000+ peak nits in portions of highlights, OLEDs today are often displaying a downconversion of the HDR grade. This doesnt apply to all films - like Roman Holiday there won't be a difference with a 5000nit set. But a lot of the more recently made blockbusters are up there in brightness, and neither today's OLEDs nor MINI LEDs can display the full range of brightness intended by the filmmaker.

I think a lot of people misunderstand this concept and think "my OLED is bright enough," but we are not talking about a 5000nit full screen brightness. We are talking about highlights of highlights, which current TVs basically have to clip off or aggressively tonemap because they can't reproduce them. This is also why dynamic tonemapping helps so much on today's TVs, because for many films they can't come anywhere near the intended brightness of the HDR grade.

But, these 2024 MINI LEDs can display that full range in HDR. No more HDR downconversion needed. It still won't be as good as MicroLED, which will have all that brightness plus per-pixel dimming, but its a big step ahead of what we have today.



Sure, with the massive asterisk that each pixel dimming zone is at up to 1/4 the brightness or even less intended in some movies. A lot of zones are great, but less zones that can actually achieve the HDR grade as intended are better IMO

MicroLED is the eventual destination, is it can do the intended HDR grade brightness and lack of burn-in of MINI LED, while also doing per pixel dimming. But that will be very expensive for a long time, so these 2024+ MINI LEDs are the next best option for the true HDR experience w/o downconversion for the many films whose HDR grades are >1000nits peak.

This is going to be subjective but having been an LED user with a tv capable of high nits, who always watches content in a pitch black room, I have many experiences with those light canon discs where the movie brought my eyes to tears from the excess brightness. I can recall many instances where this happened but one easy one was with Baby Driver. There was a transition between a dark garage into a sunlight outdoors and it only took seconds and despite having to wince to even manage to view the film I just ended up with an immediate out pour of tears pouring down my face from the harsh brightness.

So there is definitely such a thing as too many nits, and if the content becomes painful to watch, you know there's a problem.

Earlier HDR compatible OLED's were too dark, despite the perfect blacks, the lack of punchy highlights prevented them from being able to produce optimal HDR, and again this is subjective as many feel the blacks still provide a more realistic and more immersive experience, but I think many high nit seekers would agree. However with modern OLED's capable of getting close to or above 900 nits, that's very near the golden target of 1000 for highlights, and I think that's just about the sweet spot of what is tolerable for viewers in a pitch black room in my humble opinion.

I used to be pretty negative on OLED. All the downsides just didn't make sense. However the last few years the strides that the technology has made have really turned me around into a believer. Now a days I believe there's really no better all round viewing experience for films in a pitch dark room at the consumer level (with one caveat, this is assuming one is not among those with ultra high sensitivity to the instantaneous response times, fortunately no one in my home is, and this appears to be pretty rare).

[Geoff D]

Yeah. If you can reproduce up to 1000 nits in 1:1 fashion (which is fully 75% of the PQ HDR signal) then that'll take care of the vast majority of HDR content today. As long as the TV can effectively tone map the rest, either via its own processing or third party dynamic metadata systems, then you're good. Leave the Light Cannonry™️ to the nits nuts, and I say that as an owner of a TV that kicks out ~1800 nits peak.

[Bunty2]

Originally Posted by Ruined

Next year mini led will pull far ahead of OLED

2024 85"+ flagships from Samsung, TCL, Hisense will be 5000 nits + 5000 zones, some models already have been announced. First HDR TVs to basically not need to use tone mapping anymore. OLED will still have per pixel dimming advantage, but at 1/5th of the brightness that advantage is kind of moot.

Mini LED will never pull ahead unless they are suddenly available widespread at Wal-Mart because they will be selling them at under $1000. I don't see that happening.

[Telemachus]

5000 nits would blind me, this reminds me of the old school CPU speed debates, which no one does anymore after multicore. My LG only does 800 something nits, and if I watch an extremely bright HDR disc I still have to adjust my seating because it's too bright (I'm in a blacked out movie room). I also watch a lot of SDR stuff calibrated to about 120ish nits, gaming is maybe 150nits unles I'm in HDR, I don't see how things can get better than I have it now. I never owned a plasma and enjoyed my films all the same, I think waiting for new tech is always chasing a carrot, and most people don't even need it to have a satisfying experience.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by Telemachus

5000 nits would blind me, this reminds me of the old school CPU speed debates, which no one does anymore after multicore. My LG only does 800 something nits, and if I watch an extremely bright HDR disc I still have to adjust my seating because it's too bright (I'm in a blacked out movie room). I also watch a lot of SDR stuff calibrated to about 120ish nits, gaming is maybe 150nits unles I'm in HDR, I don't see how things can get better than I have it now. I never owned a plasma and enjoyed my films all the same, I think waiting for new tech is always chasing a carrot, and most people don't even need it to have a satisfying experience.

It's not about frying your eye sockets with a 5000nit full screen white. It's the ability to see the HDR grade as intended, and also getting rid of weird HDR downconversion/tonemapping artifacts, such as:
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...1#post21563081

when you got something with nearly 3700nit highlights as in the above poster's case and have to smash it down to 1000nits, its not going to look that great in most cases, and could end up looking blown out as this user experienced.

These new 5000nit TVs won't have to do this anymore, so in addition to getting punchier highlights of highlights, you lose the tonemapping artifacts. For some movies, the jump from 1000nit-tonemapped HDR to the full brightness grade may be as large as the jump from SDR to HDR in scenes that go into the >1000 nit range. It's a very real difference, and once people see it in action it will be tough to go back to the pre-2024 sets that weren't capable of full HDR; to draw an analogy to the times of HD, today's TVs are like "720p", while these 5000nits TVs will be "1080p/FullHD" in the HDR world.

Hey 5000nit TV manufs, there is your marketing slogan, "FullHDR" - you're welcome!

[Telemachus]

Full Eye Death

[chip75]

I'd wait for the reviews of the 5,000 nits models, Hisense and TCL need more than screen brightness to knock our socks off.

To be honest I'd be more interested in modular screens where we can have a 2.40:1 ratio.

[grodd]

Originally Posted by Ruined

It's not about frying your eye sockets with a 5000nit full screen white. It's the ability to see the HDR grade as intended, and also getting rid of weird HDR downconversion/tonemapping artifacts, such as:
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...1#post21563081

when you got something with nearly 3700nit highlights as in the above poster's case and have to smash it down to 1000nits, its not going to look that great in most cases, and could end up looking blown out as this user experienced.

These new 5000nit TVs won't have to do this anymore, so in addition to getting punchier highlights of highlights, you lose the tonemapping artifacts. For some movies, the jump from 1000nit-tonemapped HDR to the full brightness grade may be as large as the jump from SDR to HDR in scenes that go into the >1000 nit range. It's a very real difference, and once people see it in action it will be tough to go back to the pre-2024 sets that weren't capable of full HDR; to draw an analogy to the times of HD, today's TVs are like "720p", while these 5000nits TVs will be "1080p/FullHD" in the HDR world.

Hey 5000nit TV manufs, there is your marketing slogan, "FullHDR" - you're welcome!

Current OLED's peak at around 1300-1500nits. Even though LED's have about double the NITS (2000+), in the last few years they still lose in every category at the shootout including peak brightness and tone mapping/4000+ tone mapping.

"Full" nits is no guarantee they can come out of black and properly tone map as we've seen with sub 1000 nit content on various current TV's. Not to mention you are talking about a subset within a subset of 1000+ mastered scenes.

Even "IF" and thats a big IF they can properly tone map, it is only one of many things that make a great picture. LED's are still far behind in motion, color accuracy, upscaling, picture detail, black level, grayscale uniformity, streaming low bit rate media, off-angle viewing etc etc.

I'll be happy to check one out and see, but I wouldn't get my expectations very high.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by chip75

I'd wait for the reviews of the 5,000 nits models, Hisense and TCL need more than screen brightness to knock our socks off.

Samsung most likely will have one too under QN100D banner, and possibly Sony as well though they tend release a little later than the rest of the pack

To be honest I'd be more interested in modular screens where we can have a 2.40:1 ratio.

Actually possible with MicroLED, but big bucks

[Telemachus]

OLED does what LEDon't

[teddyballgame]

Originally Posted by NeilZ

This is going to be subjective but having been an LED user with a tv capable of high nits, who always watches content in a pitch black room, I have many experiences with those light canon discs where the movie brought my eyes to tears from the excess brightness. I can recall many instances where this happened but one easy one was with Baby Driver. There was a transition between a dark garage into a sunlight outdoors and it only took seconds and despite having to wince to even manage to view the film I just ended up with an immediate out pour of tears pouring down my face from the harsh brightness.

I also watch in a pitch black room (with oled) but I've heard plenty of enthusiasts and calibrators say that a bias light (like this one) simulating d65 can help make those harsh APL transitions less stressful on the eyes. Might be worth considering if you're sensitive. But then again maybe going from LED to OLED has cleared that up for you alltogether

[teddyballgame]

Originally Posted by Telemachus

Full Eye Death

[thebarnman]

Waiting for Vincent to review the new Magnetar UHD Blu-ray player and compare it to the Panasonic 820.

Build quality is one thing but I'm really wondering about the differences between the two when it comes to video reproduction.

So far I've read the Magnetar might be a tiny bit better, but that was from simple YouTube reviews...nothing really thorough though. I can't really put too much weight into that though till Vincent does his review I hope sooner rather than later!

[GlacierTuba]

Has anyone else here got a hardware modded 820? If so, how in the name of God do you get external subtitles to work via the custom firmware?