Panasonic UB820/UB9000 4K UHD Blu-ray player

[thirdkind]

Originally Posted by panasonicst60

Ok got the disc in. I compared both DV and hdr10 at 10000 nits. With lg's dynamic tone mapping on there are some clipping but definitely not extreme like on the Sony. DV looks awesome. I don't know how to post pics up on here to show, as I have never done that on this forum. Maybe I'll try to figure it out in a bit

Edit: links below.
1st hdr10
2nd DV





https://photos.app.goo.gl/xAtV5jYUcrHhTfs27
https://photos.app.goo.gl/J4FpB4gmVnst2vCn8

Thanks for confirming. What I see on screen isn't all that different from what you've shared with the Optimizer off (my camera blew out the highlights just a bit), though the LG is definitely better. Looks like Sony's mistake is not letting users disable or adjust their tone mapping.

The UB9000's settings can be adjusted to recover some of that detail, but who knows what other negative effects those settings cause?

Originally Posted by panasonicst60

This Spears and Munsil is a monster at evaluating. I will be putting the hdr optimizer and the LG's dynamic tone mapping to the test. Looks like I was totally wrong saying the lg dynamic tone mapping was garbage. Looks like it's doing a hella of job at tone mapping these 10000 nits test videos. Boy was I wrong. My apologies. On to more testing.

Quick test of the hdr optimizer shows it changes the color tone of colors too much. For example the color of the horse without it on looks more natural and extremely similar to the DV......

I know the consensus seems to be that DV is broken and HDR10 with the Optimizer is the best approach, but I have no complaints with DV, even if the highlights are slightly clipped. The Optimizer has its own shortcomings (like banding); you can't change the fact that it's a static optimization based on an algorithm, which is just a best guess, while DV represents (mostly) what the content author intended on a scene-by-scene basis.

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by panasonicst60

We should as some are mastered at 10000. Also for a bit of future proofing. You should at least care about 4000 as a lot of uhds are mastered at.

Werd. I'm good with the 4,000, but I don't care about future proofing since I upgrade every 3-4 years

[nachoju95]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Turn 24p ON and make sure that the 4K60 settings are set to 4:4:4 and not 4:2:0.

Geoff D you saved me!!! Thank you!!! In the end, the problem was that I had the 24p OFF.

I tried "The Dark Knight" in 4: 4: 4 and now it looks great !! Thank you very much to all who answered me!

[panasonicst60]

Originally Posted by thirdkind

Thanks for confirming. What I see on screen isn't all that different from what you've shared with the Optimizer off (my camera blew out the highlights just a bit), though the LG is definitely better. Looks like Sony's mistake is not letting users disable or adjust their tone mapping.

The UB9000's settings can be adjusted to recover some of that detail, but who knows what other negative effects those settings cause?

I know the consensus seems to be that DV is broken and HDR10 with the Optimizer is the best approach, but I have no complaints with DV, even if the highlights are slightly clipped. The Optimizer has its own shortcomings (like banding); you can't change the fact that it's a static optimization based on an algorithm, which is just a best guess, while DV represents (mostly) what the content author intended on a scene-by-scene basis.

To be honest the LG looks slightly better than in the picture. The best setting on the LG for hdr10 is to have the ub820 to oled with optimizer on and LG tone mapping turn on as well. Looks really good to me for tone mapping 10000 and 4000. At 1000 nits the image looks great as hardly any tone mapping is done. Very pure image. I love this S&M disc a lot. It has opened up my eyes. Thanks to you!

Yes, people saying DV clips highlights, were blown out of proportion imo. DV looks excellent and better than the ub820 optimizer and LG s dynamic tone mapping by far.

Edit: further testing shows LG's dynamic tone mapping kills the eotf so it maybe a no go.

[dawizeguy]

Sorry if this has been asked before:

Is there any way to assess streaming info (resolution, bitrate etc.) in the built-in Netflix app? Pressing the "info" button does nothing.

[thirdkind]

Originally Posted by panasonicst60

To be honest the LG looks slightly better than in the picture. The best setting on the LG for hdr10 is to have the ub820 to oled with optimizer on and LG tone mapping turn on as well. Looks really good to me for tone mapping 10000 and 4000. At 1000 nits the image looks great as hardly any tone mapping is done. Very pure image. I love this S&M disc a lot. It has opened up my eyes. Thanks to you!

Glad you're enjoying it Even after a professional calibration, the patterns are still useful for deciding whether your player or display is best suited for certain processing tasks.

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by dawizeguy

Sorry if this has been asked before:

Is there any way to assess streaming info (resolution, bitrate etc.) in the built-in Netflix app? Pressing the "info" button does nothing.

what brand tv? I can see that info on my Samsung TV pressing the info button on my older style remote.

[dawizeguy]

Originally Posted by ray0414

what brand tv? I can see that info on my Samsung TV pressing the info button on my older style remote.

I can see that my question wasn't clear. I was asking about the built in Netflix app in the Panasonic UB820 player.

P.S. It's not possible to assess the streaming info in Netflix on my LG B7 OLED with the stock remote. One has to buy a new remote or use an app.

[panasonicst60]

The following is the best settings on my(and I'm sure most) LG C8 and UB820 for tone mapping. It is great for 1000 & 4000 nits mastered content. As with 1000 nit mastered content it clips right after 1000 nits which is perfect tone mapping for my c8. As for 4000 nit mastered content I have decided to compromise some clipping in order to maintain an overall brighter image. Some side effects of adjusting tone curve to heavy handed can cause the overall picture to be too dim when watching movies. As a result it can be preferred to clip some highlights instead. Finding the right balance is crucial for movie viewing. I have verified each with Calman, Spears and Munsil, and movie content.

1000 nits content +1 on tone curve white
4000 nits content +3 on tone curve white

I have verified that the LG C8 dynamic tone mapping is garbage when it comes to eotf tracking, therefore I would not recommend using it.

To be honest my oled has never looked this good!!

[rickardl]

Originally Posted by panasonicst60

The following is the best settings on my(and I'm sure most) LG C8 and UB820 for tone mapping. It is absolutely perfect tone mapping setting for 1000-8500 nits content. As with these settings it actually starts to clip right at the mastered nits, as a result, perfect tone mapping. I have verified each with calman and Spears and Munsil.

1000 nits content +2 on tone curve white
2000 nits content +5 on tone curve white
4000 nits content +9 on tone curve white
10000 nits content you need to switch to LCD standard luminance and +12 on tone curve white ( still not perfect as it still clips at roughly 8500ish nits.

I have verified that the LG C8 dynamic tone mapping is garbage when it comes to eotf tracking, therefore I would not recommend using it.

One thing I have yet to have time to fully verify is if raising the tone curve white causes any negative effects. Please chime in if you have found any.

To be honest my oled has never looked this good!!

and yóur verdict on the 820's Optimizer is...?

[panasonicst60]

Originally Posted by rickardl

and yóur verdict on the 820's Optimizer is...?

As long as you have test patterns to verify the clipping on your display with the use of tone curve white it performs excellent. This is not a set and forget feature. It must be adjusted to every movie mastered nits. Tone mapping can be such a b***h.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by dawizeguy

Sorry if this has been asked before:

Is there any way to assess streaming info (resolution, bitrate etc.) in the built-in Netflix app? Pressing the "info" button does nothing.

Originally Posted by dawizeguy

I can see that my question wasn't clear. I was asking about the built in Netflix app in the Panasonic UB820 player.

P.S. It's not possible to assess the streaming info in Netflix on my LG B7 OLED with the stock remote. One has to buy a new remote or use an app.

That feature isn't supported with the Panasonic, I've mentioned it to both Netflix and Panasonic, but I don't think they understood the issue.

Like you said with the LG you need to use the App.

[Mobe1969]

Originally Posted by pbz06

Werd. I'm good with the 4,000, but I don't care about future proofing since I upgrade every 3-4 years

Mad Max is 4000, but there are a lot of images init where the max is well over 9k. I guess 4k average?

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by panasonicst60

As long as you have test patterns to verify the clipping on your display with the use of tone curve white it performs excellent. This is not a set and forget feature. It must be adjusted to every movie mastered nits. Tone mapping can be such a b***h.

I'm not familiar with LG's implementation of tone mapping (or dynamic tone mapping), but on the Sony it's a set it and forget it. The HDR Optimizer maintains a consistent tone map and linear EOTF, and doesn't appear to change average brightness etc.

[panasonicst60]

Originally Posted by pbz06

I'm not familiar with LG's implementation of tone mapping (or dynamic tone mapping), but on the Sony it's a set it and forget it. The HDR Optimizer maintains a consistent tone map and linear EOTF, and doesn't appear to change average brightness etc.

Do you have test patterns to check for when it clips? If not you need to. Thing is when you have it set to oled, mid luminance lcd, etc the player makes a ballpark guess to how it tone maps. The player does not know what tv model you exactly have. Without adjusting the tone curve white and test patterns you will not be maximizing the full potential of your panel I guarantee it.

To be honest, I have been quite busy since I got my ub820 and never really put it through intense testing till now. I have learned quite a bit about the hdr optimizer in the last 24 hours.

If you don't care about perfection, then it's a set and forget I certainly do!

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by panasonicst60

Do you have test patterns to check for when it clips? If not you need to. Thing is when you have it set to oled, mid luminance lcd, etc the player makes a ballpark guess to how it tone maps. The player does not know what tv model you exactly have. Without adjusting the tone curve white and test patterns you will not be maximizing the full potential of your panel I guarantee it.

If you don't care about perfection, then it's a set and forget I certainly do!

I have the S&M in my cart, but haven't ordered yet. That's not how it works though from what I understand. There's no guessing or ballpark. It reads the data and tone maps 1,000-4,000 nit content while preserving the brightness. It sends it as a 1,000 nit package from there, to the TV, and the TV does the rest.

I've tested extensively in real content though and did many scene comparisons, and it's been perfect. Flicking On vs Off keeps the same brightness for me, and only affects the detail that it shows instead of clipped from the TV.

[panasonicst60]

Originally Posted by pbz06

I have the S&M in my cart, but haven't ordered yet. That's not how it works though from what I understand. There's no guessing or ballpark. It reads the data and tone maps 1,000-4,000 nit content while preserving the brightness. It sends it as a 1,000 nit package from there, to the TV, and the TV does the rest.

I've tested extensively in real content though and did many scene comparisons, and it's been perfect. Flicking On vs Off keeps the same brightness for me, and only affects the detail that it shows instead of clipped from the TV.

That is how it works. It's not dynamic.

It is guessing what your peak brightness of your panel. It does not know.

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by panasonicst60

That is how it works. It's not dynamic.

It is guessing what your peak brightness of your panel. It does not know.

But it's not guessing, since it doesn't need to know (OLED = less than 1,000). It's a handoff. The TV reads it as 1000 nit content and tone maps that and handles it easier with no clipping.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...NRWHdfdcTZYq-t

[panasonicst60]

Originally Posted by pbz06

But it's not guessing, since it doesn't need to know (OLED = less than 1,000). It's a handoff. The TV reads it as 1000 nit content and tone maps that and handles it easier with no clipping.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...NRWHdfdcTZYq-t

When you select oled it makes the assumption that your oled can peak at 1000 nits. Well no oled (consumer level) can do 1000 nits. My c8 can do 750 nits, therefore anything over 750 is clipped. One example from my test things mastered at 2000 nits, on stock settings my c8 clips at 1500 nits or so. With adjustments it can tone map correctly. Another example, if you have a panel that can do 1700 peak brightness none of the presets matches that. You need to adjust the tone cruve white to perfectly match your display. You can convince yourself if you would like. But I'm just staying exactly what I see. End of story. Good luck

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by panasonicst60

When you select oled it makes the assumption that your oled can peak at 1000 nits. Well no oled (consumer level) can do 1000 nits. My c8 can do 750 nits, therefore anything over 750 is clipped. From my test things mastered at 2000 nits, on stock settings my c8 clips at 1500 nits or so. With adjustments it can tone map correctly. You can convince yourself if you would like. But I'm just staying exactly what I see. End of story. Good luck

Yes, I know that OLED's can't do 1,000 nits (let alone 4,000)...that's the whole point of the HDR Optimizer. It does the heavy lifting and maintains proper balance. The OLED can handle 1,000 nits and and not clip and there's no distortion/banding or overlapping or double tone map, whatever you call it. The TV receives it as 1,000 nit content with no idea that it was tone mapped previously. It's still linear.

Suggest you watch the youtube video link, and read up on it. It's pretty good info.

Playing 4,000 nit content blows out highlights on most TV's even after tone mapping. Flipping on the HDR Optimizer, restores all detail highlights only in those clipped areas while the brightness of the picture stays the same.