Panasonic UB820/UB9000 4K UHD Blu-ray player

[mar3o]

Just watched an episode on disc 1 of the Westworld series 1 on UHD and there was a very quick flash to black, or some kind of glitch, quick enough that it didn't trigger the TV but enough that I spotted it. I played the scene back a couple times after the episode was over and it didn't happen again. Now I'm wondering if I should keep this player. I was really happy with the player last weekend as it performed flawlessly through the first 7 discs I've played. Today it has not been kind to me.

Is the 420 known for these flashes to black or dropped signals?

Same cables as hooked up to my x700 (cables for both player>receiver and receiver>TV are 18Gbps.), and that player never had any black screens during playback.

Could it be a setting in the player? Everything is mostly set to AUTO.

Resolution - Auto
4k60p Output - 4k/60p(4:4:4)
24p Output - Auto
HDMI (VIDEO) Output Mode - Auto
HDMI (AUDIO) Output Mode - Auto
DRR10+ Setting - On

Color Mode - YcbCr (Auto)
Deep Color Output -Auto (10bit Priority)
HDR/Color Gamut Output - HDR/BT.2020 (Auto)
SDR/HDR Conv (Network Service) - Off (What is this?)
HLG/PQ Conversion - OFF (What is this?)
HDR TV Type - Middle or High Luminance
25p/50p Output - Auto
HDCP Output Setting - Auto
Contents Type Flag - Auto
Audio Output - On
7.1ch Audio Reformatting - Off

Still Mode (paused video) - Auto
Seamless Play - On

Somebody on another forum had this issue with their UB900 and said it was a color mode issue:

"I have found a workaround to the problem and that is to set ycbcr to 4:2:2 output instead of ycbcr 4:4:4."

But my player is set to Auto. Not sure if I should change it or how that would affect the image if I did.

Could my Deep Color setting have something to do with this (10bit Priority) I set it to 10bit because my LG TV is technically 8bit with dithering to give 10bit color, according to posters on AVS. So I figured 12bit would be unnecessary and just add more data packed into the HDMI stream for no benefit. I tried to look up charts for various deep color settings/color modes at various resolutions/framerates, but I found conflicting information in some charts. What is the ideal combo of Deep Color and Color Mode for me to use for my TV? Can/should I try 4:2:2 10bit Priority? What should I set "4k60p Output" to if using 4:2:2 10bit Priority? What Color Mode is it using right now when set to Auto?

According to https://www.acousticfrontiers.com/uhd-101-v2/

"There is no color information beyond 4:2:0 on Blu-Ray or UHD Blu-Ray so it’s “made up” by the display upon conversion to RGB. I’m unsure if there is any difference in quality where the “chroma-upsampling” (as it is called) occurs – whether in display or source."

[Geoff D]

This doesn't answer your question but there is definitely a difference in quality in chroma upconversion between displays and players, and even between players themselves. These differences are very slight of coursh and aren't much more than fodder for nerds (ahem) comparing test patterns.

Lots and lots of lots question from a panicky mar3o, take a deep breath. Sometimes HDMI glitches happen. You can physically see what bit depth and chroma upsampling the player is using during playback by going into the playback information screen, press Options on the remote during playback and it'll be in the list of things that appear. This will show you what the content is (top line) and what the player is outputting (third line). If it's outputting 10-bit 4:4:4 then that's a lot of data being shifted, it might be worth manually setting it to 4:2:2

[sapiendut]

The problem may simply lies with HDMI cable.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

The problem may simply lies with HDMI cable.

But as I said, both cables involved are 18Gbps cables, and I bought them new just over a year ago when I first got my x700. And I never got a single black black screen with my x700, so I doubt my cables are bad.

I don't think I'm being panicky. But when I have 2 shows in a row glitch out on a new player, it's enough to get me worrying like anybody would. Especially after getting stuck with that miserable x700 that was a total waste of money. So I don't want to get stuck with a second bad player. So I asked a bunch of questions because these are the things I"m looking at to possibly solve my problem. Isn't that what anybody would do?

I was wondering if there was a way to see what the payer is outputting, so thanks for that info. I'll check, and if it's 4:4:4, I'll try switching to 4:2:2 10bit and see what happens. Perhaps my 8bit LG panel can't handle what the Sony is sending out in auto mode (4:4:4 maybe).

I've watched countless movies and shows on blu-ray with my blu-ray player over the years and everything has been solid without so much as a glitch other than the sync issues some discs tend to have. So it's frustrating when a year into the new format for me I still can't get through a handful of movies in a row without having issues. With the x700 it was practically every movie locking up or falling out of sync. This player so far was great up until my black screens yesterday.

[sapiendut]

Doesn’t work that way. Not all cables are created equal. I have tested tonloads of cables that claim to be 18 gbps using Murideo Fresco-Six and they don’t pass 18 Gbps.

[Cortiz]

Might be worth trying new cables just to rule that out.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

Doesn’t work that way. Not all cables are created equal. I have tested tonloads of cables that claim to be 18 gbps using Murideo Fresco-Six and they don’t pass 18 Gbps.

Sure, I believe that. These are Amazon basics I think if I remember. But after a year of use and not a single black screen, I would say the cables seem to have passed the test.

[mar3o]

I tested the output the player is putting out, and it was 10bit 4:4:4 (the source was 4:2:0 which I think it would say for all UHD and blu-ray discs. So I changed it to 10bit 4:2:2. Does this combo result in any additional banding?

But what should I set "4k60p Output" to? I have a choice of 4k/60p (4:4:4), 4k/60p (4:2:0), and off.

Can anybody tell me what SDR/HDR Conv (Network Service) and HLG/PQ Conversion is? I think the SDR/HDR Conv is supposed to make sure all data sent out is HDR so there are no handshake issues when switching content back and forth? Is that recommend to be on or off, and why is it a network service?

Edit: Okay, now I've selected 10bit priority 4:2:2, but the info screen says it's outputting 4:2:2 12bit (line 3). Why is that? Why isn't it outputting 10bit? I checked and deep color output is set to 10bit priority. If I select auto, it send out 4:4:4 10bit, or if I select 4:2:2 it sends out 4:2:2 12bit. I can't seem to get it to send out 4:2:2 10bit. I'm assuming Deep Color output should be set to 10bit and not off, correct?

[Streamingsux]

I have this model. Very satisfied with it and have had zero issues.

I have mine set to SDR because I'm still using a 1080p TV and not a true 4K tv..

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by mar3o

Sure, I believe that. These are Amazon basics I think if I remember. But after a year of use and not a single black screen, I would say the cables seem to have passed the test.

It’s not merely a couple dozen times that clients experienced what seems to be OK yesterday and failed today. You also didn’t use the cable with the Panasonic player that actually require all 17.8 gbps for the 4:4:4 to pass through. But it seems like you want to argue rather than just test the cable as also recommended by other members here, so you do you.

[mar3o]

Nope, I just can't get the player to output 4:2:2 10bit.

It sends out 4:4:4 10bit if set to Auto, or 4:2:2 12bit if I select 4:2:2.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

It’s not merely a couple dozen times that clients experienced what seems to be OK yesterday and failed today. You also didn’t use the cable with the Panasonic player that actually require all 17.8 gbps for the 4:4:4 to pass through. But it seems like you want to argue rather than just test the cable as also recommended by other members here, so you do you.

I'm not arguing. I'm trying to figure out what the issue is with what I have available today. I can't get another set of cables in my hand today. But I can switch modes today. So that's what I'm trying to do today and see if that helps. And I don't really want to buy more cables when I don't need to. That's just another expense if it's unnecessary. And I hear people telling me to buy another cable and that some aren't what they say they are, but no actual suggestions on a cable I can actually trust from Amazon. So why buy another cable if I don't know what cables are actually what they claim? These are the cables I'm using:

Amazon Basics Flexible and Durable Premium HDMI Cable - Supports Ethernet, 3D, 4K HDR and ARC (4K@60Hz, 18Gbps) - 10 Foot, Black

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KSD9DZ9/


Right now I'm trying to figure out why the player won't send 4:4:2 10bit. Because sending out 12bit doesn't seem like that's going to solve the issue - if anything that's even more data being sent out.

[mar3o]

According to this chart I can't do 4:2:2 10bit. But he says it's based on older data but it was official at the time so that's what he posted.



This chart says I can do 4:2:2 10bit.



For some reason, even if I select deep color to 10bit priority, it sends out 12bit if I select 4:2:2. I also tried setting deep color to off and it still sends out 4:2:2 12bit. I would think leaving it on auto would be the thing to do, but the only other option I seem to have besides letting auto send out 4:4:4 10bit is setting it to 4:2:2 and have it send 4:2:2 12bit. I'm not an expert and I don't claim to be so I don't know what the benefit is between these two. Both seem to be sending out additional unneeded data. The question is am I being prevented from sending out 4:2:2 10 bit by the player, or is my TV telling the player it doesn't support that mode? Remember it's only an 8bit panel with dithering to deliver HDR color gamut.

[pbz06]

The spec doesn't allow for 4:2:2 10-bit.

However, I think when you manually set to 4:2:2, and deep color "off", it's an untouched "10-bit" signal within a 12-bit container. I have no way of testing this nor any actual proof. Just speculation.

You can either choose auto/4:4:4 and 10-bit priority, but if you do 4:2:2, it has to be a 12-bit container. Where off stll sends 8-bit for SDR, and 10-bit for HDR.

Ideally I think my TV is better suited for 4:2:2 and I wish I can confirm I'm sending 8bit for SDR and 10bit for HDR.

[mar3o]

Okay, thanks, that's what I wanted to know - so the player won't send out 4:2:2 10bit because that's out of spec. Like I said, that 2nd chart shows it in spec, and the first chart came from an article that said supposedly 10bit 4:2:2 was added later, but that's why I said there's a lot of conflicting info out there.

Is there any benefit to setting deep color 10/12 bit as opposed to off? I know on standard blu-ray players it was advisable to set deep color to off. But I thought for HDR, UHD players needed deep color enabled. Is this incorrect?

[mar3o]

With the following settings:

Color Mode - YCbCr (4:2:2)
Deep Color Output - Off

or

Color Mode - YCbCr (4:2:2)
Deep Color Output - Auto (10bit priority)

the player outputs YCbCr 4:2:2/12bit

Same either way. Changing deep color from 10bit priority to off still outputs 12bit. But you said it may be just sending out a 10bit signal in a 12bit container if deep color is set to off. It just needs to send out a 12bit signal.

Is deep color necessary? I have my TV set to deep color in the settings for this input. If I set deep color to off, and your theory is correct that it's sending HDR as 10bit in a 12bit container, then do I still need deep color enabled for that input on my TV? I'm guessing I do.

[PUsokrJosh305]

I've always gone with Monoprice's Cables. They have some certified cables that will guarantee you to have 18 Gbps and fully approve by the HDMI Forum. They also have an 8K/4K 48 Gbps Certified cable that will be coming out here in a few weeks. Plus, their cables have a lifetime warranty so if they don't work, they will replace them for free! I don't really trust Amazon.

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by mar3o

With the following settings:

Color Mode - YCbCr (4:2:2)
Deep Color Output - Off

or

Color Mode - YCbCr (4:2:2)
Deep Color Output - Auto (10bit priority)

the player outputs YCbCr 4:2:2/12bit

Same either way. Changing deep color from 10bit priority to off still outputs 12bit. But you said it may be just sending out a 10bit signal in a 12bit container if deep color is set to off. It just needs to send out a 12bit signal.

Is deep color necessary? I have my TV set to deep color in the settings for this input.

4K60p Output is set to 4k/60p (4:4:4). Not sure if that would affect anything though.

The interesting thing is, if you disable the 4K/60 setting, and you manually change the other setting to 4:2:2, it will convert to SDR. So you need to keep the 4K/60 on 4:4:4...I don't know why it's set up like that.

I'm currently in the process testing to see if I get better results with 4:4:4 10-bit or 4:2:2 12-bit (but deep color off).

[mar3o]

Well I'll try 2 different settings then and see how it plays out I guess. I'll try it at 4:2:2 12bit first and see how that goes, and if I still get black screen blanking, I'll try turning deep color off and see how that goes. I've just always though deep color needs to be enabled for HDR but I guess that's not correct.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by pbz06

The interesting thing is, if you disable the 4K/60 setting, and you manually change the other setting to 4:2:2, it will convert to SDR. So you need to keep the 4K/60 on 4:4:4...I don't know why it's set up like that.

I'm currently in the process testing to see if I get better results with 4:4:4 10-bit or 4:2:2 12-bit (but deep color off).

Now this is definitely important to know. Thanks. I'll leave 4k/60 on 4:4:4.