Panasonic UB820/UB9000 4K UHD Blu-ray player

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Oscarilbo

This whole HDR thing has been a mess... I mean, when done right it looks wonderful, and maybe many times it can be even without the correct metadata reading, but even then you don't have the image intended by the filmmakers, so... damn. I see more and more TVs are starting to come with more complex "dynamic metadata" functions for HDR10 handling, I guess given the headaches it has meant.

It's a complete mess. But "dynamic metadata" is not what these devices are doing for HDR10 handling, I know you're just mentioning that term in a general sense but what modern 'dynamic' processing is doing is assessing the incoming signal in real time and adjusting the output as best it can, i.e. it's looking at the content *itself* and not just the metadata. The Optimiser does the opposite, it's not got the power to adjust itself scene by scene so it applies a fixed tone map according to what you've set the player to and what the metadata of the content is showing as.

In an ideal world the best solution would be to have a video processor that could analyse the content beforehand and build up a tone mapping 'route map' for it, so that it knew exactly what to adjust and when. So when you play back x movie you can call up the bespoke tone map for it.

[Oscarilbo]

Originally Posted by pbz06

Yup, so much for "standards". Between the various dolby vision profiles, TV led vs player led, static tonemapping vs dynamic tonemapping, and the numerous tiers of TV models and their capabilities, strengths and weaknesses, LED or OLED etc...I'm convinced none of us are watching the same thing nor as the creator intended

Definitely, I think that too.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It's a complete mess. But "dynamic metadata" is not what these devices are doing for HDR10 handling, I know you're just mentioning that term in a general sense but what modern 'dynamic' processing is doing is assessing the incoming signal in real time and adjusting the output as best it can, i.e. it's looking at the content *itself* and not just the metadata. The Optimiser does the opposite, it's not got the power to adjust itself scene by scene so it applies a fixed tone map according to what you've set the player to and what the metadata of the content is showing as.

In an ideal world the best solution would be to have a video processor that could analyse the content beforehand and build up a tone mapping 'route map' for it, so that it knew exactly what to adjust and when. So when you play back x movie you can call up the bespoke tone map for it.

Yeah, totally... and yes, not talking about real "dynamic tone mapping" per se here, but more of a refined extra processing... like more and more projectors, for example, are coming with these processing steps that supposedly analyze frame by frame and try to adjust brightness and range for HDR10 content, like the top JVC projectors and even the new LG HU810P which I hope I can get my hands on sometime soon.

[Geoff D]

Understood. Projektors have led the way for this kind of dynamic handling because they just weren't designed for HDR, not the tech itself but the processing which has had the daunting task of boiling down what could be many thousands of nits into 50 or 100 or whatever. And without dynamic metadata at all (no Dobly on consumer projektors without spoofing a player into outputting the player-led mode) then they've had a harder time than most to try and get anything like an image that was intended. People were/are using custom tone curves, outboard processors costing thousands of dollars, the SDR conversions on various players, plus the spoofed Dolby Vision as mentioned, but as the processing inside the PJs gets betterer and betterer - and will hopefully trickle down so that it's not just kit that costs five figures that does it - then things will keep improving.

[Nocheduro]

Reading the last several posts here, if doing an HDR to SDR conversion to play on a non HDR panel, the optimizer should still be turned on?

[Oscarilbo]

Originally Posted by Nocheduro

Reading the last several posts here, if doing an HDR to SDR conversion to play on a non HDR panel, the optimizer should still be turned on?

Yes it should as will give you the best representation of the intended look. Although there are some weird exceptions of movies that look better with the optimizer OFF, which is what we are talking about, like Pacific Rim, Aquaman, The Meg and I believe Sicario. But on +95% of the movies, it's better to have it ON.

[Nocheduro]

Originally Posted by Oscarilbo

Yes it should as will give you the best representation of the intended look. Although there are some weird exceptions of movies that look better with the optimizer OFF, which is what we are talking about, like Pacific Rim, Aquaman, The Meg and I believe Sicario. But on +95% of the movies, it's better to have it ON.

This is good to know. I have a UB9000 on the way, I had been thinking that I wouldn’t need to use the optimizer at all since I don’t have an HDR panel.

[Oscarilbo]

Originally Posted by Nocheduro

This is good to know. I have a UB9000 on the way, I had been thinking that I wouldn’t need to use the optimizer at all since I don’t have an HDR panel.

What the player does in the HDR to SDR is tone mapping the signal for your display instead of letting the display to do it. You are practically watching an HDR image but lets say "adapted" to something your display can handle, so with turning ON the HDR optimizer you still get the benefits.

[Tok]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The Meg and Specific Rim are two other examples of this kind of HDR. Rim isn't as extreme in the brightness but it still has a MaxCLL of ~2400 nits without so much as a shred of extra highlight information vs the SDR version. Not that this can't still be pleasurable - Rim is renowned as a UHD 'demo disc' for a reason - but if your tone mapping isn't on point then it could look more blown out than the SDR. Eh, that's HDR in a nutshell I 'spose: good tone mapping is as vital a part of a display's armoury as having thousands of nits, infinite contrast and all that other good stuff.

I missed that specific film.

[Nocheduro]

UB9000 arrived yesterday, didn’t have time for any extensive watching, but I did do some quick tests with the first Mission Impossible UHD and the old MPEG-2 blu. UHD definitely has way more detail and shows colors that are nonexistent on the blu, even downconverted to 1080P and SDR. The one problem is the image is too dark. I had the TV type set to OLED, maybe basic luminance would help?

[morris_schaffer]

When playing discs on my UB820, I notice the lip sync is off by just a little. I'm curious to know more about this phenomenon. What causes it? Is it caused by the player or the disc? And naturally, how can I remedy it? And if I do, will that generally solve it for all discs?

Thanks.

[Member-425016]

Originally Posted by morris_schaffer

When playing discs on my UB820, I notice the lip sync is off by just a little. I'm curious to know more about this phenomenon. What causes it? Is it caused by the player or the disc? And naturally, how can I remedy it? And if I do, will that generally solve it for all discs?

Thanks.

Direct audio to TV or through a receiver?

[morris_schaffer]

Originally Posted by Filmfan73

Direct audio to TV or through a receiver?

Receiver. Sony STR-DN1080. one HDMI out going to LG OLED E series. 4 appliances go to the receiver via HDMI. PS4, Xbox 1x, switch and UB820.

HDMI cable is a 4K certified one.

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by morris_schaffer

When playing discs on my UB820, I notice the lip sync is off by just a little. I'm curious to know more about this phenomenon. What causes it? Is it caused by the player or the disc? And naturally, how can I remedy it? And if I do, will that generally solve it for all discs?

Thanks.

If you have everything routed through your AVR, it should have an auto lip sync feature. I believe it's a spec for HDMI 2.0a/b (although perhaps not required).

If there is no auto lip sync feature, your AVR should alternatively allow you to set input dependent manual adjustments. If not, you can also set it within the Panasonic player but you would need a test tone or easy scene to adjust.

[Oscarilbo]

Originally Posted by Nocheduro

UB9000 arrived yesterday, didn’t have time for any extensive watching, but I did do some quick tests with the first Mission Impossible UHD and the old MPEG-2 blu. UHD definitely has way more detail and shows colors that are nonexistent on the blu, even downconverted to 1080P and SDR. The one problem is the image is too dark. I had the TV type set to OLED, maybe basic luminance would help?

Move de Dynamic Range Conversion slider to your like. And turn the Optimizer ON

[Nocheduro]

Originally Posted by Oscarilbo

Move de Dynamic Range Conversion slider to your like. And turn the Optimizer ON

I did turn the optimizer on but didn’t see a difference in the image. I didn’t move the Dynamic Range Conversion slider though, so I’ll give that a try.

[TAC]

Can you use 8k hdmi cables with this player to a 4K tv and receiver? Thanks

[Oscarilbo]

Originally Posted by Nocheduro

I did turn the optimizer on but didn’t see a difference in the image. I didn’t move the Dynamic Range Conversion slider though, so I’ll give that a try.

That's why. The slider is basically where you finally settle the image to your display's range.

[gnicks]

Originally Posted by TAC

Can you use 8k hdmi cables with this player to a 4K tv and receiver? Thanks

Shouldn't be a problem for any reason I can think of.

My understanding is the cable is just capable of sending more data if you have devices that need it.

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by gnicks

Shouldn't be a problem for any reason I can think of.

My understanding is the cable is just capable of sending more data if you have devices that need it.

Yup, cables are just conduits with a specific bandwidth depending on what specification you are going for (HDMI 2.0 or 2.1).

Marketing uses terms like "4K" and "8K" and "HDR/Atmos!!!" cables, but in reality they have specifications for either 18gbps (HDMI 2.0) or 48gbps (HDMI 2.1).

[vinny98]

Originally Posted by morris_schaffer

When playing discs on my UB820, I notice the lip sync is off by just a little. I'm curious to know more about this phenomenon. What causes it? Is it caused by the player or the disc? And naturally, how can I remedy it? And if I do, will that generally solve it for all discs?

Thanks.

I was having this issue also, I am using both ports as I have an older reciever. Played around with a lot of settings, turned out to be the A/V Sync setting on my Sony TV that needed to be turned off.