Panasonic UB820/UB9000 4K UHD Blu-ray player

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by lilboyblu

Great explanation. I will leave it alone then. Thank you!

For reference I took a bunch of measurements (using my colourimeter and HCFR ) of what the Optimiser actually does to the signal, I explained it here https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=6551 but basically it doesn't alter the first 50% (100 nits) of the HDR signal, only what's above it. This is to maintain the correct APL. So by changing the XDR setting on the TV you'd also be altering that untouched 50% part of the signal and affecting the APL of the image, potentially making it look dimmer and darker than it should be.

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

For reference I took a bunch of measurements (using my colourimeter and HCFR ) of what the Optimiser actually does to the signal, I explained it here https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=6551 but basically it doesn't alter the first 50% (100 nits) of the HDR signal, only what's above it. This is to maintain the correct APL. So by changing the XDR setting on the TV you'd also be altering that untouched 50% part of the signal and affecting the APL of the image, potentially making it look dimmer and darker than it should be.

I'm slightly confused. When you say the first 100 nits aren't altered, only what's above it, is this only for content with peaks above 1,000 nits?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by pbz06

I'm slightly confused. When you say the first 100 nits aren't altered, only what's above it, is this only for content with peaks above 1,000 nits?

No, for all HDR content. Look at each graph, how the Optimiser (yellow) matches the first 50% of the intended signal (red) in each one. There's no need to tone map the first 50%/100 nits of the signal because there shouldn't be an HDR TV on the planet that's so bad that it can't show 100 nits!

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

They've renamed the devices I use, the CM Display (colourimeter) is now called the i1Display Studio and the CM Photo (spectro) is now called the i1Studio. Looking at amazon, the former sells for £135 new and the latter is £370, so basically £500 for the two devices.

The HCFR software is free, it doesn't allow for the sort of integrated automation that the paid calibration softwares do and won't work with the branded meters IIRC, but as I don't have a computer with an HDMI output on it anyway then it doesn't matter.

Forgive my ignorance, but I haven't looked into it for a few years, with the devices mentioned, I thought that they generally relay the results to a laptop (and you'd adjust their picture settings), so to do a third-party device you'd get the results adjust the image rinse and repeat, I know you're doing that with CalMan with on the fly readings/adjustments, but is that the gist?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by chip75

Forgive my ignorance, but I haven't looked into it for a few years, with the devices mentioned, I thought that they generally relay the results to a laptop (and you'd adjust their picture settings), so to do a third-party device you'd get the results adjust the image rinse and repeat, I know you're doing that with CalMan with on the fly readings/adjustments, but is that the gist?

I'm not sure I understand the question. I place the colourimeter on my TV then hook it up to my computer and run HCFR. I cue up the relevant test patterns using an external source (UHD player running patterns from USB) then run the relevant calibration sweep e.g. greyscale 0-100, colour primaries/secondaries, colour checker charts, colour saturation sweeps. Check results, tweak whatever needs tweaking on the TV, run the sweeps again.

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by chip75

Forgive my ignorance, but I haven't looked into it for a few years, with the devices mentioned, I thought that they generally relay the results to a laptop (and you'd adjust their picture settings), so to do a third-party device you'd get the results adjust the image rinse and repeat, I know you're doing that with CalMan with on the fly readings/adjustments, but is that the gist?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tioh9cegbg...Setup.jpg?dl=0

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

No, for all HDR content. Look at each graph, how the Optimiser (yellow) matches the first 50% of the intended signal (red) in each one. There's no need to tone map the first 50%/100 nits of the signal because there shouldn't be an HDR TV on the planet that's so bad that it can't show 100 nits!

Interesting. I can't tell a single difference when toggling, but with this data...Off it is, and clipping be damned

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I'm not sure I understand the question. I place the colourimeter on my TV then hook it up to my computer and run HCFR. I cue up the relevant test patterns using an external source (UHD player running patterns from USB) then run the relevant calibration sweep e.g. greyscale 0-100, colour primaries/secondaries, colour checker charts, colour saturation sweeps. Check results, tweak whatever needs tweaking on the TV, run the sweeps again.

Sorry my brain's a bit scrambled today, that's pretty much what I thought, but for some reason I keep thinking it's different. Thanks for the explanation.

[lilboyblu]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

For reference I took a bunch of measurements (using my colourimeter and HCFR ) of what the Optimiser actually does to the signal, I explained it here https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=6551 but basically it doesn't alter the first 50% (100 nits) of the HDR signal, only what's above it. This is to maintain the correct APL. So by changing the XDR setting on the TV you'd also be altering that untouched 50% part of the signal and affecting the APL of the image, potentially making it look dimmer and darker than it should be.

Wow, yeah, don’t want that. Thanks for the explanation and for linking to your graphs, and for the assistance on settings.

[NKB2017]

Not sure if you guys can help me... BUT I have two Panasonic UB9000 players and on BOTH... on some blurays the extra features are playing but ONLY with audio (No picture). Some supplements are fine... others are not and I'm only getting the sound (no video - just a black screen). This is 100% replicated on BOTH players with the same discs / extra features.
Is there a setting that I have ON or OFF that might be doing this???
Thank you.

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by NKB2017

Not sure if you guys can help me... BUT I have two Panasonic UB9000 players and on BOTH... on some blurays the extra features are playing but ONLY with audio (No picture). Some supplements are fine... others are not and I'm only getting the sound (no video - just a black screen). This is 100% replicated on BOTH players with the same discs / extra features.
Is there a setting that I have ON or OFF that might be doing this???
Thank you.

First off, can you tell us how you have the player connected to the TV and or AV/Receiver and then can you tell us what your Resolution Setting, HDMI (Video), and HDMI (Audio) Output settings are in the player? Should be in the Settings Menu. Sometimes settings override other settings, which can create issues from time to time. It could also be your HDCP setting and that you aren't connected to a HDCP 2.2 support display, which would then display a blank screen.

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by PUsokrJosh305

Alright, let me rephrase my statement. I have noticed with multiple movies that enabling Dynamic Tone Mapping has allowed me experience a better, overall picture than leaving it off. Star Wars: A New Hope is a great example. When DTM is off, the overall picture looks dull and doesn't seem to give the overall pop that is needed. With DTM "On," the picture looks much more like I expect. Even the star fields in the movie looks much, much better with it on.

Now in some cases, the picture becomes slightly dimmer, but not in the extreme terms as what the B8 does in Vincent's video on the Optimizer. The DTM on the C9 is not as aggressive as the B8 and B7. So slightly dimming or brightening the picture isn't a big deal to me which I feel like that is the same as what Dolby Vision does anyways. but even slightly less aggressive.

I've also did some comparisons to Disney movies on Disney + with Dolby Vision vs their HDR 10 counterparts on 4K UHD. I have found that many of the Dolby Vision streams match or has slight differences to their HDR counterparts when I have DTM set to "On" for the HDR Discs. But when I set it to "Off," the HDR 10 discs are lower than what is showing on Disney +. To me, this shows that DTM has its advantages. Sure, it's not "perfect" to standards. But at least it gives me an overall picture that seems make sense instead of leaving it "Off"

I'm just going to say 1 last thing on this and I'll leave it at that. My OLED is actually in a brighter room environment and not in a dedicated dark home theater. So, this might explain why I prefer Dynamic Tone Mapping turned "On" versus "Off" because I have to battle against a brighter room environment. One day, I will have it in a room that's specifically for a home theater and I will re-evaluate DTM at that time.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by NKB2017

Not sure if you guys can help me... BUT I have two Panasonic UB9000 players and on BOTH... on some blurays the extra features are playing but ONLY with audio (No picture). Some supplements are fine... others are not and I'm only getting the sound (no video - just a black screen). This is 100% replicated on BOTH players with the same discs / extra features.
Is there a setting that I have ON or OFF that might be doing this???
Thank you.

Are the discs region free but 50Hz (you're in a 60Hz territory)? I'd suggest seeing if secondary audio was disabled, but that usually affects sound, not video, but give it a try.

[NKB2017]

Originally Posted by PUsokrJosh305

First off, can you tell us how you have the player connected to the TV and or AV/Receiver and then can you tell us what your Resolution Setting, HDMI (Video), and HDMI (Audio) Output settings are in the player? Should be in the Settings Menu. Sometimes settings override other settings, which can create issues from time to time. It could also be your HDCP setting and that you aren't connected to a HDCP 2.2 support display, which would then display a blank screen.

Thank you... I will check tomorrow and post my settings and equipment. Thank you again!!!

[NKB2017]

Originally Posted by chip75

Are the discs region free but 50Hz (you're in a 60Hz territory)? I'd suggest seeing if secondary audio was disabled, but that usually affects sound, not video, but give it a try.

Thank you... I will check tomorrow and post my settings and equipment. Thank you again!!!

[PUsokrJosh305]

Alright I know I said I would drop the DTM Issue but I do have 1 more thing to add (I'm sure you guys are annoyed by now and I apologize.)

I decided to do a bit more examination this afternoon with the differences between DTM "On" vs. "Off" on my LG C9. Again, as mentioned before my set is calibrated. I took a look at Avengers: Endgame on 4K UHD and compared it with the Dolby Vision version on Disney +. Dolby Vision is truly what the director or director of photography wanted the film to look like and even though its a streaming version, I figured it would still be a good comparison.

I looked at the first scene with Hawkeye and his family. I looked at the sky, the landscape and the faces of the characters. When I had DTM "On" the sky was a bit brighter and the faces had a bit more brightness than the Dolby Vision version. While when the DTM was "Off," the sky was darker and the faces had a bit more darkness than the Dolby Vision version. This was all when pausing the film. When I played the movie normally without pause, DTM "On" seemed to be more on par with the Dolby Vision version except for the facial tones and some areas of brightness. With DTM "Off" however, the picture remained darker than the Dolby Vision version.

After doing this, I decided to test the same scene out with DTM "Off" and adjusted the Panasonic Optimizer to the OLED Setting and then to the Basic Luminance Setting and it made no difference. The tone mapping of the LG C9 just could not tone map to the standards that are set by the Dolby Vision Version of the film.

So, after looking at this, I came up with a conclusion: Yes, DTM has issues with the midtones. You all are correct in that. But, DTM still seems to be closer to the Dolby Vision version of a film because the tone mapping of the C9 (Possibly CX and C8) just can't get up to where it needs to be. That is what LG needs to be focusing on. Not so much of their peak brightness, but improving upon their tone mapping algorithm.

As Geoff has said before, having a Dolby Vision version of every film on disc would solve a lot of guesswork on tone mapping. We wouldn't have to question it as that would be the true version that the studio wants us to see. As for DTM, it comes down to personal preference. If you want to retain midtones but may be dimmer or brighter than the Dolby Vision version, then turn it off. But if you want it close to the Dolby Vision version but lose some of the midtones, then turn it "On." Either way, we lose out on something.

Alright, I'm done. You can all now go back to your local program, haha!

[chip75]

Originally Posted by NKB2017

Thank you... I will check tomorrow and post my settings and equipment. Thank you again!!!

Also check to see if the player's on-screen display is popping up when your blank screen is present. If it isn't I'd guess it's a handshake issue (has the screen flashed static or flashed green?).

[LordoftheRings]

About the audio part (DAC) of the UB820 and UB9000.
Anyone still uses those with an interest towards the audiophile equation of the videophile accompaniment?

In case of an interest ...
• https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...-review.16305/

• https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...-review.14324/

This is only objective; no two people have the same two sets of identical ears with the two same emotional music level intensity from the heart and soul, none.
The 9000 simply measures better, much better...closer to the Oppo 205.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by richwood

Farmageddon has problems in DV as well. IIRC you've just ordered a copy, so that's worth checking.

Just to confirm: Shaun the Sheep: Farmageddon is FOOKED in DV on the Pannysonic. It's not even a subtle flicker like on Ghost in the Shell '95, it's a big jump in brightness like someone's turning a light switch on and off. The HDR10 layer is fine, and playback of the same disc in DV on the OPPO 203 shows no flickering at all.

[riptor3076]

I haven't been following this thread recently. Has any news come out on if Panasonic plans on ever releasing a firmware update to fix the DV issues that seem to be impacting several discs? I know Robert mentioned he was going to have a meeting and would bring up the issues but either I missed the post or we never heard an update. I'm starting to wish I'd just have bought the cheaper 420 non DV model at this point.