Panasonic UB820/UB9000 4K UHD Blu-ray player

[nathan_393]

When you use the HDR Optimizer, do you leave Sony's tone mapping turned on? If so, do you set it to "Gradation Preferred" or "Prefer Brightness"?

[Tok]

Originally Posted by gkolb

Big FYI. Black Panther in the Infinity Saga set does NOT have a DV layer on that disc. IF someone bought the original SINGLE release of Panther, it is the only MCU movie disc that Disney ever made with the DV layer before they decided to stop using DV on disc.

Same with Star Wars. Only original The Last Jedi single release is only one with DV. The later release of SW 1-9 set had DV omitted from the disc of TLJ.

To my knowledge, Disney has not used DV on a disc release ever since those two.

Correct Disney is really cutting corners on their physical media releases since D+🤮 launched. It’s nice for convenience I still don’t think I will continue with my subscription once my 3 years for 2 promo is over. I’m really only interested in the Obiwan show with McGregor. Haven’t been overly impressed with the Marvel shows except WandaVision. The Black Widow movie felt closer in tone with one of the streaming shows than a big budget film.

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by nathan_393

Hi folks. I made the mistake of posting this is a new thread, and was re-directed here. Geoff D was kind enough to chip in, but I'm curious if any of you are using the 820/9000 with a newer OLED TV, and still using the HDR Optimizer feature. I just purchased Sony's A80J, and to my eyes, leaving the feature off lets the TV get brighter without obvious signs of clipping (I used Into the Spider-Verse as a test disc). That being said, my eyes are often wrong.

With new OLED TVs, like the A80/A90/C1/G1, is it worth using Panasonic's HDR Optimizer, or are new TVs good enough at dynamic tone mapping that the feature is unnecessary?

Depends on the TV/projector. Even with TVs getting better at tone mapping (not dynamic tone mapping), there is a still a chance it won't be able to tone map 100% of the picture. That's where the Optimizer comes in. It takes care of the things your TV can't tone map properly. Like my LG C9 does a great job tone mapping movies that are HDR graded to at least 1,500 nits. After that though, it starts having issues, which is why I use my 820's Optimizer to take care of everything graded from 1,500 nits and up.

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by sephirothkefka

When I tried the Optimizer, it was quite inconsistent on a title per title basis; some made no real difference while others were more constrained in terms of brightness. I could definitely see a use for this with non-OLED screens but for me at least I have it off.

Well, that's the point. The HDR Optimizer has a setting that basically tells the player when to help tone map vs when not to tone map. Like the OLED or Medium/High setting is really setting the player at 1,000 nits. So when an HDR movie is graded higher than 1,000 nits, the player will help tone map the HDR content higher than 1,000 nits. If you set the Optimizer Setting to Basic, it will tell the player to tone map anything HDR graded 500 nits or above. And lastly, the highest setting "Super High" is telling the player to help tone map anything graded higher than 1,500 nits.

The only way to know what setting you need it on is to test it. The titles of these setting are only suggested as they were written back in 2018/2019. With TVs getting better, some of these setting titles are a bit dated. Like my LG C9 OLED can tone map higher than 1,000 nits, but the OLED setting is set at 1,000. To me, Panasonic should produce a new player that has an updated Optimizer. Geoff and many others have talked about having more control over the HDR setting. Instead of having 500 nit increments, it should be 100 or even 50 nit increments.

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by Tok

Correct Disney is really cutting corners on their physical media releases since D+🤮 launched. It’s nice for convenience I still don’t think I will continue with my subscription once my 3 years for 2 promo is over. I’m really only interested in the Obiwan show with McGregor. Haven’t been overly impressed with the Marvel shows except WandaVision. The Black Widow movie felt closer in tone with one of the streaming shows than a big budget film.

Depends on the TV. My LG C9 with the Panny 820 Optimizer set at the highest setting (Super High Luminance) and the Dynamic Tone Mapping setting "On" has allowed me to pretty much experience what a Dolby Vision option would look on a Disney Disc. There are just a few differences here and there but overall, the HDR10 Disc with all of my settings looks almost identical to the Dolby Vision presentation on Disney +. Personally, I find it better than the Disney + version.

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by evoll

I have a 65 A80J and i use the optimizer. With 1000 nit discs i see no difference with it on or off but when i put in a 4000 or higher nit disc i can def see a diff. with the optimizer. I put in the pan 4k disc and with it on it brings back more color and less bright highlights being blown out. My oleds all have been calibrated so i know it's not to much contrast or setting wrong on the tv blowing out highlights or color.

No, it's a limitation of the TV. Your TV can only tone map so much before it blows out the highlights. This is why the HDR Optimizer is key. It helps take care of the things your TV can't tone map properly.

[gnicks]

Originally Posted by nathan_393

When you use the HDR Optimizer, do you leave Sony's tone mapping turned on? If so, do you set it to "Gradation Preferred" or "Prefer Brightness"?

I would definitely recommend gradation preferred as the most accurate option.

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by nathan_393

When you use the HDR Optimizer, do you leave Sony's tone mapping turned on? If so, do you set it to "Gradation Preferred" or "Prefer Brightness"?

Keep "gradation preferred" on at all times, whether you use HDR Optimizer or not. It's the most accurate tracking of EOTF.

Most people are confused what HDR Optimizer is and what it does. It's a static "one time re-packaging" of the disc data and tonemaps to your target (i.e. 1,000 nits). It does this up front, and your TV has no idea it's tonemapped. It doesn't "take over" or does anything more intelligent than that. If you watch content with peak 1,000 nits, it will literally do nothing since it doesn't need to. If you watch something with 4,000 nits, it will tonemap ONLY anything above that down to 1,000 nits. If you see brightness fluctuations, it's because when it's OFF your TV may display peaks higher than 1,000 nits or give the illusion it is, but it will be clipping info.

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by nathan_393

Hi folks. I made the mistake of posting this is a new thread, and was re-directed here. Geoff D was kind enough to chip in, but I'm curious if any of you are using the 820/9000 with a newer OLED TV, and still using the HDR Optimizer feature. I just purchased Sony's A80J, and to my eyes, leaving the feature off lets the TV get brighter without obvious signs of clipping (I used Into the Spider-Verse as a test disc). That being said, my eyes are often wrong.

With new OLED TVs, like the A80/A90/C1/G1, is it worth using Panasonic's HDR Optimizer, or are new TVs good enough at dynamic tone mapping that the feature is unnecessary?

I know people are raving about "omg the new OLEDs are so bright" and "omg double tonemapping", but they would still benefit because they still don't reach 1,000 nits and they still clip.

And although we focus mostly on white specular highlights, OLEDs clip color more often but it's less noticeable because we tend to focus on the specular highlights. Toggle on vs off with the Optimizer on a high APL scene and you'll see colors restored that you didn't know were clipping. I think if A90J and A80J owners tested these high APL scenes or movies graded to 4,000 nits, they'll use HDR Optimizer...to me it's almost a no-brainer unless you like clipped highlights and colors. The S&M UHD demo disc is also fantastic to see the differences.

[teddyballgame]

Originally Posted by pbz06

I know people are raving about "omg the new OLEDs are so bright" and "omg double tonemapping", but they would still benefit because they still don't reach 1,000 nits and they still clip.

And although we focus mostly on white specular highlights, OLEDs clip color more often but it's less noticeable because we tend to focus on the specular highlights. Toggle on vs off with the Optimizer on a high APL scene and you'll see colors restored that you didn't know were clipping. I think if A90J and A80J owners tested these high APL scenes or movies graded to 4,000 nits, they'll use HDR Optimizer...to me it's almost a no-brainer unless you like clipped highlights and colors. The S&M UHD demo disc is also fantastic to see the differences.

It would have been cool if Panny would've included a test disc with clips like the demo content portion on spears and munsil UHD. So handy for letting new users get a grasp for what's going on and how the player will work best in conjunction with their specific TV. So often I think they put in a 1000 nit disc and nothing happens and then the confusion begins .

edit: you took the words out of my mouth but i'll update your quote anyway

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by teddyballgame

It would have been cool if Panny would've included a test disc with clips like the demo content portion on spears and munsil UHD. So handy for letting new users get a grasp for what's going on and how the player will work best in conjunction with their specific TV. So often I think they put in a 1000 nit disc and nothing happens and then the confusion begins .

edit: you took the words out of my mouth but i'll update your quote anyway

Haha, I usually type a fast response and then go back and edit

[nathan_393]

I used Into the Spider-Verse for my test, which is supposed to be very bright, but the only difference it made was reducing impact, which makes me think I shouldn't use the OLED setting on the 820. I'll try one of the higher settings, as suggested, and do more experimentation. Thanks all for your input and feedback!

[gnicks]

Originally Posted by nathan_393

I used Into the Spider-Verse for my test, which is supposed to be very bright, but the only difference it made was reducing impact, which makes me think I shouldn't use the OLED setting on the 820. I'll try one of the higher settings, as suggested, and do more experimentation. Thanks all for your input and feedback!

The difference is subtle. Watching on an A90J with gradation preferred, I do see additional highlight detail in extremely bright shots by using the HDR Optimizer.

You are essentially choosing between a slightly brighter picture or slightly better highlight detail.

I choose to use the optimizer to retain that highlight detail, and the image is still plenty bright, in my opinion.

[NeilZ]

It's exactly like PBZ said.

Personally I'll never turn off the optimizer. Once you realize how incredible the benefits are for light cannon nit content, there's no way to live without on an OLED (or any display type really).

[evoll]

Originally Posted by PUsokrJosh305

No, it's a limitation of the TV. Your TV can only tone map so much before it blows out the highlights. This is why the HDR Optimizer is key. It helps take care of the things your TV can't tone map properly.

I will say that with my new A80j it doesn't need much of the optimizer even for high nit movies compared to my old E6 oled.

[wxman2003]

Originally Posted by evoll

I will say that with my new A80j it doesn't need much of the optimizer even for high nit movies compared to my old E6 oled.

I agree. I leave it off with my A90J. With my E6 it has to be on.

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by evoll

I will say that with my new A80j it doesn't need much of the optimizer even for high nit movies compared to my old E6 oled.

Sony seems to have figured out (not 100% but close) how to tone map without blowing out highlights. It also sounds like the A80J and A90J exceed the 1,500 nit tone mapping that the Optimizer would limit so it would make sense to turn it off. My LG C9 seems to tone map pretty close to 1,500 nit content but seems to fall short on it at times, which is why I have it on Super High Luminance.

[Misioon_Odisea]

[Show spoiler]

Originally Posted by Misioon_Odisea

1.- My player has massive trouble playing back my "The SpongeBob Movie: Sponge Out of Water" Blu-ray disc by Paramount Pictures on the segment from 00:59:20 until around 00:59:31 (Near the end of Chapter 12 and taking place during a signature part of the movie, to add injury). Audio completely stops and Video freezes to a halt into a corrupted and pixelated mess until the segment ends and proper playback resumes afterwards for the rest of the film. Tried different player settings and language track combinations to no avail. Video does not exhibit anomalies when fast forwarding or reversing, but corruption occurs when attempting to resume normal playback in the middle of the offending segment. And it's the exact same spot, always. Disc has been inspected before inserting into player, is clean and free of scratches and works properly in every other player I played it in, including my Sony UBP-X700.

[Show spoiler]

Well alas, I just found another problem disc within my library, which shows the exact same symptoms plus more this time. It's the "Bayonetta: Bloody Fate" disc, during Chapter 8, lasting from 50:07 until around 51:10. However, this time the video does shows anomalies during fast-forwarding and reversing through the problem area, there's an inaccessible area from 50:07 until around 50:15 where the player halts fast-forwarding/reversing and resumes normal playback by itself after skipping to 51:13. Disc was cleaned and inspected, shows no signs of wear or tear, but problems persists on UB420 and no ill effects on X700.

[Show spoiler]

I believe the problem may lie on the player's chipset simply not being able to decode or access the information on the above described segments of the discs. If it were a problem on the discs, they why do they play fine on other players? If it were a disc tray/lens problem, then why are the problems confined to these two spots, and not randomized/intermittent and present on other discs? And if it were a layer transition problem, then why do all other kinds of dual-layer discs I've played on it work properly? Maybe it's only my player, but it would be great to see if someone else with the same discs and a UB420/820/9000 checks to see if they have the same problems as I do. Either way, too bad stmhlm's venture of contacting Panasonic directly a few months ago didn't get us anywhere, because that could have shed some light to my present situation.

[ThingFish]

I just bought a Ub820 and so far i'm very pleased with the way it performs. I was going to buy the 9000 but couldn't justify the extra cost.

I use it with a Sony A80J and the picture is stunning.

[Gold Ranger]

I watched Spider-Man: Far From Home last night.
I had to turn back on the Dolby Vision and HDR 10 settings.
It was so faded out.

Why can't this player detect the meta data layers and turn on or off as needed?