Panasonic UB820/UB9000 4K UHD Blu-ray player

[panasonicst60]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

So you know exactly what your peak light output and/or tone mapping threshold is for your TV, and you tune it to that? Which pattern? I would like to know more (cue Starship Troopers gif). And what do you set the Optimiser to initially in the player's setup menu? OLED becuz that's what ye have?


But as the pattern itself has several different nit levels (and accompanying metadata) then which do you use?

I HAS QUESTIONS

It's been awhile since I messed with any settings, so my memory is cloudy. Yes I know what my peak light output is. It's at 780ish. It's the pattern that shows clipping. Yes my player is set to OLED.

I used the 1000nits on the disc. You can adjust to other nits too but you will compromise the overall brightness level. With 1 or 2 clicks it will tone down the light cannon without compromising the overall brightness.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by panasonicst60

It's been awhile since I messed with any settings, so my memory is cloudy. Yes I know what my peak light output is. It's at 780ish. It's the pattern that shows clipping. Yes my player is set to OLED.

I used the 1000nits on the disc. You can adjust to other nits too but you will compromise the overall brightness level. With 1 or 2 clicks it will tone down the light cannon without compromising the overall brightness.

Ah, so basically it still doesn't do what we'd like it to do e.g. essentially allow a manual level of control over the point at which the Optimiser takes over but without compromising average brightness. I've was lowering the contrast and thus reducing brightness on my TV to adjust the clipping for >1000 nit content like four years ago, I didn't think this solution would just be the same thing! (my TV can display 1000-nit content in 1:1 fashion so it has no need for a level of tweakery in-between 500-1000.)

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Ah, so basically it still doesn't do what we'd like it to do e.g. essentially allow a manual level of control over the point at which the Optimiser takes over but without compromising average brightness. I've was lowering the contrast and thus reducing brightness on my TV to adjust the clipping for >1000 nit content like four years ago, I didn't think this solution would just be the same thing! (my TV can display 1000-nit content in 1:1 fashion so it has no need for a level of tweakery in-between 500-1000.)

So does this mean I’m not setting the player right or is my method just a different way of doing it??

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by PUsokrJosh305

So does this mean I’m not setting the player right or is my method just a different way of doing it??

I'm now thinking that the reason why my settings may work for me is because I use DTM and others do not. But that's ok considering everything looks amazing and HDR10 content pretty much matches it's Dolby Vision versions.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by PUsokrJosh305

I'm now thinking that the reason why my settings may work for me is because I use DTM and others do not. But that's ok considering everything looks amazing and HDR10 content pretty much matches it's Dolby Vision versions.

So you adjust the tone curve on the Optimiser as well? For some reason I thought you had it on stock settings. I've not been paying attention I guess!

Lowering the global brightness of the HDR image to get back more highlight information isn't going to be majorly damaging, as long as the respective brightness is being represented fully to begin with (so you've got more room to groove), and ideally you're watching in a darkened room.

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

So you adjust the tone curve on the Optimiser as well? For some reason I thought you had it on stock settings. I've not been paying attention I guess!

Lowering the global brightness of the HDR image to get back more highlight information isn't going to be majorly damaging, as long as the respective brightness is being represented fully to begin with (so you've got more room to groove), and ideally you're watching in a darkened room.

No, you were right the first time. I have my 820 HDR Optimizer set at the Super Luminance setting (even though I have an LG C9), tune it “On” and keep everything at 0. I do use my LG’s DTM, but that’s it.

[Geoff D]

Oh. I'm getting confused now!

I was just replying to matey who said that adjusting the tone curve would result in the optimal adaptation of the Optimiser, but didn't initially say that it reduced brightness as well. In which case it's not the optimal adaptation of the Optimiser IMO because it undermines one of its core features, that of maintaining that first 100 nits of the signal no matter what which is essential for keeping APL at the correct level. Yes, I literally just said that HDR can stand to lose a little brightness when tone mapping to preserve other parts of the image, but as I can just do that with a few clicks on my TV remote I don't need the Optimiser for it.

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Oh. I'm getting confused now!

I was just replying to matey who said that adjusting the tone curve would result in the optimal adaptation of the Optimiser, but didn't initially say that it reduced brightness as well. In which case it's not the optimal adaptation of the Optimiser IMO because it undermines one of its core features, that of maintaining that first 100 nits of the signal no matter what which is essential for keeping APL at the correct level. Yes, I literally just said that HDR can stand to lose a little brightness when tone mapping to preserve other parts of the image, but as I can just do that with a few clicks on my TV remote I don't need the Optimiser for it.

I apologize for the confusion. When I read your reply to panasonicst60, it sounded that was how the player should be set up, which then told me I was doing it wrong. But now I understand that I’m doing what I’m supposed to with the Optimizer.

Maybe one day Panasonic will bring a new player out with an updated Optimizer so we can tune in the player to the limit of where all of our TVs can tone map. Then it will be perfect! But one can dream I guess!

[Purploros]

I’m deciding between the UB420 and UB820 for use with a projector I have access to so that I can screen 4K discs in the space (I do not know the specifics of the projector model): since I will be down-converting to SDR, would I not need the 820’s Dolby Vision enablement? Would the UB420 down-convert to SDR any “worse” than the 820?

Thank you in advance and apologies for my technical ignorance.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Purploros

I’m deciding between the UB420 and UB820 for use with a projector I have access to so that I can screen 4K discs in the space (I do not know the specifics of the projector model): since I will be down-converting to SDR, would I not need the 820’s Dolby Vision enablement? Would the UB420 down-convert to SDR any “worse” than the 820?

Thank you in advance and apologies for my technical ignorance.

DV has nothing to do with the SDR downconversion. The players do their own conversion using the HDR10 base layer, and between the 420 and 820 their conversions are identical.

[stmhlm]

New firmware, sorry if I'm late.
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...3#post18909413

Ver 1.69, 29/Sep/2021

https://av.jpn.support.panasonic.com.../ub420_us.html
https://av.jpn.support.panasonic.com...20_canada.html
https://av.jpn.support.panasonic.com...0_oceania.html
https://av.jpn.support.panasonic.com...b420_euro.html
https://av.jpn.support.panasonic.com...420_china.html

[richwood]

Originally Posted by stmhlm

New firmware, sorry if I'm late.

Only about 11 pages late

[chip75]

Originally Posted by richwood

Only about 11 pages late

Just like Panasonic. Better late than never.

[richwood]

Originally Posted by chip75

Just like Panasonic. Better late than never.

Panasonic would wait another few hundred pages

[stmhlm]

Yeah, well, to my defense, I don't own any Panasonic player, plus it's been six months since I submitted the document. Not heard a single word from Panasonic, not that I'm surprised, I was prepared for that, but it's sad to see their less enthusiastic side.

I'll not say the new firmware is in place because of me, because I don't believe it for a second. It's taken them 1,5 years to deliver playability updates, only that in itself is a joke.

Can anyone of you check the titles in my document and see if the issues have been fixed?

Cheers!

[Misioon_Odisea]

Originally Posted by stmhlm

Can anyone of you check the titles in my document and see if the issues have been fixed?

Cheers!

Hello! Hope you're doing great.

The firmware was practically geared towards addressing the problematic Dolby Vision discs, which were our main concern and are now fixed. Unfortunately not the ones I submitted, the SpongeBob disc still glitches (and I found another disc afterwards with the exact same symptoms on my UB420 while working properly on other players ), but this has not been verified by anybody else so far, so it most likely may boil down to my unit being defective. And the Disney discs still have the slow menus, and this has been verified by others before the publishing of firmware 1.69.

Originally Posted by newtbludger

just popped in my copy of Hunchback and Tarzan on bluray and can confirm the slow menus. I have an 820.

Others have also reported that the defective Donnie Darko discs still stutter, even after the firmware update.

Originally Posted by gnicks

Nope. Still Donnie Darko: Stop Motion Edition. Tested it after Knives Out worked

Either way, I thank you for your efforts of trying to contact Panasonic directly, regardless of the end results.

[stmhlm]

Thanks for that thorough report, Mision_Odisea!

Hope you're doing great as well. Sad to hear Panasonic haven't managed to adress the disc playability issues found in my/our document, the feedback of the player cannot get any closer/personal in a consumer/Panasonic relation than that. They surely (now confirmed) have their priorities elsewhere (where???) and I do not expect any further results out of our endeavour, it's now black and white. Disc playback in general is looking very weak in this regard, having manufacturers not even caring to support existing customers with disc playability issues.

Personally I'll be looking elsewhere in the future, not at Panasonic. Thanks again for your update on this!

[mdhaus]

Originally Posted by stmhlm

Thanks for that thorough report, Mision_Odisea!

Hope you're doing great as well. Sad to hear Panasonic haven't managed to adress the disc playability issues found in my/our document, the feedback of the player cannot get any closer/personal in a consumer/Panasonic relation than that. They surely (now confirmed) have their priorities elsewhere (where???) and I do not expect any further results out of our endeavour, it's now black and white. Disc playback in general is looking very weak in this regard, having manufacturers not even caring to support existing customers with disc playability issues.

Personally I'll be looking elsewhere in the future, not at Panasonic. Thanks again for your update on this!

To be fair, Panasonic could have easily ignored the complaints about the Dolby Vision disc issues and simply moved on - But they didn't. They fixed it. Did it take longer than hoped? Of course. Does it mean that their "priorities are elsewhere?" No. Not necessarily.

[thebarnman]

Originally Posted by stmhlm

Yeah, well, to my defense, I don't own any Panasonic player, plus it's been six months since I submitted the document. Not heard a single word from Panasonic, not that I'm surprised, I was prepared for that, but it's sad to see their less enthusiastic side.

I'll not say the new firmware is in place because of me, because I don't believe it for a second. It's taken them 1,5 years to deliver playability updates, only that in itself is a joke.

Can anyone of you check the titles in my document and see if the issues have been fixed?

Cheers!

I think you helped in a big way. I also think the people at Panasonic look at their product thinking there's no way any problems could arise from such a perfect design.

I get that impression because when the owner of Value Electronics asked if there were going to be any updated models of the Panasonic players, the Panasonic people asked him what improvement do you think it needs? The answer from the owner of Value Electronics couldn't come up with any suggestions. So I think the contacts from Panasonic are so very vain to think it's not necessary for a player as top end as theirs as needing anything to be done with it.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by thebarnman

I think you helped in a big way. I also think the people at Panasonic look at their product thinking there's no way any problems could arise from such a perfect design.

I get that impression because when the owner of Value Electronics asked if there were going to be any updated models of the Panasonic players, the Panasonic people asked him what improvement do you think it needs? The answer from the owner of Value Electronics couldn't come up with any suggestions. So I think the contacts from Panasonic are so very vain to think it's not necessary for a player as top end as theirs as needing anything to be done with it.

Vanity has nothing to do with not producing new models of players, as what else can be added when the technology is already this mature? Note that Sony haven’t produced any new models either for a year or two, does that make them arrogantly vain as well? No. But as UHD was built atop existing BD specs then the format was born fully formed in terms of underlying playback technology, I remember people saying how slow and clunky the first 4K players would be just because that’s how the first Blu-ray players were, their assumption being that 4K was some entirely new system, not a format extension. But the players were fast and smooth right out of the gate and everything released since then has been a slight refinement.

There have been expansions to that spec, yes, like adding HDR10+ as well as enabling Dolby Vision (which was in the spec from the start, it just took longer for the internal hardware to become available), plus Panny adding on their own HDR Optimiser, but as the current top-end Pannys have all of those things then what else is there? If they released new players with just the option added of being able to deactivate the auto-off function or with 8K upscaling then they’d be derided for it by some people, so they can’t win.

And with the market for physical media contracting year on year, month on month even, then the manufacturers aren’t going to put in the time and money to annually redesign their player ranges any more. We’re well past the stage of players getting released every single year with a new hat a la Malibu Stacey.