Panasonic UB820/UB9000 4K UHD Blu-ray player

[Vilya]

I have almost purchased the Panasonic 9000 a few times, but comments like these from Geoff D have always led me to remove it from my shopping cart:

Originally Posted by Geoff D

As soon as Pannysonic created this SOC the usage of DVD was little more than an afterthought. There's no aspect ratio control whatsoever and no "source direct" 480i/576i output which means you can't avoid the deinterlacing, which is seriously poor. These Pannys are excellent spinners for BD and UHD but my word they are hot garbage for DVD.

I still watch a lot of DVDs, so the Panasonic's poor performance in this area disappoints me. A $1000 4K disc player should be able to play DVDs as well, or better, than any other disc player made. I really dislike paying so much more for a machine that can't even play a DVD competently.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

A potato would be better than the Panny for file playback, lol

I really like how my Oppo 203 can play almost any file type that I feed it. A player like the Panasonic 9000 that costs nearly twice as much as my Oppo 203 should be able to do the same.

I also recall that Geoff D said that the tone mapping on newer TVs have improved so much that the need for the HDR optimizer becomes less and less all the time. As I do not own, or foresee owning, a projector will my current and next TV benefit enough from the HDR Optimizer to make the above trade-offs worth it?

I want another 4K disc player, but I would like to see an all new make and model that does what the Oppo 203/205 does best combined with what the Panasonic 9000 does best. When a player costs a $1000 or more, I should not have to give up anything that I already enjoy with my older, and far cheaper, player.

[Geoff D]

Unfortunately there are no guarantees that x future display will have decent tone mapping so it’s handy to have the Optimiser as a backup, but at the same time it’s a crude tool that gets very little usage from me (and that usage gets less and less whenever Sony reissue an older Light Cannon™️ title with DV). It’d be awesome if Panny updated the Optimiser to have more granular control over the nits output rather than 500-nit steps, as well as eliminate the throttling of bit depth that causes mild banding when using it.

The 9000 is still a very high quality player of BDs and UHDs, but what I wouldn’t do is pay almost a grand for it just to get XLR outputs. The 820 however will give you video performance that is nigh on identical apart from a couple of extra picture settings, it’s well worth your consideration.

[sapiendut]

A 4K player should perform best for 4K performance and that’s it. (Although I do agree Pana as a DVD player sux ballz).

I am, however, prefer to use the best 4K (and BD) player as intended and also use a BDP-103D and 105D as my DVD and VCD playback. I don’t want to compromise especially on the 4K.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

A 4K player should perform best for 4K performance and that’s it. (Although I do agree Pana as a DVD player sux ballz).

I am, however, prefer to use the best 4K (and BD) player as intended and also use a BDP-103D and 105D as my DVD and VCD playback. I don’t want to compromise especially on the 4K.

I agree with the 4K performance bit, I mean I don’t need ANY of the extra shit that has been put into TVs over the years, like all this ‘smart’ stuff. But at the same time a disc spinner has long been a player of legacy formats and it leaves a slightly sour taste that Panny’s treatment of DVD is so very bad in these ultimate high-end decks of theirs. And having decent file playback is a privilege, not a right, but even with that proviso the Pannys are especially bad at doing that too.

[Vilya]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

A 4K player should perform best for 4K performance and that’s it. (Although I do agree Pana as a DVD player sux ballz).

I am, however, prefer to use the best 4K (and BD) player as intended and also use a BDP-103D and 105D as my DVD and VCD playback. I don’t want to compromise especially on the 4K.

I disagree entirely with limiting best performance to only 4K discs. That makes as little sense as saying that a 4K TV should only excel at displaying a 4K signal; everything else, who cares? Should we have to keep a 1080p TV for our blu-rays and a 480p TV for our DVDs in order to properly enjoy them?

A 4K disc player should do an excellent job playing all supported disc formats just as a 4K TV should do an excellent job displaying lower resolutions. Seeing as 4K disc players are marketed as being backward compatible, as were blu-ray players before them, then such compatibility was "intended" and they should be able to play all supported disc formats at least as well as their predecessors. A $1000 disc spinner should be able to play a friggin' DVD as well as a $69 blu-ray player no "ifs, ands, or buts" about it.

In other words, a feature worth adding, like a job worth doing, is worth doing well or not at all. A player as expensive as the 9000 should perform all of its functions well.

[Blu Balls]

Sony X800 owner here. I'm looking to upgrade to a player with Dolby Vision, and I was wondering if the Panasonic UB820K is a substantial upgrade over the Sony X800M2.
The Panny isn't currently on sale, but the Sony is going for $250. Would I be wise to wait it out for a possible player announcement at CES or choose between one of these two players? I was going to wait for a PS5, but I have heard that the 4K player isn't quite up to snuff in terms of picture quality.

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by Blu Balls

Sony X800 owner here. I'm looking to upgrade to a player with Dolby Vision, and I was wondering if the Panasonic UB820K is a substantial upgrade over the Sony X800M2.
The Panny isn't currently on sale, but the Sony is going for $250. Would I be wise to wait it out for a possible player announcement at CES or choose between one of these two players? I was going to wait for a PS5, but I have heard that the 4K player isn't quite up to snuff in terms of picture quality.

Yes. For upscaling and 4K disc playback, it’s much better. Just don’t forget to set it up properly a per my link in the signature. The number of people (including dealers) who don’t set it up properly is mind boggling.

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by Blu Balls

Sony X800 owner here. I'm looking to upgrade to a player with Dolby Vision, and I was wondering if the Panasonic UB820K is a substantial upgrade over the Sony X800M2.
The Panny isn't currently on sale, but the Sony is going for $250. Would I be wise to wait it out for a possible player announcement at CES or choose between one of these two players? I was going to wait for a PS5, but I have heard that the 4K player isn't quite up to snuff in terms of picture quality.

Substantial is subjective, but as a UB9000 owner I would say "no". I agree it's the "best" (sold my Oppo 203) but we are talking about the margins. Really need to pause and pixel peep side by side or with specific test patterns to see differences in upscaling, chroma etc.

The biggest advantage the Panny's have is the HDR Optimizer, which really does help with OLEDs and Projectors - and TV's that rely on the metadata to do their own tonemapping (i.e. some TV's tonemap based on the Max Master Monitor Luminance instead of the actual max luminance of the content). If your TV is more recent it should be able to tonemap correctly now. Also, the brighter your TV's peak luminance is the less needed the Optimizer is.

I don't think anybody would be able to tell the differences between 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 upconversion differences on any actual content, especially from viewing distance. Also as I've said before, most TV's subsample anyway so feeding anything more than 4:2:2 is a moot point.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

Yes. For upscaling and 4K disc playback, it’s much better. Just don’t forget to set it up properly a per my link in the signature. The number of people (including dealers) who don’t set it up properly is mind boggling.

He hasn’t even got it yet, give him a chance before you plug your video!

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

He hasn’t even got it yet, give him a chance before you plug your video!

Where is my tongue out emoticon. LOL

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by pbz06

Substantial is subjective, but as a UB9000 owner I would say "no". I agree it's the "best" (sold my Oppo 203) but we are talking about the margins. Really need to pause and pixel peep side by side or with specific test patterns to see differences in upscaling, chroma etc.

The biggest advantage the Panny's have is the HDR Optimizer, which really does help with OLEDs and Projectors - and TV's that rely on the metadata to do their own tonemapping (i.e. some TV's tonemap based on the Max Master Monitor Luminance instead of the actual max luminance of the content). If your TV is more recent it should be able to tonemap correctly now. Also, the brighter your TV's peak luminance is the less needed the Optimizer is.

I don't think anybody would be able to tell the differences between 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 upconversion differences on any actual content, especially from viewing distance. Also as I've said before, most TV's subsample anyway so feeding anything more than 4:2:2 is a moot point.

Just because every equipment can upsample to 4:4:4 doesn’t mean all upsample created equal. After all, the subsampling is lossy in nature. If you use a Sony TV, for example, you don’t really need the upsampler but if you use a Samsung Tv, the difference is very noticeable.

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

Just because every equipment can upsample to 4:4:4 doesn’t mean all upsample created equal. After all, the subsampling is lossy in nature. If you use a Sony TV, for example, you don’t really need the upsampler but if you use a Samsung Tv, the difference is very noticeable.

That's fair. It's been years since I've owned a Samsung and most of my observations are related to Sony TV's. I still don't think most people can tell at a normal viewing distance with chroma upsmapling differences and which methods different devices or TVs use (unless pixel peeping and using test patterns). To be clear, I agree with you that Panasonic is the best I'm just less on the "omg night and day, everyone should totally spend $900 instead of $300"

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by Blu Balls

Sony X800 owner here. I'm looking to upgrade to a player with Dolby Vision, and I was wondering if the Panasonic UB820K is a substantial upgrade over the Sony X800M2.
The Panny isn't currently on sale, but the Sony is going for $250. Would I be wise to wait it out for a possible player announcement at CES or choose between one of these two players? I was going to wait for a PS5, but I have heard that the 4K player isn't quite up to snuff in terms of picture quality.

X800 and UB820 owner here.

If you need the Optimizer and/or auto DV playback, then go with the 820. It has a cheap build and slow, clunky controls when compared to the X800 though. However, it does have a front display which I find a big plus.

The X800M2 has the same sturdy build as the X800, but for whatever reason DV has to be manually switched on/off. Unfortunately, like the X800, the X800M2 does not have a front display.

Picture quality between the X800 (X800M2 should be the same in that department) and the 820 is indistinguisable to my eyes when viewing real world content.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by DJR662

X800 and UB820 owner here.

If you need the Optimizer and/or auto DV playback, then go with the 820. It has a cheap build and slow, clunky controls when compared to the X800 though. However, it does have a front display which I find a big plus.

The X800M2 has the same sturdy build as the X800, but for whatever reason DV has to be manually switched on/off. Unfortunately, like the X800, the X800M2 does not have a front display.

Picture quality between the X800 (X800M2 should be the same in that department) and the 820 is indistinguisable to my eyes when viewing real world content.

Same, and I’ve got the X800, Panny 820 and OPPO 203. Can I tell an actual difference between all three playing HD or UHD content? Can I bollocks.

[edit]

(But the reason why I have three is the DVD playback on the OPPO is far superior to the Panny but the Panny has other functionality that I use, like the HDR metadata info screen and that Optimiser on rare occasions. It’s also got a simple DV on/off menu toggle which makes HDR10/DV comparisons so much easier than the clunky-ass procedures on the OPPO. OPPO does have that superb file playback though, it’s invaluable for any QC work that I do. And I’ve got the Sony X800 because it came with the TV in a package deal and I dropped it the first time I got it out of the box, smashing the plastic on the side. So I kept it as a backup but it’s a decent little player in itself. Tough little bastard too )

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by pbz06

That's fair. It's been years since I've owned a Samsung and most of my observations are related to Sony TV's. I still don't think most people can tell at a normal viewing distance with chroma upsmapling differences and which methods different devices or TVs use (unless pixel peeping and using test patterns). To be clear, I agree with you that Panasonic is the best I'm just less on the "omg night and day, everyone should totally spend $900 instead of $300"

100% agree. That’s why I rend to recommend the 820 for most people. The 9000 only makes sense if you want the better build/better drive and needing the 2ch analog out. Or morons like me who use it as a CD player and love the THX logo on the faceplate.

[Blu Balls]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

100% agree. That’s why I rend to recommend the 820 for most people. The 9000 only makes sense if you want the better build/better drive and needing the 2ch analog out. Or morons like me who use it as a CD player and love the THX logo on the faceplate.

Thanks for all the information everyone! The 9000 is way too expensive for me. Honestly, I would have to wait for the 820 to go on sale considering that it currently sells for twice as much as the Sony.

[manwithnoname64]

Originally Posted by Blu Balls

Thanks for all the information everyone! The 9000 is way too expensive for me. Honestly, I would have to wait for the 820 to go on sale considering that it currently sells for twice as much as the Sony.

Amazon is selling the 820 for $400 vs the $250 I’m seeing for the Sony. That’s less than double at the moment.

[sfmarine]

Originally Posted by Blu Balls

Sony X800 owner here. I'm looking to upgrade to a player with Dolby Vision, and I was wondering if the Panasonic UB820K is a substantial upgrade over the Sony X800M2.
The Panny isn't currently on sale, but the Sony is going for $250. Would I be wise to wait it out for a possible player announcement at CES or choose between one of these two players? I was going to wait for a PS5, but I have heard that the 4K player isn't quite up to snuff in terms of picture quality.

The PS5 also will not do DV. Microsoft has a 2-year agreement with Dolby but has since walked that back. I would not use a PS5 as a main 4K player anyway, so steer clear of that.

The 820 is on sale as previously mentioned. I do not see it going under $400 anytime soon and there is no successor in the works. Probably the best bang for your buck right now with the optimizer. Aside from the balanced XLR connections, and rigid construction, the 9000 is pretty much identical when it comes to picture quality. I have yet to demo a 9000 in person but I am told it is super quiet. The 820 is one of the clunkiest/loudest players I have ever owned, but so far it has not given me any playback issues.

[Blu Balls]

Originally Posted by manwithnoname64

Amazon is selling the 820 for $400 vs the $250 I’m seeing for the Sony. That’s less than double at the moment.

Sorry, I didn’t check Amazon. I guess I could get Best Buy to price match as I go out of my way to not shop at Amazon.

[Geoff D]

Yeah, not to be Contrary Clive but of my three UHD players the 820 has been the most reliable with read-related issues (the DV problems were a different story and intrinsic to both the 820 and 9000 before the latest firmware update). Not that they all had problems and the 820 is the least of those, I mean it's been virtually flawless for read errors while the OPPO gave me a fair bit of grief on triple layer discs before I had the drive swapped out and the Sony X800 has been a little flaky, glitching up during Rear Window.

Not surprised that the 9000 has been so solid for you, but for a thousand clams it'd better be!