Panasonic UB820/UB9000 4K UHD Blu-ray player

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by rprice54

I don’t have that option.

From your pictures it looks like everything is setup properly. Not sure why it is auto switching to your HDR picture preset, but shouldn't make any difference if it is as long as you don't have the HDR2084 gamma selected and use a 2.4 gamma.

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by Erod

Wow, that is a lot of moving parts.

With a Vertex and Chad B's HDR curves, my rs620 has an active iris and a beautiful picture.

So I should turn off HDR on the projector, turn off Chad B's curves, send SDR to the projector and the player is going to tone map its way to a better picture? Then I have to adjust it from film to film?

If I had a rs600 and the gamma D issue, I would be more interested. But it seems like I have a better setup right now with my ub900/rs620 and Chad's curves.

With the 820 you wouldn't need the Vertex and the player would be adjusting the tone map on the fly to each movie as opposed to your single (or even 2-3) tone maps that Chad made for you. The only reason you'd need to adjust anything is if you wanted to fine tune the overall brightness on a movie, but this would probably be very rare.

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by rprice54

One more question- I went back through all your recent posts and wanted to double check which slider you are talking about- dynamic range or brightness? If my PJ is 120 nits I want to turn that setting down a bit, correct?

Dynamic range, you shouldn't have to touch the brightness one.

With 120 nits you are looking at a multiplier of around 500-600. The default is 350 for the slider, so you want to turn it DOWN. Again, middle is 350 and all the way up is 100, so each change in the slider is approximately 20 nits. So go down to rougly 500 (7-8 clicks) and that should be a good starting point.

Remember, tone mapping is always a trade off. When using the slider the brighter the image you make (lower multiplier) the less overall dynamic range you have. The darker the image you select (higher multiplier) the more overall dynamic range you'll have. I think a range between 4 and 6x works best with most material, which is why I recommend people start around 5x. But some people want a brighter image and some people like more contrast, so tailor to your taste. There really isn't a "wrong" selection.

[rprice54]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

Dynamic range, you shouldn't have to touch the brightness one.

With 120 nits you are looking at a multiplier of around 500-600. The default is 350 for the slider, so you want to turn it DOWN. Again, middle is 350 and all the way up is 100, so each change in the slider is approximately 20 nits. So go down to rougly 500 (7-8 clicks) and that should be a good starting point.

Remember, tone mapping is always a trade off. When using the slider the brighter the image you make (lower multiplier) the less overall dynamic range you have. The darker the image you select (higher multiplier) the more overall dynamic range you'll have. I think a range between 4 and 6x works best with most material, which is why I recommend people start around 5x. But some people want a brighter image and some people like more contrast, so tailor to your taste. There really isn't a "wrong" selection.

Awesome. Thanks for being patient with us as we figure this out. I like my contrast and blacks, that’s why I bought the JVC in the first place. I was thinking I would turn it down as dim as I could take it then up a notch or two. It’s nive that we can fine tune it.

I was happy with my Arve curve but still at times it was just a hair too dark. This may hit that sweet spot.

[Kris Deering]

Going lower with the dynamic range slider does not improve or change the overall black level, so you are not affecting the that. All you are doing is changing how much range the tone map has to work with.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

If not a modified player, Panasonic messed up.

Originally Posted by fistymusic

Next firmware update, Panasonic will fix that so it won't work.

Not really, the 'stop, menu' trick has been a cheeky workaround on Panasonic's Uniphier-enabled players for years.

[brazensol]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

Going lower with the dynamic range slider does not improve or change the overall black level, so you are not affecting the that. All you are doing is changing how much range the tone map has to work with.

I have the same projector as rprice54 (RS-540) but if I remember correctly his screen has a 1.3 gain (Glacier White) whereas mine is a 0.8 (white over black spandex). Would this gain difference require different settings on the DP-820?

[rprice54]

Originally Posted by brazensol

I have the same projector as rprice54 (RS-540) but if I remember correctly his screen has a 1.3 gain (Glacier White) whereas mine is a 0.8 (white over black spandex). Would this gain difference require different settings on the DP-820?

I switched to a new screen when I went 4k. The glacier white had visible texture. I went with flexi-white, 1.1 gain supposedly.

[rprice54]

Okay, SDR2020 vs Javs. I focused on dark scenes because that's where the beef is for most PJ owners. I haven't looked at blown out highlights. Honestly I'm not as concerned about the split second lightning bolt as much as watching an entire movie thinking it's too dim.

On my setup this is a RS540, low lamp, -5 iris, clear black low, everything else off. Calibrated gamma with autocal and spyder 5. Javs labeled photos are his 1200nit curve, bbo set to 68 per his instructions. The SDR photos are gamma 2.4, on the 820 I set the dynamic range to -6 which is very similar to Javs curves on my setup. I think this ultimately shows you can get really close to the curves with the SDR2020 settings. I'm not sure if either one is clearly better than the other. I do like that I can easily adjust the dynamic range slider on the fly to brighten or darken the image. If I need more brightness I just tick the slider up a bit. Zero is too washed out. -3 looks good as well. I may try the slider with some test patterns to see if I can do better. I haven't changed any of the black or white or brightness adjustments on the 820, so I probably could dial this in even more.

[brazensol]

They do both look really good and am getting excited for my 820 to show up! Where do you have your projector iris set to? Also, your pics are on low bulb?

[rprice54]

second paragraph. low bulb. iris at -5.

[madfloyd]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

Dynamic range, you shouldn't have to touch the brightness one.

With 120 nits you are looking at a multiplier of around 500-600. The default is 350 for the slider, so you want to turn it DOWN. Again, middle is 350 and all the way up is 100, so each change in the slider is approximately 20 nits. So go down to rougly 500 (7-8 clicks) and that should be a good starting point.

Remember, tone mapping is always a trade off. When using the slider the brighter the image you make (lower multiplier) the less overall dynamic range you have. The darker the image you select (higher multiplier) the more overall dynamic range you'll have. I think a range between 4 and 6x works best with most material, which is why I recommend people start around 5x. But some people want a brighter image and some people like more contrast, so tailor to your taste. There really isn't a "wrong" selection.

I'm confused, the dynamic range slider defaults to 0, not 350 and you can either go negative or positive in steps of 1... what am I missing?

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by rprice54

Okay, SDR2020 vs Javs. I focused on dark scenes because that's where the beef is for most PJ owners. I haven't looked at blown out highlights. Honestly I'm not as concerned about the split second lightning bolt as much as watching an entire movie thinking it's too dim.

On my setup this is a RS540, low lamp, -5 iris, clear black low, everything else off. Calibrated gamma with autocal and spyder 5. Javs labeled photos are his 1200nit curve, bbo set to 68 per his instructions. The SDR photos are gamma 2.4, on the 820 I set the dynamic range to -6 which is very similar to Javs curves on my setup. I think this ultimately shows you can get really close to the curves with the SDR2020 settings. I'm not sure if either one is clearly better than the other. I do like that I can easily adjust the dynamic range slider on the fly to brighten or darken the image. If I need more brightness I just tick the slider up a bit. Zero is too washed out. -3 looks good as well. I may try the slider with some test patterns to see if I can do better. I haven't changed any of the black or white or brightness adjustments on the 820, so I probably could dial this in even more.

This is not really the kind of test you want to do. Javs' curve are based on 1200 nit material. This title is a 1000 nit title, so the difference between Javs curve and the 1000 nit curve Panny did is probably too small to tell. BUT, you have to remember that Javs did the curve to 1200 but that only works well with 1200 material. Try something that is 200 or 400 nits or something that is 2000 or even 4000. That is where you'll see Panasonic's dynamic tone map work better because it does a different curve for each one. Look at something like Goodfellas, Blade Runner 2049, Dunkirk, Magnificent 7, Batman vs Superman, Mad Max. Movies that are 1000 nit MaxCLL like Disney and Fox titles will all look essentially the same as Javs 1200 nit curve, except the Panny will allow you to fine tune overall brightness on the fly. But the differences may stand out more on other titles.

Plus no more fooling around with LAN cables and trying to figure out how to load curves and play with settings. This is about as plug and play as you can ask for.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by rprice54

I haven't looked at blown out highlights.

IMO, this is potentially where the biggest difference lies between curves vs 820, but even then, it will be a title by title or scene by scene situation. Most of the time, the two methods will/should look similar, but some of the specular highlights will be interesting.

In regards to near black and shadow detail, I've been very happy with my Chad B custom curves.

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by madfloyd

I'm confused, the dynamic range slider defaults to 0, not 350 and you can either go negative or positive in steps of 1... what am I missing?

0 = 350 nits
+12 = 100 nits

[curlyjive]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

Going lower with the dynamic range slider does not improve or change the overall black level, so you are not affecting the that. All you are doing is changing how much range the tone map has to work with.

Just to check my logic, if I am getting 12FtL thats about 40 nits, so x5 is 200 nits. so I should be adjusting up a few clicks. Make sense?

I have found it really varies by title. Some titles look pretty good at 0 or +1, others benefit from +3/+4. Others will look too washed out at anything over +2, and others just look better on blu ray period.

[madfloyd]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

0 = 350 nits
+12 = 100 nits

Thanks, Kris. So if I have 100 nits, then using a multiplier of 5 (which means 500), I'd have to go negative on the dynamic range slider by a few clicks.

That seems dark...

[panasonicst60]

I noticed that on some movies switching the HDR Optimizer on/off, I see no differences. Yet in others I do. I have the c8 and have it set to OLED in the menu. Is it true that movies mastered to 1000 nits with OLED selected, no tone mapping is added even with hdr optimizer turn on?

[COACH10810]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

0 = 350 nits
+12 = 100 nits

Thanks Kris!

This was something I wanted to ask....but figured I had asked you enough questions.

Based on what I have tried, I like it set at 0 or +1.

I am going to try some of those recommended titles you mentioned a few posts back tonight or tomorrow.

Would Patriot's Day fall into that category? The last time I viewed this one was before I had any sort of updated curves.

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by madfloyd

Thanks, Kris. So if I have 100 nits, then using a multiplier of 5 (which means 500), I'd have to go negative on the dynamic range slider by a few clicks.

That seems dark...

I don't see any reason at all for you to use the 820 tone mapping, your Radiance Pro does the best job of any solution I've seen. But if you are setup properly and truly have 100 nits, -5 should not be dark at all unless you are used to looking at something that is REALLY bright with no dynamic range. I setup a 4500 and a 885 this last week with that same multiplier using a Radiance Pro and everyone was floored with the results. Try a 4x multiplier if you really like a brighter image, but at some point you're just killing your image range.