Panasonic UB820/UB9000 4K UHD Blu-ray player

[Geoff D]

UHD Blu-ray players only support HDMI 2.0 AFAIK and that tops out at 18 Gb/s, so as 4K60 4:4:4 @ 10-bit and 12-bit exceed that rating then you're never gonna get that output when playing a 4K60 disc anyway, even with a suitably endowed TV. (You could squeeze out 4K60 8-bit 4:4:4, but is not recommended because of the reduction in native bit depth.)

Why one would even need to is another matter entirely, certain things shouldn't be blindly used just because "a TV supports it". The content is encoded to disc as 10-bit 4:2:0, anything more than that with HDR10 is just upsampled bits which, if done completely, should neither enhance or detract from the picture, but is sending a lot more data to the TV to process regardless (which in the early days caused more problems than it solved, TVs were choking on the constant 12-bit output of the UB900 player which is why Pannysonic added a 10-bit priority mode in a firmware update, that setting wasn't there to begin with).

I'm fine with leaving it on 12-bit 4:2:2.

[I5o]

Originally Posted by SS-3

Any suggestions where to get a UB9000 disc drive? I was thinking Ebay but I get concerned about cheap or counterfeit electronic items there.

Gidday SS-3, I got mine via a parts store that deals with Panasonic parts in Oztralia. But if you are based in America then buy it via a reliable Panasonic store and it may have an Ebay store but you will have to search that out and ask for a UB9000 discdrive and depends what they have in stock. I got an earlier new discdrive but still works fine with a 3 month warranty. Good luck!

[Grinningcat_o3]

I have a general question.

I have been noticing as of late that every disc I play in my Panasonic UB820 - I somewhat commonly notice some weird abberations during camera movement and/or subject movement. Usually around the border of the subject and the foreground/background element. It's hard for me to tell if this is just a problem with the overall 4K format, or if it's a disc issue, or it's a player issue. Does anyone have any idea what I'm talking about and have any ideas for a potential solve, etc?

Thank you!

[Geoff D]

You've double-checked the motionflow settings on the TV first, yes?

[Oscarilbo]

Hi guys… well I’m having an issue with my Hisense C1 (global) projector, which does Dolby Vision. When I pause (or go forward or rewind) a movie in Dolby Vision in any of my 4K players (I even bought the UB820 thinking I had a faulty Sony player), black levels suddenly rise and stays there even after the pause. Here’s a video I made, you can see closely black levels on the side bars.

https://youtu.be/FvV-xdSh3lI?si=0ARmphk7f5uDiwrX

What do you think? And why would this not happen via DV streaming apps from Apple TV?

[PUsokrJosh305]

Hey! For those who have gone into the HDR Options, where do you guys owe your Dynamic Range Adjustment Slider? I have an LG C9 and use LG’s Dynamic Tone Mapping.

As I have gone through these settings, I’m realizing that having it at 0 or close to 0 seems to work the best. I’ve been bouncing around from -2, -1, and 0 just because I don’t want it too much but at the same moment I don’t want to be missing out on accurate looking picture, especially since as you go up with the slider, it gives better range, including colors!

I guess my real question is, how do you determine what is too much and what is just right in terms of those settings?

[Hedrox]

I just leave everything at 0, I never find myself thinking "this looks a bit too dim/blown out/washed out, maybe I should tweak it a little bit". Just accept that's how it looks.

Once you start going that path of optimizing everything in an attempt to get the most out of it, it can be hard to step back and be happy with it.

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by Hedrox

I just leave everything at 0, I never find myself thinking "this looks a bit too dim/blown out/washed out, maybe I should tweak it a little bit". Just accept that's how it looks.

Once you start going that path of optimizing everything in an attempt to get the most out of it, it can be hard to step back and be happy with it.

The problem is I can't really do that (leaving all of it at 0) with using LG's DTM. It blows everything out of proportion. But with the help of the HDR Options settings, you can bring it back down to where the picture needs to be.

I actually figured out leaving the Dynamic Range Adjustment at 0 is the best bet. I also lowered the brightness to -5 and adjusted the Tone Curve (White) to +6.

I've used various scenes from several movies to get this. I just wish I had the Spears and Muncil UHD Benchmark Disc. Then I would be able to know exactly what I am getting. Nonetheless, all of my movies look incredible! Much better than having the Dynamic Range Adjustment at -5. It drained so much color from the picture that it looked terrible!

[Oscarilbo]

Originally Posted by PUsokrJosh305

The problem is I can't really do that (leaving all of it at 0) with using LG's DTM. It blows everything out of proportion. But with the help of the HDR Options settings, you can bring it back down to where the picture needs to be.

I actually figured out leaving the Dynamic Range Adjustment at 0 is the best bet. I also lowered the brightness to -5 and adjusted the Tone Curve (White) to +6.

I've used various scenes from several movies to get this. I just wish I had the Spears and Muncil UHD Benchmark Disc. Then I would be able to know exactly what I am getting. Nonetheless, all of my movies look incredible! Much better than having the Dynamic Range Adjustment at -5. It drained so much color from the picture that it looked terrible!

Then turn the player optimizer off, and you just leave the DTM of the Tv. If the DTM is too agressive then turn that off.... you don't have to have both. Nor any of them for that matter.

[sherlockjr]

Originally Posted by Oscarilbo

Then turn the player optimizer off, and you just leave the DTM of the Tv. If the DTM is too agressive then turn that off.... you don't have to have both. Nor any of them for that matter.

I agree. I turned off Dynamic Tone Mapping on my LG C2 TV. "Dynamic" makes me rather suspicious of aggressive changes just for the sake of technology with no actual human intelligence involved in the shot by shot changes. To me the picture quality looks better without DTM, or certainly no worse.

[Oscarilbo]

Guys a question… I just bought the UB820 (had the UB420 previously), and for my tri laser projector the HDR to SDR BT2020 conversion is still the best way to achieve the best image possible.

But one thing… I remember than with my old projector, some years ago, even in the HDR - SDR conversion the HDR optimizer option was still available, and you could turn it on or off. Now the UB2020 tells me its exclusively for HDR PQ…. Am I’m missing something?

Was this changed after the newest firmware update?

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Oscarilbo

Guys a question… I just bought the UB820 (had the UB420 previously), and for my tri laser projector the HDR to SDR BT2020 conversion is still the best way to achieve the best image possible.

But one thing… I remember than with my old projector, some years ago, even in the HDR - SDR conversion the HDR optimizer option was still available, and you could turn it on or off. Now the UB2020 tells me its exclusively for HDR PQ…. Am I’m missing something?

Was this changed after the newest firmware update?

The HDR Optimizer is only available with HDR content, but there should be a dynamic range adjustment for SDR in the video options, it's similar where you trade brightness for contrast and vice versa.

[Chad Rouch]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

I assume you use the settings guide I created?

No, I hadn't. But NOW I have. Fantastic tips! Thanks!

[Oscarilbo]

Originally Posted by chip75

The HDR Optimizer is only available with HDR content, but there should be a dynamic range adjustment for SDR in the video options, it's similar where you trade brightness for contrast and vice versa.

Thank you. The thing is that if I remember correctly, you could toggle the HDR Optmizer between ON and OFF, even in SDR 2020. But now with my new UB820 I cannot.

It didn’t do much really, but I’m curious what’s change and why?

[Oscarilbo]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

If you are using the SDR2020 mode of the UB820 with your projector, it defaults to a 1000 nit based tone map. If you turn HDR Optimizer to ON, it changes the tone map based on the MaxCLL or MaxDML (if MaxCLL if not provided). If you leave the dynamic range slider to 0, it is assuming a 350 nit display, so think of this as your multiplier. I personally recommend a multiplier of between 4 and 6 for projector use, so if you know your peak white in nits, times it by that number and adjust the slider. The brightest setting in the slider is for 100 nits, so you'll have to figure out where you are as I'm not sure what each tick represents.

More often than not I would recommend you leave the Optimizer ON. This should provide the best results for most titles. The one exception that is EASY to see is Sicario as it reports a MaxCLL of 0 and MaxDML of 4000. If the tone map is done to 4000 it looks very dingy. Since the true MaxCLL is 1200, the default 1000 nit map is the better compromise. You can see the DRASTIC difference in the opening shot in the desert looking at the neighborhood and mountains in the background if you toggle between Off and On in the Optimizer.

Here’s an old quote from Kris Deering where he recommended turning the HDR optimizer ON in SDR BT2020 mode. I kno it could be kept on, but nowadays the player tells me that’s only for strict HDR content

[Telemachus]

The HDR Optimizer on the Panny is from 2018, it has not been updated to my knowledge. Seriously, turn it off, especially if you are using an OLED made in the last few years, you don't need it, even if you think you need it you don't, it's in your head. Definitely turn off "Dynamic" tone mapping on your screen unless you like to watch movies with all the curtains open at 2pm or something.

[Oscarilbo]

Well… how bout that… I didn’t know that when you converted HDR to SDR with the UB820, you just had the option to have Dolby Vision ON and have that Dolby Vision metadata converted to SDR… that’s why when Dolby Vision is ON and you have HDR to SDR BT2020 conversion, the HDR OPTIMIZER is not available…but if you have Dolby Vision OFF then HDR optimizer is available in SDR BT2020…. just as with HDR BT2020

Here are some pics of what the UB820 is reporting while being in SDR BT2020 and having Dolby Vision ON. And OMG it looks amazing on my tri laser projector…

https://imgur.com/a/3E4KogF

You can see that the player is indeed reporting Dolby Vision being output as SDR 2020, and in fact it looks noticeable better than HDR10 being converted to SDR2020
Is this really how it is?

I’m in shock because I don’t remember this being possible a while ago.

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by Hedrox

I just leave everything at 0, I never find myself thinking "this looks a bit too dim/blown out/washed out, maybe I should tweak it a little bit". Just accept that's how it looks.

Once you start going that path of optimizing everything in an attempt to get the most out of it, it can be hard to step back and be happy with it.

Going back to this, I will admit I have come to a conclusion about 1 of the settings in the HDR Options Menu:

The Dynamic Range Adjustment Setting should be set to 0 for those who have TV sets that can handle the full HDR10 range. I made the mistake of lowering it all this time, which de-saturates the picture and makes it darker.

This is one of the reasons why I kept asking why I saw a difference between HDR10 saturation and DV saturation. With the setting at 0, I now see the full saturation of colors that I should be.

But the other settings can be adjusted to better suit their TV.

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by Oscarilbo

Then turn the player optimizer off, and you just leave the DTM of the Tv. If the DTM is too agressive then turn that off.... you don't have to have both. Nor any of them for that matter.

I've already done those suggestions, none of which are satisfactory.

Dynamic Tone Mapping alone, especially on an LG OLED, isn't great and is aggressive. But combining it with a Panasonic 4K Player that has the Optimizer/HDR Options menu and adjusting the settings accordingly, it brings the aggressiveness down to the point where it almost matches up with how DV is.

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by sherlockjr

I agree. I turned off Dynamic Tone Mapping on my LG C2 TV. "Dynamic" makes me rather suspicious of aggressive changes just for the sake of technology with no actual human intelligence involved in the shot by shot changes. To me the picture quality looks better without DTM, or certainly no worse.

I encourage you to Turn DTM "On" your C2, then go into the HDR Options Menu (long press the HDR Button) on your Panasonic Player and bring the brightness seting down and bring up the Tone Curve (White) and see what you think. You will be amazed how good the picture quality will be.

Originally Posted by Telemachus

The HDR Optimizer on the Panny is from 2018, it has not been updated to my knowledge. Seriously, turn it off, especially if you are using an OLED made in the last few years, you don't need it, even if you think you need it you don't, it's in your head. Definitely turn off "Dynamic" tone mapping on your screen unless you like to watch movies with all the curtains open at 2pm or something.

I would say if you have an LG OLED that is a G series from the last couple of years, then yes I would turn the Optimizer "Off" but if you have a C series that is the C3 and below, I would still use it, just on "Super Luminance" to take care of the upper range of highlights that LG OLEDs can't tone map right.

And as you know, I disagree with your last statement. Although, I agree that Dynamic Tone Mapping alone is bad, but with the help of changing the brightness and Tone Curve "White" settings in the HDR Options of a Panasonic 4K Player with the Optimizer would solve a lot of the issues Dynamic Tone Mapping has.

Again, ask yourself if Dynamic Tone Mapping is bad, then why did Sony keep it "On" with their older OLEDs, like from 2020 or so? And they beat out LG OLEDs in the category of punchier highlights.

It's all because of Dynamic Tone Mapping!