Panasonic UB820/UB9000 4K UHD Blu-ray player

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by Mobe1969

Does anyone know if these have the subtitle luminance control, like the UB900 has?

Originally Posted by panasonicst60

Yes diable the TV's tone mapping. The player does a better (more accurate) tone mapping when compared to lg's. The tone mapping on the LG tends to boost image brightness too much. With the Panasonic you can also customize it to your own liking. For example you can boost the shadow details while preserving everything else. As I find hdr10 tends to be on the darker side when compared to Dolby vision.

Originally Posted by sapiendut

Definitely. I just still don’t know how to set subtitle luminance to 50% as a default.

Originally Posted by evoll

How do you disable the TV's tone mapping? Do you just put the HDR optimizer to on?

Originally Posted by DJR662

Yeah, and you can change the luminace yourself. Comes in handy with some (dark) movies on UHD which have too bright subtitles such as John Wick 2 (at least they are too bright to my eyes on the UK release).

Originally Posted by idlebrain

Subtitle luminance and position has to adjust each time.No default setting exists.

It's comments like these that have me concerned about the Panasonics' "ease of use"...

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

It's comments like these that have me concerned about the Panasonics' "ease of use"...

Unfortunately nothing that is the best these days is the easiest to use. Try giving the best cell phone in the world to an 80 year old who's never had a cell phone. The best vehicles are are no longer simple to use either, there's so many options and features.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by ray0414

Unfortunately nothing that is the best these days is the easiest to use. Try giving the best cell phone in the world to an 80 year old who's never had a cell phone. The best vehicles are are no longer simple to use either, there's so many options and features.

I get that -- but EVERYONE here was making it seem like these players are COMPLETELY plug and play with no worries of any kind for a novice new to the format with regard to setup. Of course, I'll have to eventually BUY one because there's no choice, but I'm merely expressing -- as did another member here -- my concern for being able to get a player like the Panasonic up and running in the most ideal way based on the display I own and what the player will be connected to.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

All this complex operation rhetoric is one of the things keeping me away from the UB820, AKORIS; I don't know if all UHD disc players are like this, but it seems too daunting just to get a disc up and running correctly (and ensuring the settings are correct for your particular display).

This player is not that hard to use, but can require some experimentation.

Here is what I recommend.

STEP 1
Select display - you want to select the display option that best fits your panel. This selection is irrelevant if you go with Step 2 - B (SDR/2020)

STEP 2
I don't know much about your display, but you have two main options by which to start with the 820. You will have to try both. If you had a projector, B would be the easy choice.

A) Output HDR (with the HDR Optimizer ON or OFF - I suggest ON)

OR

B) Output SDR/2020 (with the HDR Optimizer ON or OFF - I suggest ON)


STEP 3
There is a slider (Dynamic Range adjustment - called "conversion" if using SDR/2020) which controls the overall brightness of the image. The more you turn it up, the more it increases the brightness of the image, but you get more clipping and lose highlights. The more you turn it down, the dimmer the image becomes but you get less clipping and resolve more highlights.

At the end of the day, you're going to have to trust your eye on what is preferable but starting at default is fine. You might even decide to turn it up a couple of clicks or down depending on a movie. However, in my case even with a my projector, I rarely find the need to do that. It's pretty much now 'set and forget'. But getting started might require a little fiddling.


STEP 4 - OPTIONAL
There are other settings such as the white and black tonal controls for the SDR/2020 option, but I wouldn't worry about those initially. Leave them at default to start if you use SDR/2020. On my projector, I've used the white tonal with SDR/2020 to taper down overly bright peak highlights and it's helped a lot, but start with the basics I outlined first. I would also recommend all of the other picture settings at default especially if your display is reasonably calibrated.

That is all there is to it.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

I get that -- but EVERYONE here was making it seem like these players are COMPLETELY plug and play with no worries of any kind for a novice new to the format with regard to setup. Of course, I'll have to eventually BUY one because there's no choice, but I'm merely expressing -- as did another member here -- my concern for being able to get a player like the Panasonic up and running in the most ideal way based on the display I own and what the player will be connected to.

The Panasonic players are fairly straightforward, yes, they do have a myriad of options, but if you're outputting Blu-rays and UHD Blu-rays with them you can pretty much leave them alone.

Here's an idea of some of the options with the Panasonic:

* Display
* Picture Type
* Optimum HDR Adjustment
* Luminance Adjustment
* Colour Adjustment
* Sharpness Adjustment
* Noise Reduction
* Bandwidth Limitation
* Progressive
* Reset to Default Picture Settings
* Video Format
* 4K(50p/60p) Output
* 24p Output
* HDMI(VIDEO) Output Mode
* HDMI(AUDIO) Output Mode
* Dolby Vision Setting
* HDR10+ Setting
* Advanced Settings
* Colour Mode
* Deep Colour Output
* HDR/Colour Gamut Output
* SDR/HDR Conv. (Network Service)
* HLG/PQ Conversion
* HDR TV Type
* HDCP Output Setting
* Contents Type Flag
* 7.1ch Audio Reformatting

A lot of those can be left to Auto. Personally I'd select HDR TV Type pick the mid-range option and turn on the Optimum HDR Adjustment option. Then you can do a bit of fine-tuning to suit your tastes.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

This player is a not that hard to use, but can require some experimentation.

Here is what I recommend.


STEP 1
I don't know much about your display, but you have two main options by which to start with the 820. You will have to try both. If you had a projector, B would be the easy choice.

A) Output HDR (with the HDR Optimizer ON or OFF - I suggest ON)

OR

B) Output SDR/2020 (with the HDR Optimizer ON or OFF - I suggest ON)


STEP 2
There is a slider (Dynamic Range adjustment - called "conversion" if using SDDR/2020) which controls the overall brightness of the image. The more you turn it up, the more it increases the brightness of the image, but you get more clipping and lose highlights. The more you turn it down, the dimmer the image becomes but you get less clipping and resolve more highlights.

At the end of the day, you're going to have to trust your eye on what is preferable but starting at default is fine. You might even decide to turn it up a couple of clicks or down depending on a movie. However, in my case even a my projector, I rarely find the need to do that. It's pretty much now 'set and forget'. But getting started might require a little fiddling.


STEP 3 - OPTIONAL
There are other settings such as the white and black tonal controls for SDR/2020, but I wouldn't worry about those initially. Leave them at default. On my projector, I've used the white tonal with SDR/2020 to taper down peak highlights and it's helped a lot, but start with the basics I outlined first. I would also recommend all of the other picture settings at default especially if you display is reasonably calibrated.

That is all there is to it.

Thank you very much, HH; this is most appreciated. It looks like I'll be getting the 820, so I'm going to need this kind of setup assistance.

When you say "especially if your display is reasonably calibrated," I believe my display goes into an automatic HDR mode when it senses an HDR feed, and there are certain parameters that are adjusted dynamically to conform to this -- I believe Contrast Enhancer is engaged, Local Dimming is set to High and Backlight is maxed out. Would anything else need to be "calibrated" in this mode? I plan on calibrating the SDR portion of the display with some setup discs when I get a new player, so that DVD and Blu-ray playback is optimized...but what do I do about the HDR portion of the menus?

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by chip75

The Panasonic players are fairly straightforward, yes, they do have a myriad of options, but if you're outputting Blu-rays and UHD Blu-rays with them you can pretty much leave them alone.

Here's an idea of some of the options with the Panasonic:

* Display
* Picture Type
* Optimum HDR Adjustment
* Luminance Adjustment
* Colour Adjustment
* Sharpness Adjustment
* Noise Reduction
* Bandwidth Limitation
* Progressive
* Reset to Default Picture Settings
* Video Format
* 4K(50p/60p) Output
* 24p Output
* HDMI(VIDEO) Output Mode
* HDMI(AUDIO) Output Mode
* Dolby Vision Setting
* HDR10+ Setting
* Advanced Settings
* Colour Mode
* Deep Colour Output
* HDR/Colour Gamut Output
* SDR/HDR Conv. (Network Service)
* HLG/PQ Conversion
* HDR TV Type
* HDCP Output Setting
* Contents Type Flag
* 7.1ch Audio Reformatting

A lot of those can be left to Auto. Personally I'd select HDR TV Type pick the mid-range option and turn on the Optimum HDR Adjustment option. Then you can do a bit of fine-tuning to suit your tastes.

That does indeed seem daunting; however, I would like to play with the Noise Reduction controls, as I have always preferred a bit of noise smoothing with every setup I've run.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

Thank you very much, HH; this is most appreciated. It looks like I'll be getting the 820, so I'm going to need this kind of setup assistance.

When you say "especially if your display is reasonably calibrated," I believe my display goes into an automatic HDR mode when it senses an HDR feed, and there are certain parameters that are adjusted dynamically to conform to this -- I believe Contrast Enhancer is engaged, Local Dimming is set to High and Backlight is maxed out. Would anything else need to be "calibrated" in this mode? I plan on calibrating the SDR portion of the display with some setup discs when I get a new player, so that DVD and Blu-ray playback is optimized...but what do I do about the HDR portion of the menus?

HDR needs calibrating like SDR, but depending on your display some of the options will be disabled. But you need a HDR signal and patterns to calibrate HDR.

It's worth noting that there is some leeway with calibration as there's always a trade-off between brightness and detail due to tone-mapping, so even though you'd want to follow the PQ curve accurately, you might want to suit your needs more than suiting accuracy.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

Thank you very much, HH; this is most appreciated. It looks like I'll be getting the 820, so I'm going to need this kind of setup assistance.

When you say "especially if your display is reasonably calibrated," I believe my display goes into an automatic HDR mode when it senses an HDR feed, and there are certain parameters that are adjusted dynamically to conform to this -- I believe Contrast Enhancer is engaged, Local Dimming is set to High and Backlight is maxed out. Would anything else need to be "calibrated" in this mode? I plan on calibrating the SDR portion of the display with some setup discs when I get a new player, so that DVD and Blu-ray playback is optimized...but what do I do about the HDR portion of the menus?

No problem, please see some edits I just made.

Unfortunately, I cannot speak of your display, but I strongly recommend a pro calibrator like Chad B who can optimize all aspects of the display including both color gamuts (709 and 2020), getting to 6500K greyscale, gamma, etc. with top of the line meters. I've never been a fan of most automated display controls like contrast enhancer, etc. However, more nits are better for HDR so try to get as much light output as you can from your display. If not using a calibrator, use the calibration discs as much as you can. Perhaps there are also recommended "out of the box" settings for your display that comes closest to rec 709 and 2020.

If you are using the SDR 2020 output of the player, you do want a calibrated 2.4 gamma from your display (or even a bt1886 probably comes close enough). Also remember you want to use the 2020 color profile (or whatever it is called). For standard Blu-ray/HD, you want 709.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by chip75

HDR needs calibrating like SDR, but depending on your display some of the options will be disabled. But you need a HDR signal and patterns to calibrate HDR.

What I was worried about...

It's worth noting that there is some leeway with calibration as there's always a trade-off between brightness and detail due to tone-mapping, so even though you'd want to follow the PQ curve accurately, you might want to suit your needs more than suiting accuracy.

I've read that quite a few UHD TV owners simply leave their displays in the default HDR modes without tweaking any controls; is this advised?

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

No problem, please see some edits I just made.

Unfortunately, I cannot speak of your display, but I strongly recommend a pro calibrator like Chad B who can optimize all aspects of the display including both color gamuts (709 and 2020), getting to 6500K greyscale, gamma, etc. with top of the line meters. I've never been a fan of most automated display controls like contrast enhancer, etc. However, more nits are better for HDR so try to get as much light output as you can from your display. If not using a calibrator, use the calibration discs as much as you can. Perhaps there are also recommended "out of the box" settings for your display that comes closest to rec 709 and 2020.

If you are using the SDR 2020 output of the player, you do want a calibrated 2.4 gamma from your display (or even a bt1886 probably comes close enough). Also remember you want to use the 2020 color profile (or whatever it is called). For standard Blu-ray/HD, you want 709.

Are there any setup discs currently available for HDR settings?

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

Are there any setup discs currently available for HDR settings?

There are no HDR calibration discs at this time (which is hard to believe). However, you can download certain patterns (like Masciola)

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

There are no HDR calibration discs at this time (which is hard to believe). However, you can download certain patterns (like Masciola)

I see.

I'm beginning to rethink my foray into Ultra High Definition; between separate setup parameters for Standard Dynamic Range and High Dynamic Range on displays and the uber-confusing settings in the players -- not to mention the various HDR platform standards a la Dolby Vision, HDR10, etc. -- it seems more nerve-wracking than it's possibly worth.

Probably should have "stuck" with Blu-ray, though there are no 1080p sets really being made anymore (of course, 1080p could still be viewed on a 2160 display, but I'm just sayin'...).

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

Are there any setup discs currently available for HDR settings?

See https://www.netflix.com/title/80018499

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

See https://www.netflix.com/title/80018499

Yeah...okay...I'm going to understand how to use those when I don't really grasp how the settings on these new UHD players work...

Appreciate it anyway.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

I see.

I'm beginning to rethink my foray into Ultra High Definition; between separate setup parameters for Standard Dynamic Range and High Dynamic Range on displays and the uber-confusing settings in the players -- not to mention the various HDR platform standards a la Dolby Vision, HDR10, etc. -- it seems more nerve-wracking than it's possibly worth.

Probably should have "stuck" with Blu-ray, though there are no 1080p sets really being made anymore (of course, 1080p could still be viewed on a 2160 display, but I'm just sayin'...).

HDR and UHD is definitely a completely different animal. It does require some "going with the flow" as I was such a strong proponent of standardization and spec with rec 709/HD, but it's the world they've now given us. I think at the end of the day it's well worth it and is an improvement over HD, but there are new things to understand initially. I haven't watched every UHD BD out there, but each one I have watched is an improvement over the BD version.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by HeavyHitter

HDR and UHD is definitely a completely different animal. It does require some "going with the flow" as I was such a strong proponent of standardization and spec with rec 709/HD, but it's the world they've now given us. I think at the end of the day it's well worth it and is an improvement over HD, but there are new things to understand initially. I haven't watched every UHD BD out there, but each one I have watched is an improvement over the BD version.

All good points; I just wish I knew for sure, once I get a UHD player and have it up and running, connected to my display, that I WAS actually getting the 2160 resolution from these discs and that my setup was optimized for the best, brightest playback. As it stands, I'm going to be relying on a simple plug-and-play routine initially, so it will be a MIRACLE if I get things set up correctly in order to take advantage of my display's HDR10 protocol and the elements on the 4K discs.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

I see.

I'm beginning to rethink my foray into Ultra High Definition; between separate setup parameters for Standard Dynamic Range and High Dynamic Range on displays and the uber-confusing settings in the players -- not to mention the various HDR platform standards a la Dolby Vision, HDR10, etc. -- it seems more nerve-wracking than it's possibly worth.

Probably should have "stuck" with Blu-ray, though there are no 1080p sets really being made anymore (of course, 1080p could still be viewed on a 2160 display, but I'm just sayin'...).

I am now tossing hundreds of DVD’s to charity. The stores are now half BD’S half 4K UHD BD’s. While you’ll be safe with HD physical media, 4K UHD BD’s are now becoming more mainstream. This is something to consider.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by IntelliVolume

All good points; I just wish I knew for sure, once I get a UHD player and have it up and running, connected to my display, that I WAS actually getting the 2160 resolution from these discs and that my setup was optimized for the best, brightest playback. As it stands, I'm going to be relying on a simple plug-and-play routine initially, so it will be a MIRACLE if I get things set up correctly in order to take advantage of my display's HDR10 protocol and the elements on the 4K discs.

I would seriously consider Chad B coming out just once. He will optimize your entire system A-Z. It will be well worth the money.

[IntelliVolume]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

I am now tossing hundreds of DVD’s to charity. The stores are now half BD’S half 4K UHD BD’s. While you’ll be safe with HD physical media, 4K UHD BD’s are now becoming more mainstream. This is something to consider.

How does that help me grasp how the settings and controls work in the display and player?