2014 Value Electronics Shootout.

[mblackm2]

Thanks to all who have given first hand feedback on the event.

From all the comments and even having the F8500 tie the LG OLED for top display, why is the Samsung OLED worse than those 2? I know the calibrators picked the Samsung as their favorite but everyone else was putting it behind the LG and/or F8500.

What made the LG OLED beat out the Samsung OLED for those who had an opportunity to attend the shootout?

[punisher]

Originally Posted by mblackm2

Thanks to all who have given first hand feedback on the event.

From all the comments and even having the F8500 tie the LG OLED for top display, why is the Samsung OLED worse than those 2? I know the calibrators picked the Samsung as their favorite but everyone else was putting it behind the LG and/or F8500.

What made the LG OLED beat out the Samsung OLED for those who had an opportunity to attend the shootout?

I thought the samsung OLED had an orange tint..others did as well..also..on white lettering on a black screen and test patterns..there was red line along the edges which I pointed out Saturday night. The LG was clean white lines as was all the other tv's except the Sammy.

[Penton-Man]

Dog, Doby, Zoet…thanks for the responses as it puts the grading system (and the results) into perspective for me.

[dobyblue]

I believe I only gave out three 10s, the LG OLED got 10s for black level and contrast ratio and the Samsung 8500 plasma got a 10 for motion resolution. Judging by the tallies more than a few people voted the same.

[Blu-Dog]

Originally Posted by dobyblue

I believe I only gave out three 10s, the LG OLED got 10s for black level and contrast ratio and the Samsung 8500 plasma got a 10 for motion resolution. Judging by the tallies more than a few people voted the same.

The motion resolution problem - was that limited to the LG?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

Kane was ranting about color space for most of his time speaking. There was no real 4K color gamut testing - trying to do anything in 4K gave the video switcher fits.

Get a Crestron.

Anyway, unlike lyris, who is a humble young whipper-snapper, Joe is an old hand in the lecture business and next time he tries to preach about color science to a room that is actually well versed in color science (like actual color scientists rather than hobbyists), it would be wise of him to learn how to properly pronounce the word he used to describe the lack of consistency among individuals in their ability to see colors as it pertains to the display of wide color gamut (BT.2020) with modern displays having narrow band primaries for he sounds like a rookie. That would at least show that he has some advanced experience regarding the concept.

Which, b.t.w. is not a new discovery by Joe but has been lectured about for years by people at, for instance Technicolor, or even the last HPA retreat last Feb. Afterwards, getting that basic pronunciation correct, it would be interesting to hear him address more advanced topics like solutions to this potential problem in color grading suites which are already being considered and studied by color scientists with actual prototypes.

Plus, as to his rant about the merits of a larger container, stakeholders in the UHD next generation video have been well aware of its advantages (and disadvantages), for instance, as revealed from way back during last October with their stances - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...yz#post8249641

But, as Richard (Paul) and I discussed in excruciating (to some) detail several months ago, there are real world impediments to this *give-em-the-biggest-container-out-there* philosophy for UHD in the home….as also cautioned by those on the Digital Cinema AdHoc group well educated as to the benefits and shortcomings of XYZ. Personally, as an idealist, I’m on record on this forum for months as tending to be in favor of a large container like XYZ, Richard is against and he has good legitimate concerns/reasons as to why not, but the bottom line is that the correct decision is not as easy and straightforward as portrayed by Joe to that audience in Scarsdale as the magic bullet of an ODT. It is more complicated than that as other factors are involved.

[Blu-Dog]

I have no idea why I can't quote Penton's posts...always comes up blank...


Anyway, I don't think we're going to get a bigger color palette for broadcast. Maybe for playback (however that donnybrook turns out). It's really for videophiles, and it they build it into the UHD/4K standard for discs or whatever, we'll get to enjoy it.


I don't think the broadcasters give a hoot, really. We're still looking at 1080i when you think about it.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

I have no idea why I can't quote Penton's posts...always comes up blank...

? Perhaps what I post goes right over the head of your viewing/posting device and the dang thing just can’t handle it? Unless you’re one of the deviants who would purposely distort my posts, report the problem in a PM to Iceman for a fix.

[Blu-Dog]

Penton-man wondered..."? Perhaps what I post goes right over the head of your viewing/posting device and the dang thing just can’t handle it? Unless you’re one of the deviants who would purposely distort my posts, report the problem in a PM to Iceman for a fix."


Look, man, the weather report is over my head. If the IRS tax forms weren't tied around my neck like a noose, they'd be over my head, too. I'll PM Iceman to see if you're holding a chunk of plutonium when you post, or whatever the problem is.


I have to hold my monitor upside down to understand half of your technical sermons anyway, I may as well try to get this tuned in.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

Look, man, the weather report is over my head.

Sorry, I forgot you get confused by acronyms, my bad. ODT stands for output device transform.

As an aside, in the current Blu-ray mastering realm, it allows one to fairly expediently go from a wider to a narrower color gamut (e.g. P3 to Rec.709 - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...p3#post8524797 ) for color grading, but even with the aid of an ODT, the filmmakers still generally book 2-3 days to fine tune the trim pass for the Rec.709 (Blu-ray) master.

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

I have to hold my monitor upside down to understand half of your technical sermons anyway...

A good non-technical sermon to live by -

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Get a Crestron.

Anyway, unlike lyris, who is a humble young whipper-snapper, Joe is an old hand in the lecture business and next time he tries to preach about color science to a room that is actually well versed in color science (like actual color scientists rather than hobbyists), it would be wise of him to learn how to properly pronounce the word he used to describe the lack of consistency among individuals in their ability to see colors as it pertains to the display of wide color gamut (BT.2020) with modern displays having narrow band primaries for he sounds like a rookie. That would at least show that he has some advanced experience regarding the concept.

Which, b.t.w. is not a new discovery by Joe but has been lectured about for years by people at, for instance Technicolor, or even the last HPA retreat last Feb. Afterwards, getting that basic pronunciation correct, it would be interesting to hear him address more advanced topics like solutions to this potential problem in color grading suites which are already being considered and studied by color scientists with actual prototypes.

Plus, as to his rant about the merits of a larger container, stakeholders in the UHD next generation video have been well aware of its advantages (and disadvantages), for instance, as revealed from way back during last October with their stances - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...yz#post8249641

But, as Richard (Paul) and I discussed in excruciating (to some) detail several months ago, there are real world impediments to this *give-em-the-biggest-container-out-there* philosophy for UHD in the home….as also cautioned by those on the Digital Cinema AdHoc group well educated as to the benefits and shortcomings of XYZ. Personally, as an idealist, I’m on record on this forum for months as tending to be in favor of a large container like XYZ, Richard is against and he has good legitimate concerns/reasons as to why not, but the bottom line is that the correct decision is not as easy and straightforward as portrayed by Joe to that audience in Scarsdale as the magic bullet of an ODT. It is more complicated than that as other factors are involved.

For Blu-Dog :

HPA = Hollywood Post Alliance, see https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...pa#post9356437
in case that particular acronym I used was also unclear.

I admit I tend to use a lot of acronyms because it is so much quicker than typing all the words out.

[AudioWarrior]

If anybody is going to do a shootout, one must do it with this! It's mandatory!

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LX4OOOA?...DQOHSLJF&psc=1

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

XYZ

Add in consideration of the technical complexity of just generating a standard that specifies the transformation of XYZ image data into a color difference signal that is suitable for chroma subsampling and compression in conjunction with a perceptually-based EOTF (such as Dolby’s solution, for instance)….. a SMPTE project first revealed last December here - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...yz#post8479235

which, as of August 2014, is still ongoing with said project being only ~ 45% complete.....should give folks an idea as to how complicated these things are, just from a technical perspective. Not even addressing the cost to consumer in regards to implementation in the home.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

I have to hold my monitor upside down to understand half of your technical sermons...

In the spirit of easier understanding, this is a graphic demonstration of thee ol’ XYZ in a 3 dimensional space…..https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...yz#post8208316 and if you don’t appreciate that short clip, then just scroll down a tad to Tanya’s unboxing.

After class….for relief, I promise a Pool Par-teeeeee

Really, no kidding.

[Blu-Dog]

Hope you're bringing Tanya to the pool party...

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Blu-Dog

Hope you're bringing Tanya to the pool party...

Sorry, no Tanya, but some of your other friends ….
http://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/...g-swim-n186446

[Blu-Dog]

I know half of those guys....

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Robert

Well, I can understand in case you didn’t happen to acknowledge Blu-ray.com through a podcast intimately associated with AVS’s social media writers as that might be considered a bit awkward but, as you being an active contributor/user of Blu-ray.com….

I sure hope you gave Blu-ray.com a shout-out when speaking to your attendees and online viewing audience during either your Sat. or Sun. shoot-out events…..if in fact you may have referred to your specific consumer forum activity in passing anytime during those presentations (which I admittedly viewed only in part on livestream).

And next year let’s see some voting on 4K material….http://www.crestron.com/features/4K_...stron.com%2F4k

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by AlaskanAVguy

the infamous VE Shootout

Well I know for a fact that errors in technical assertions and even basic pronunciations (if English is one’s first language) were made in parts of the presentations I heard on the Sat. and Sun. event livestreams, as well as obvious naivety regarding things like 4K post production and ambient lighting for HDR but, did a class action lawsuit arise out of the shortcomings of the shootout?

[David M]

as well as obvious naivety regarding things like 4K post production

Can you elaborate there? What gave you that impression?