Questions regarding Digital IMAX and IMAX DMR.

[Poya]

1. Does a regular 4K cinema projector provide better picture than Digital IMAX, which uses two 2K projectors? Especially when the DI of that film is in 2K. And what if the DI is in 4K?

2. Does DMR ruin or enhance the picture of the film? Also, does it also applies to films shot digitally, considering the point of the DMR is to reduce grain?

3. Can digitally shot films be projected on a 15/70 projector or will they look bad?

[42041]

Originally Posted by Poya

1. Does a regular 4K cinema projector provide better picture than Digital IMAX, which uses two 2K projectors? Especially when the DI of that film is in 2K. And what if the DI is in 4K?

Depends on the projector and the cinema. I've seen worse and I've seen much better.

2. Does DMR ruin or enhance the picture of the film? Also, does it also applies to films shot digitally, considering the point of the DMR is to reduce grain?

I'd say it's detrimental, I'm not fan of their "enhancements". DMR isn't used in all cases. I think Skyfall's DP insisted they don't use the processing; on the other hand I saw Gravity in digital IMAX 3d a few weeks back and it had that nasty denoise shimmering going on.

3. Can digitally shot films be projected on a 15/70 projector or will they look bad?

Yes and yes (I mean, a digitally shot film could be many things, it could be shot in 8K on a Sony F65 or something, but for most of these 2k DI shows, it's pushing the image too far).

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Poya

...considering the point of the DMR is to reduce grain?

Grain or noise reduction is only one part of the DMR process. Among other things, their mastering also tends to alter the color saturation and contrast (generally increasing it).

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by 42041

...I think Skyfall's DP insisted they don't use the processing...

You think right -
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...ll#post7966675

[MrsMiniver]

Originally Posted by Poya

1. Does a regular 4K cinema projector provide better picture than Digital IMAX, which uses two 2K projectors? Especially when the DI of that film is in 2K. And what if the DI is in 4K?

Some great questions:

A 4K projection does not always mean a better picture, the whole point of IMAX is to get you closer to the screen (they have a patent on theatre design so you cannot design a cinema like a true IMAX venue), IMAX digital projects more light than any other digital projection system that I know of. Resolution is not always the key to a better picture but it is important.

Originally Posted by Poya

2. Does DMR ruin or enhance the picture of the film? Also, does it also applies to films shot digitally, considering the point of the DMR is to reduce grain?

From what I have seen, DMR does enhance the picture. The DMR process increases the bit rates of colors. It also helps try to sharpen the image and deepen the blacks. I was actually shocked at how good the 2K picture looked.

In theory, 4K should look better. But that is not always the case.

Originally Posted by Poya

3. Can digitally shot films be projected on a 15/70 projector or will they look bad?

I have seen Skyfall on 15/70, it look very good. But The Dark Knight and Dark Knight Rises looked incredible and there were 11 prints from the L.A. area that were according to IMAX and Kodak the highest quality film projection ever seen in history.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by MrsMiniver

From what I have seen, DMR does enhance the picture.

Opinions vary. My next door neighbor thinks the Vivid mode (with noise reduction jacked up) enhances all his TV movie watching. Some filmmakers might scratch their heads as to that emulating their filmmaker intent.

Obviously, my next door neighbor is not Roger Deakins (who purposely chose not to have the DMR process done for the IMAX version of Skyfall because he didn’t like the look of the DMR processed samples of the Skyfall footage which were provided him for his assessment.

[Flatnate]

Oh man, did I fall deep in to this topic elsewhere on the forum about a year ago. I forget who all chimed in....

Anyway, things of note.

I know that urrently, Digital IMAX does use two proprietary Christie built 2K DLP projectors that IMAX claims is supposed to bring visible pixel structure closer to what you might find with a true 4K projector. I'm not sure what proprietary tech they use to do that, or how that happens technically. In my mind it sounded kind of like what JVC does with its "4k e-shift" feature but utilizing two projectors with the benefit of increased brightness.

Some people on the forum have been pretty critical of the IMAX DMR process. They also maintain that a film shot digitally in 2K, or scanned to a 2K digital intermediate won't benefit much from IMAX DMR for projection on 15 perf 70mm.

I wish I could say I saw Skyfall in several theaters utilizing several technologies. As not many movies come out with a 4K DCP for distribution.

My question!?!

You go to see a movie at digital IMAX. Do they have there own special IMAX DCP for every film they show? If so, is that for films that went through IMAX DMR or is it for all movies they play (does digital IMAX even play non IMAX DMR films)? Also what is the resolution of said IMAX DCP? *pushes nerd glasses up*

[BozQ]

IMAX's only appeal to me is the gigantic screen. It's like watching a 2.39 aspect ratio 480p DVD, upscaled to 1080p, project it on a 65-inch HDTV and have the picture zoomed in to fit the 16:9 screen with the image cropped off. The picture quality can only go so far.

The only reason for me to watch anything in IMAX, is if the movie was shot in or partially in IMAX. IMAX used to pride itself with 15/70 production and projection. Now, they're relegating their brand and image to take any source, apply DMR and project on a larger-than-usual screen. I'd even be cautious with "Digital IMAX 3D Camera". It's now in the paws of Michael Bay, shooting Transformers: Age of Extinction.

My point in all this? Don't lose sleep over the technicalities. Pay for the right experience. The feeling I get with IMAX DMR now is almost as bad as 3D conversion. Done for the sake of doing it, and increased ticket price. Oh, and by the way, IMAX only offers 5.1 surround.

I'd gladly pay to watch most movies in 2K and 7.1 Surround. If I get the option of watching it in 4K and/or Dolby Atmos, even better.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by MrsMiniver

Some great questions:

A 4K projection does not always mean a better picture, the whole point of IMAX is to get you closer to the screen (they have a patent on theatre design so you cannot design a cinema like a true IMAX venue), IMAX digital projects more light than any other digital projection system that I know of.

They may have a patent, but I doubt it would get by a challenge. The IMAX digital theaters that I've been to are not architecturally different than they were before the conversion from being a "normal" screen. The screen might be mounted slightly closer to the first row of seats, but that would never hold up in a patent challenge.

As for the light, I still felt that as much as I liked the presentation, digital IMAX 3D at the Loews Lincoln Square IMAX in NYC was still a bit too dim. But I think we're going to start seeing laser lamp theatrical projectors in 2014 and this should solve the digital 3D dimness issue.

Originally Posted by BozQ

My point in all this? Don't lose sleep over the technicalities. Pay for the right experience. The feeling I get with IMAX DMR now is almost as bad as 3D conversion.

I'd gladly pay to watch most movies in 2K and 7.1 Surround. If I get the option of watching it in 4K and/or Dolby Atmos, even better.

While given the choice between digital IMAX and Dolby Atmos (which usually plays in the higher-quality and large screen ETX, RPX or other similarly-equipped theaters), I'd go with Atmos.

But having said that, I did see "Gravity" in digital 3D IMAX (5.1) and it was a surprisingly great experience, even though I hate 3D in general, due to the dimmer image.

As for prices, I believe NYC is the highest-priced movie market in the U.S. Some months back, the Regal E-Walk was getting $14 for a regular presentation, $15 for 3D and $20 for 3D in the RPX theatre. Across the street, the AMC Empire 25 was getting $21.50 for IMAX 3D. But I went to the movies the other day and the "regular" ticket had been raised from $14 to $14.50. Don't know if the other prices went up as well.

I originally complained when the RPX and ETX theaters were charging more because I felt that all theatre presentations should be highest quality, but then I remembered that the roadshow theaters of the 1950s-70s, in which a fair percentage of films were shown in 70mm 6-track, were also quite expensive for their time - almost as expensive as a Broadway show.

So is it annoying to pay more for the better experience? Sure, but in the end, I think it's worth it. And it also has the advantage of keeping out the at least some of the people who do all the annoying things in movie theaters, although I suppose it gives others a sense of even more entitlement to be obnoxious, since they paid more.

[krazeyeyez]

The henry ford museum has the closest real imax to me. The last thing I would ever find fault with is the sound presentation. I must be missing something here?

[BozQ]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

While given the choice between digital IMAX and Dolby Atmos (which usually plays in the higher-quality and large screen ETX, RPX or other similarly-equipped theaters), I'd go with Atmos.

But having said that, I did see "Gravity" in digital 3D IMAX (5.1) and it was a surprisingly great experience, even though I hate 3D in general, due to the dimmer image.

As for prices, I believe NYC is the highest-priced movie market in the U.S. Some months back, the Regal E-Walk was getting $14 for a regular presentation, $15 for 3D and $20 for 3D in the RPX theatre. Across the street, the AMC Empire 25 was getting $21.50 for IMAX 3D. But I went to the movies the other day and the "regular" ticket had been raised from $14 to $14.50. Don't know if the other prices went up as well.

I originally complained when the RPX and ETX theaters were charging more because I felt that all theatre presentations should be highest quality, but then I remembered that the roadshow theaters of the 1950s-70s, in which a fair percentage of films were shown in 70mm 6-track, were also quite expensive for their time - almost as expensive as a Broadway show.

So is it annoying to pay more for the better experience? Sure, but in the end, I think it's worth it. And it also has the advantage of keeping out the at least some of the people who do all the annoying things in movie theaters, although I suppose it gives others a sense of even more entitlement to be obnoxious, since they paid more.

At this Blu-ray age, I think it's perfectly fine to spend a little more on a cinematic experience that Blu-ray cannot offer. Currently, I feel the most exciting of all the new, emerging technologies would be Dolby Atmos. Followed closely by 3D HFR.

And you're right, I remember watching Star Trek Into Darkness earlier this year, with only four people, including myself, in the theater. But on the other hand, I hope it doesn't continue this way. Dolby Atmos is one technology I hope will continue to flourish and not be a passing thing.

[MrsMiniver]

You go to see a movie at digital IMAX. Do they have there own special IMAX DCP for every film they show? If so, is that for films that went through IMAX DMR or is it for all movies they play (does digital IMAX even play non IMAX DMR films)? Also what is the resolution of said IMAX DCP? *pushes nerd glasses up*

IMAX Dcps are distributed from IMAX and only IMAX has access to the DMR files, they act like any other distributor. Other distributors can not distribute the IMAX movie.

As for playing non IMAX movies, the theatre can do it however it will not be a dual projector presentation.

[BozQ]

I'm quite sure the audio is merely LPCM 5.1, or at least lossless 5.1
They're just calling it Sonics-DDP

As for picture, more details would be cool though.

[MrsMiniver]

The sound for IMAX is lossless but it is totally their preprietary sound mix. The sound mix in a IMAX movie will be different than a standard theater.

[BozQ]

Originally Posted by MrsMiniver

The sound for IMAX is lossless but it is totally their preprietary sound mix. The sound mix in a IMAX movie will be different than a standard theater.

Yeah, that much I know. Different sound mix specifically for IMAX theater set up. I don't expect most Hollywood IMAX soundtrack to be above 24-bit/48KHz.

Just wondering, do you guys think it make sense for the IMAX DCP to be only 2K, just in different aspect ratio?

[MrsMiniver]

It makes sense for IMAX DCP to be 2K because it was designed for a 2008 era of projection. 4K was far off at the time and the workflows at the time were and are mostly still 2K. 4K is still a while off as a lot of theater chains still need to pay off their 2K units.

[img eL]

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/1200...-brian-bonnick

[img eL]

http://gizmodo.com/how-imax-makes-mo...ens-1485019177

[BozQ]

Thanks for the article links! I'll have to read it up later! Looks very informative!