HDR Discussion Thread

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

... on a news reel with a human volunteer at ~ the 15 sec. timestamp at the tournament in Long Beach -
[Rare] Bruce Lee Longbeach International Karate 'Complet' Bruce Lee talking audio - YouTube

Without cheating and googling your arse off so as to find some obscure archived article that might reveal the answer, if you can tell me who the Karate Grandmaster is pictured at ~ the 12sec. timestamp speaking into the microphone, then I’ll get you one of these mugs from one of the Top Gun: Maverick locations that imdb doesn’t seem to be aware of – https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...g#post15798829

Bruce Lee

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

That's my reaction to at least 95% of his posts.

You've got to be alert or you lose the flow.

* Going towards the two-million mark.
_____

Bonus:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLDM...ature=youtu.be

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by gkolb

....You’ve told us HFR movies will arrive, I hope it is better visually than when I saw The Hobbit, as that HFR experience was ‘jerky’ for lack of a better description. Trusting this can be improved.

Arrive, yes. To endure and carve out even a modest piece of the market, I’m skeptical. Because HFR narrative content remains a highly controversial topic among traditional cinephiles and, for that matter, the average Joe/Jane who have been visually conditioned, like imprinted ducks or geese, over the years in that 24fps is how a movie *should look*. Due to my lack of visual versatility I’m little embarrassed to admit that I still favor 24fps, but I think that’s due in part to years of conditioning and how upon getting older, I’ve become more set in my ways and I don’t embrace change and adapting to new things as quickly as I once did when I was in my 20-40’s.

If > non-traditional frame rate(s) has a future use for anything other than documentaries or sports, meaning dramatic motion pictures, I can’t see the early experimentation with the Hobbit ever being the solution and I think you’ll need something more refined as in Tony’s way –
https://www.reald.com/#/truemotion

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Russians:

Oh, I got it now, for on the last page I think I read ‘invisibly’ which threw me off completely (stealth technology), as didn’t the ex-KGB spy claim it was ‘invincible’ rather than ‘invisible’?

Putin: Russia's new nuclear missile is invincible - YouTube

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

That's my reaction to at least 95% of his posts.

Well Mecha, they all make perfect sense to me, for example with regards to this past post a couple pages back of which Waboman was confused – https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...3#post15926863

This be Mark in his (typical) T-shirt and pajamas….https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63q-AqKqC4k#t=1h13m47s

P.S.
Happy New Year Waboman (I think I forgot to give you the same back)

[LordoftheRings]

Invisible in the sense that no US radars can detect it, yet. ...So yes, invulnerable or invincible too, consequently.
_____

And yes, humor is a balance between serious and funny that we all have differently, read differently.
Particularly more today than yesterday.

And I like the Top Gun 2 subject intertwined with HDR.
...Plus Tom Cruise, Jerry Bruckheimer, Chuck Norris, Bruce Lee and Bruce Willis too.

We learn from it all; Best way to start the new year.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Bruce Lee

no, look again, the guy with the receding hairline at the 12 sec. timestamp speaking into the microphone.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

You've got to be alert or you lose the flow.

Waboman, I see you changed your avatar, yet again. Little known fact – https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...h#post13843431

P.S.
Mark has a T-shirt collection which includes a sagittal view of the globe - https://vimeo.com/6535091 (goes well with his shorts)

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

*Going towards the two-million mark.

Don't say that. For when we reach that milestone gkolb will put the pressure on again and say something like 'On our way to 3 million'.

These bones are tired.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

yesterday

Re: HFR clip in this past post - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...n#post14556365

I notice the demo link of 100fps is no longer viable ^ as my hyperlink routes you back to Blu-ray.com. The clip is available on YouTube, but you won’t get HFR due to the processing (100 fps ->60 fps), only 60fps <- which by definition is not HFR…..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOMJ75Mr1jY#t=1s

Given the recent news, I wish LG would make this (and more) native HFR demo clip(s) available again. I think it would demonstrate the value of HFR with panning, often used by camera operators covering soccer matches and such as well as unblurring some of the object motion (people walking fast, the bike rider, etc).

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Chuck Norris

who dat?

[Waboman]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Well Mecha, they all make perfect sense to me, for example with regards to this past post a couple pages back of which Waboman was confused – https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...3#post15926863

This be Mark in his (typical) T-shirt and pajamas….https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63q-AqKqC4k#t=1h13m47s

P.S.
Happy New Year Waboman (I think I forgot to give you the same back)

Mark is my hero.👊

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Waboman, I see you changed your avatar, yet again. Little known fact – https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...h#post13843431

P.S.
Mark has a T-shirt collection which includes a sagittal view of the globe - https://vimeo.com/6535091 (goes well with his shorts)



Don't say that. For when we reach that milestone gkolb will put the pressure on again and say something like 'On our way to 3 million'.

These bones are tired.

Champagne wishes and caviar dreams.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

no, look again, the guy with the receding hairline at the 12 sec. timestamp speaking into the microphone.

Steven Seagal?

Or one of these two guys, the more oriental/exotic one, not the Frenchman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFJW...ature=youtu.be

I guess I'll keep drinking champagne from my champagne crystal glass and not from a Maverick mug.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Steven Seagal?

Or one of these two guys, the more oriental/exotic one, not the Frenchman.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFJW...ature=youtu.be

Nope, he be Jhoon Rhee in that old video. Great man.

Jhoon’s Obit (which includes some history - associations with Bruce Lee, Muhammad Ali, Chuck Norris, etc.) - https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...&noredirect=on

As an aside, I enjoyed being one of his students at his Connecticut Ave. school. After some success, I really didn’t pursue the discipline after high school as I became more involved in collegiate soccer and my studies.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

That's my reaction to at least 95% of his posts.

Mecha, in reference to this from last April - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...s#post14993439
Find the keyword ‘sensor’ in this patent and start reading - https://patents.justia.com/patent/10140953

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Waboman, I see you changed your avatar, yet again. Little known fact – https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...h#post13843431

P.S.
Mark has a T-shirt collection which includes a sagittal view of the globe - https://vimeo.com/6535091 (goes well with his shorts)



Don't say that. For when we reach that milestone gkolb will put the pressure on again and say something like 'On our way to 3 million'.

These bones are tired.

I've laid off of number pushing, as it seems counter-productive sometimes.
However, when we hit 2M, all bets are off. (i'm thinking it will be not long after CES).

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Arrive, yes. To endure and carve out even a modest piece of the market, I’m skeptical. Because HFR narrative content remains a highly controversial topic among traditional cinephiles and, for that matter, the average Joe/Jane who have been visually conditioned, like imprinted ducks or geese, over the years in that 24fps is how a movie *should look*.

That's one way of putting it . Yes we are all used to the particular look of 24fps. Conditioned like ducks, I wouldn't be so harsh. Yes we are used to it, it has a very particular "look", which helps transport us to another world. I firmly believe that it is all is part of the willing act of "suspension of disbelief".

Just like when we see an action sequence yet are able to hear a full invisible orchestra playing music along with it is part of that willing act of "suspension of disbelief". We all know there really isn't a full orchestra at the bottom of the ocean, or in space, just off-camera. But the language of cinema built up over many many years has these "rules" which we all accept. The dreamy look of 24fps is a vital part of this "language" IMHO.

Therefore, when you remove that dreamy look of 24fps, to make it "more realistic", you are actually taking something away . You lose that fragile dreamy look; it is snatched away, and instead of being more immersive, it has the reverse affect! It takes you out of the movie. It becomes just like watching the rehearsal footage in the extras, which we are used to seeing shown (as it was filmed) in 60i with smooth motion.

For me it boils down to:
Smooth motion = rehearsal footage = actors practising
Dreamy 24fps = a movie = the language of cinema

Due to my lack of visual versatility I’m little embarrassed to admit that I still favor 24fps, but I think that’s due in part to years of conditioning and how upon getting older, I’ve become more set in my ways and I don’t embrace change and adapting to new things as quickly as I once did when I was in my 20-40’s.

I'm proud to admit it, not embarrassed, because it's worthy of discussion and I've had a stab at my reasons above. I have visual versatility, but I choose and prefer the look of 24fps.

If > non-traditional frame rate(s) has a future use for anything other than documentaries or sports, meaning dramatic motion pictures, I can’t see the early experimentation with the Hobbit ever being the solution and I think you’ll need something more refined as in Tony’s way –
https://www.reald.com/#/truemotion

I heartily agree that something new other than just a constant HFR would be the answer - if there is even a question or need to change, of course.
I just wish that the clips on that page worked!

[Penton-Man]

Oh, I understand your position as you make a strong argument and may very well be right. I just don’t know the answer for sure as it’s an interesting dilemma . Scientifically, I think the only way you could make that determination would be if you had two large sample groups, the first being any of us movie blokes, the other consisting of people having been raised in a society that only watched movies at a high frame rate, for years, even decades, and interviewed each group as to how much they enjoy motion pictures as entertainment and then have each group watch all their favorite movies at the alternative frame rate (24fps folks watch at HFR, HFR folks watch at 24fps).

It would be evidentiary if the results showed the group who grew up watching only HFR movies for years found their favorites to be more absorbing at 24 fps….or, on the other hand, felt that the 24 fps looked so blurry that it took them out of the flick. I guess we’ll never know. The only inkling of a definitive answer that we can get is I think it was Ang Lee or Tony who mentioned that after hours and hours of watching the footage of Billy Lynn’s Long Halftime Walk for editing, grading, etc. they far preferred the 120fps version over the 24fps iteration. But it could be argued that both guys are inherently biased.

P.S.
I’m “embarrassed” in the sense that I don’t have the mental power/control (perhaps I should have spent more years training in Jhoon Rhee’s studio?) to turn off years of visual system conditioning in order to make a completely objective determination with regards to this issue….not that I’m embarrassed as preferring one frame rate (24fps) over another.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

That's my reaction to at least 95% of his posts.

On the last page – https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...e#post15931985 , although it may be difficult to make out, regarding the embroidery I circled on the front of Jerry’s cap - http://inflight.squarespace.com/feat...as-fallon.html

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

eeColor wanted to do something similar back in the day with their eeColor box that offered the ability to do 3D LUTs but also apply some proprietary changes based on research done by Kodak on color perception in different viewing conditions. Never really took off though.

One of my biggest complaints about PQ is its limitations in calibration when it comes to different viewing environments. By being absolute it doesn't lend itself well to viewing environments that aren't essentially mastering room level. I've had many conversations about this with Stacey Spears. It many ways it can set itself up for the same issues we had with high dynamic range music. People's listening environment (home, car, office) tend to have a higher background noise level (just like most viewing environments) so we saw more and more dynamic range compression built in, hence the LOUDNESS wars. This continues today. I can see a lot of the same arguments and complaints happening with HDR (too dim, I want it bright).

Mecha, technically, one of the assertions of HLG being more versatile than PQ is - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...6#post13784796

You’re good in my book as long as you share the same sentiment as Shalashaska - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...e#post13746972 .

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

That's spooky, I rewatched the other video that filmbook did from that session just a couple of days ago.

Keep an eye peeled for the video of him participating at this year’s upcoming AFC Conference in Paris - https://www.afcinema.com/Journees-AF...n.html?lang=fr