The Criterion Collection

[octagon]

Originally Posted by StLouisRibs

I'm saying you've made no legitimate criticism whatsoever and instead made totally subjective statements that amount to nothing. Your critique/opinion of the film is not rooted in any actual argument and instead on the totally arbitrary fact that you apparently didn't care to stick around for the end.

As far as useful feedback goes I'll take 'couldn't finish it' over 'sublime' or 'exquisite' any day of the week.

Is 'boring' any more or less legitimate or useful than 'awesome'?

People give thumbnail gut reactions - both positive and negative - all the time.

So what?

[bwdowiak]

Originally Posted by StLouisRibs

I'm saying you've made no legitimate criticism whatsoever and instead made totally subjective statements that amount to nothing. Your critique/opinion of the film is not rooted in any actual argument and instead on the totally arbitrary fact that you apparently didn't care to stick around for the end.

I'm here to walk you through this, STL...

what do you think that might mean?

[hoytereden]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

Coming home to find that your home was destroyed by a flash flood would be worse, in my opinion.

Back in 2009, my apartment was flooded out in the middle of the day during the big "500 year flood" that hit Atlanta. I was fortunately home that day, because it was a furlough day with government, and I was able to save most of my possessions.

A lot of my neighbors, though, were at work at the time. They arrived home later in the afternoon and were surprised to find that everything that they owned was destroyed, and that they had to move elsewhere.


(I know that this is not Criterion-related, but I figured that perspective might be helpful.)

I live in one of the highest annual rainfall areas in the US so something like this is always in the back of my mind. In 2000 we had a "100 year flood" that gave us nearly 30" of rain in less than a 24 hour period. Somehow, we experienced little damage but it certainly made me aware of where to put and protect things like collectables.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by Feiereisel

Also regarding comic book movies--let's not forget that Blue is the Warmest Color is based on a graphic novel. It' not all superheroes--not that there's anything inherently wrong with those, either.

Yes, that's certainly the case. There are any number of "comic book movies" that don't involve superheroes. Four off the top of my head: Ghost World, American Splendor, Road to Perdition, and A History of Violence. All of which (especially the first two) can be argued to be "art house fare".

Superhero films are certainly a "thing" now, much more than they were in the past, but it's not like they haven't been around a while. There were superhero serials in the 40s, random superhero films in the 60s and 70s, a few more in the 80s and 90s. The modern wave of superhero films can be argued to have started in 2000 with X-Men.

I'd argue that the reason they are more popular now than they were last century is undoubtedly the advances in CGI that made superhero action (not to mention the characters themselves, like Hulk) much more realistic. Which is why the big blockbuster SF/fantasy films are popular as well.

[Rich Pure Doom]

Originally Posted by pedromvu

Well atleast Snowpiercer is based on a Graphic Novel

what i found odd is there is no Tale of Princess Kaguya that has received awesome reviews too, and was my favorite of the ones i have seen so far released the past year.

Tale of Princess Kaguya shouldn't have just won best animated film, it should've won best picture. Takahata is the man.

[Infernal King]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

I'm reading a lot of posts about comic book movies here just now.

I had no reservations about listing Captain America: The Winter Soldier as one of my top five films of 2014, alongside more obscure numbers like Under the Skin and Cold in July.

Captain America: The Winter Soldier is not only my favorite of the Marvel comic films, but it's a solid great flick on its own terms outside of all that. It's more like a throwback to the 1970s paranoid spy thrillers (Three Days of the Condor, Marathon Man, etc.) with a little superhero stuff thrown in. It's a well-paced and engaging work that is done big and done right. I'm always up for movies like that.

I pride myself on being an adventurous fan of cinema, but I also have no problem conceding that the masses are right a lot of the time. Several of these Marvel flicks are A-okay in my book.

I strongly disagree that The Winter Soldier is a throwback to 1970s political/spy thrillers. It's another Marvel Studios big budget TV episode with another huge explosion filled climax and ends on a much more optimistic and lighter note than any of the aforementioned films. Maybe if HYDRA had succeeded, I'd reconsider. (It's a superhero film so of course good triumphs over evil which is why I'm not using a spoiler tag for that.) It's not All The President's Men with a little superhero stuff thrown in, it's the opposite at best. No offense but as soon as I started reading these comparisons I laughed out loud because of how ridiculous they are. It also comes across as a backhanded compliment: It's not just a comic book movie, it's [insert other genre here] as well! As if being a great comic book movie isn't enough?

Sorry for the rant but like I said, I really, really don't agree with this bewilderingly popular assessment of The Winter Soldier.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by mrjohnnyb

For those just interested in the top 25 of 2014, here it is:

TSPDT's 25 Most Critically-Acclaimed Films of 2014
1. BOYHOOD Richard Linklater
2. THE GRAND BUDAPEST HOTEL Wes Anderson
3. UNDER THE SKIN Jonathan Glazer
4. WHIPLASH Damien Chazelle
5. IDA Pawel Pawlikowski
6. ONLY LOVERS LEFT ALIVE Jim Jarmusch
7. BIRDMAN Alejandro González Iñárritu
8. FORCE MAJEURE Ruben Östlund
9. THE IMMIGRANT James Gray
10. GOODBYE TO LANGUAGE Jean-Luc Godard
11. TWO DAYS, ONE NIGHT Jean-Pierre Dardenne & Luc Dardenne
12. NIGHTCRAWLER Dan Gilroy
13. GONE GIRL David Fincher
14. WE ARE THE BEST! Lukas Moodysson
15. INHERENT VICE Paul Thomas Anderson
16. SELMA Ava DuVernay
17. THE BABADOOK Jennifer Kent
18. CITIZENFOUR Laura Poitras
19. MR. TURNER Mike Leigh
20. THE LEGO MOVIE Phil Lord & Christopher Miller
21. LISTEN UP PHILIP Alex Ross Perry
22. SNOWPIERCER Bong Joon-ho
23. MANAKAMANA Stephanie Spray & Pacho Velez
24. FOXCATCHER Bennett Miller
25. STRAY DOGS Tsai Ming-liang

Originally Posted by exolstice

Much better list than what the Academy came up with. Most of those I've either seen and loved or really want to see.

What are you talking about? Five of the eight Best Picture nominees are in that list.

[adamhopelies]

Originally Posted by WonderWeasel

After that, 'Daredevil'. Forgettable. Ang Lee's 'Hulk'? Garbage. 'Catwoman'? No comment needed. 'The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen'? 'Fantastic Four'? The cinematic abortions that were 'Thor' and 'Ghost Rider'? 'Green Lantern'? 'Jonah Hex'?

We're of a similar vintage. I think you're way off with Thor and Hulk, but were the films you've listed the lone comic-book movies out there then I could sympathise with your point of view. The thing is tho, you've listed 9 rubbish films from a ten year period, with the most recent of those 4 years old. It's not the most compelling argument against the genre as it is in 2015.

[adamhopelies]

Originally Posted by Infernal King

I strongly disagree that The Winter Soldier is a throwback to 1970s political/spy thrillers. It's another Marvel Studios big budget TV episode with another huge explosion filled climax and ends on a much more optimistic and lighter note than any of the aforementioned films. It's not All The President's Men with a little superhero stuff thrown in, it's the opposite at best. No offense but as soon as I started reading these comparisons I laughed out loud but now I simply find it ridiculous. It also comes across as a backhanded compliment: It's not just a comic book movie, it's [insert other genre here] as well! As if being a great comic book movie isn't enough?

Sorry for the rant but like I said, I really, really don't agree with this bewilderingly popular assessment of The Winter Soldier.

But Winter Soldier LITERALLY is a politically-driven conspiracy thriller pasted to the backbone of a comic-book movie.

[adamhopelies]

Originally Posted by mrjohnnyb

For those just interested in the top 25 of 2014, here it is:

TSPDT's 25 Most Critically-Acclaimed Films of 2014
1. BOYHOOD Richard Linklater
2. THE GRAND BUDAPEST HOTEL Wes Anderson
3. UNDER THE SKIN Jonathan Glazer
4. WHIPLASH Damien Chazelle
5. IDA Pawel Pawlikowski
6. ONLY LOVERS LEFT ALIVE Jim Jarmusch
7. BIRDMAN Alejandro González Iñárritu
8. FORCE MAJEURE Ruben Östlund
9. THE IMMIGRANT James Gray
10. GOODBYE TO LANGUAGE Jean-Luc Godard
11. TWO DAYS, ONE NIGHT Jean-Pierre Dardenne & Luc Dardenne
12. NIGHTCRAWLER Dan Gilroy
13. GONE GIRL David Fincher
14. WE ARE THE BEST! Lukas Moodysson
15. INHERENT VICE Paul Thomas Anderson
16. SELMA Ava DuVernay
17. THE BABADOOK Jennifer Kent
18. CITIZENFOUR Laura Poitras
19. MR. TURNER Mike Leigh
20. THE LEGO MOVIE Phil Lord & Christopher Miller
21. LISTEN UP PHILIP Alex Ross Perry
22. SNOWPIERCER Bong Joon-ho
23. MANAKAMANA Stephanie Spray & Pacho Velez
24. FOXCATCHER Bennett Miller
25. STRAY DOGS Tsai Ming-liang

I've seen the ones marked in bold. I think 2014 was a great year in general, and the fact that only 3 of those made my own top ten of the year is a testament to this.

1. Adieu au langage 3D (Jean-Luc Godard, FRA)
2. P’tit Quinquin (Bruno Dumont, FRA)
3. The Grand Budapest Hotel (Wes Anderson, US)
4. Bastards (Claire Denis, FRA)
5. Listen Up Philip (Alex Ross Perry, US)
6. Horse Money (Pedro Costa, POR)
7. School Of Babel (Julie Bertucelli, FRA)
8. Maps To The Stars (David Cronenberg, CAN/US)
9. Guardians Of The Galaxy (James Gunn, US)
10. Welcome To New York (Abel Ferrara, FRA/US)

Inherent Vice would have been in my top ten, but only opened here this year. I'm still holding out for The Immigrant to be released here too.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Infernal King

It's not All The President's Men with a little superhero stuff thrown in, it's the opposite at best.

All the President's Men is an odd comparison. The good guys did fairly well in that film, as I recall.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by WonderWeasel

I know my comments on the superhero movies made me sound like a cantankerous old curmudgeon, but I assure you I'm only 33, and my disdain for superhero movies is based on what I perceive as a lack in quality.

The superhero movie craze seems to have started with the first 'X-Men' movie and Sam Raimi's 'Spider-Man' films. I was already a little leery after the round of 'Batman' movies starring Val Kilmer and George Clooney, but I decided to give them a try.

First off, I didn't mind the 'X-Men' movie. Nothing groundbreaking, but watchable. Then, I saw 'Spider-Man'.

I get that Raimi was trying to translate the feel of a comic book to the big screen, but the films just came off as cheesy to me. I felt like I was watching a PG-rated 'Army of Darkness'.

After that, 'Daredevil'. Forgettable. Ang Lee's 'Hulk'? Garbage. 'Catwoman'? No comment needed. 'The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen'? 'Fantastic Four'? The cinematic abortions that were 'Thor' and 'Ghost Rider'? 'Green Lantern'? 'Jonah Hex'?

Most of the ones you mention here were terrible, even for someone like me who is inclined to like superhero films. The first two X-Men films were OK, but don't repeat well. Same with the first Spider-Man (though the second was excellent). I liked Daredevil when I first saw it. I rewatched it recently on BD and it didn't hold up, though that might've been because it's a Director's Cut. Catwoman is the worst big-budget major-studio film I've ever seen in my life (which is saying a lot, being next to things like Armageddon, Star Trek V: The Final Frontier, et alia).

And I don't think Green Lantern and Thor were awful, though they certainly aren't great. The one I most strongly disagree with you on is Ang Lee's Hulk. Aside from the last 20 minutes or so, I thought it was quite good.

The real point, though, seems to be that you've seen a bunch of the poorer examples of the genre and therefore written the entire genre off. Well, that's up to you. It's no skin off my nose if you don't want to see any of them. But one could just as easily come up with a similar list of bad films in any other genre and come to the same conclusion about those genres as well.

[Helikaon]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

I'm reading a lot of posts about comic book movies here just now.

I had no reservations about listing Captain America: The Winter Soldier as one of my top five films of 2014, alongside more obscure numbers like Under the Skin and Cold in July.

Captain America: The Winter Soldier is not only my favorite of the Marvel comic films, but it's a solid great flick on its own terms outside of all that. It's more like a throwback to the 1970s paranoid spy thrillers (Three Days of the Condor, Marathon Man, etc.) with a little superhero stuff thrown in. It's a well-paced and engaging work that is done big and done right. I'm always up for movies like that.

I pride myself on being an adventurous fan of cinema, but I also have no problem conceding that the masses are right a lot of the time. Several of these Marvel flicks are A-okay in my book.

Hell yeah, it's one of my favourites from last year too!

Also, to whoever asked about Still Walking, I really recommend it. It got even better on second viewing!

[jw007]

Originally Posted by *DrStrangelove*

Nah, I love and enjoyed Persona but was bored watching PickPocket. Does that still mean I have ADHD?

Well, ADHD is redefined for you in this case. And for your case ADHD would be defined as "Artistic Directors Have Differences".

[AaronJ]

Originally Posted by adamhopelies

I dont disagree with any of that, but it doesn't really address my point either (sorry, but I want to make that clear). I'm not saying that Ben-Hur is the better movie because it made more money. Breathless is one of my favourite films, and the single most important film of my life.

My point was that it's easy to over-assume how much of an impact that film had on the wider culture at the time of its release.

Sure, Breathless was a big success in France in 1960. It had more than 2 million admissions. However, when one contextualises this against the rest of the box-office for that year a bigger, clearer picture is revealed (13 million tickets were sold to Ben-Hur). That isn't to say that the release of Breathless wasn't an epoch-defining event, but that's because it connected with a very specific section of French society, as opposed to the country at large.

Oh, I get it. I just think it's important for us to always consider how important a film is to film. And although I like a lot of blockbusters -- I can't tell you how many times I've watched The Dark Knight for instance -- they rarely have an impact on film as an art form. That is what I was trying, and mostly failing, to get at.

Originally Posted by bstv69

Definitely upgrade if you haven't already, I just finished watching this on a 4k TV and it is incredible how amazing it looks. Especially if you watch the special feature where Scorsese shows the restoration processes and shows before and after

Yeah, arriving Thursday along with Fanny & Alexander, another upgrade. I'm definitely looking forward to it.

[adamhopelies]

Originally Posted by AaronJ

Oh, I get it. I just think it's important for us to always consider how important a film is to film. And although I like a lot of blockbusters -- I can't tell you how many times I've watched The Dark Knight for instance -- they rarely have an impact on film as an art form. That is what I was trying, and mostly failing, to get at.

I'm much the same. I do see most blockbusters (for work), but they rarely make any real kind of lasting impact on me. I do like writing about them tho, as they're a part of the contemporary American mythology to an intrigued foreigner like me! I do think the work that Marvel Studios are doing is genuinely very impressive too, from both a cultural and cinematic standpoint.

[Infernal King]

Originally Posted by WonderWeasel

I know my comments on the superhero movies made me sound like a cantankerous old curmudgeon, but I assure you I'm only 33, and my disdain for superhero movies is based on what I perceive as a lack in quality.

The superhero movie craze seems to have started with the first 'X-Men' movie and Sam Raimi's 'Spider-Man' films. I was already a little leery after the round of 'Batman' movies starring Val Kilmer and George Clooney, but I decided to give them a try.

First off, I didn't mind the 'X-Men' movie. Nothing groundbreaking, but watchable. Then, I saw 'Spider-Man'.

I get that Raimi was trying to translate the feel of a comic book to the big screen, but the films just came off as cheesy to me. I felt like I was watching a PG-rated 'Army of Darkness'.

After that, 'Daredevil'. Forgettable. Ang Lee's 'Hulk'? Garbage. 'Catwoman'? No comment needed. 'The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen'? 'Fantastic Four'? The cinematic abortions that were 'Thor' and 'Ghost Rider'? 'Green Lantern'? 'Jonah Hex'?

Did you purposely seek out the absolute worst superhero films since the 90s? Because if so, I can understand your pain. But there are a lot better superhero films out there.

Originally Posted by adamhopelies

But Winter Soldier LITERALLY is a politically-driven conspiracy thriller pasted to the backbone of a comic-book movie.

I would argue it's a comic book movie with some politically-driven conspiracy thriller aspects. Essentially, the other way around. And like I said, good guys win, bad guys lose, an almost Avengers-scale action climax that decimates any doubt what this movie's primary concern is, and the fact that everyone involved in government surveillance are LITERALLY Nazis is so childish that I couldn't take the film's primary conceit seriously.

Originally Posted by octagon

All the President's Men is an odd comparison. The good guys did fairly well in that film, as I recall.

True, I realized that myself after hitting "Submit Reply" but I think I heard Kevin Smith make that comparison on a podcast. I believe my point still stands even if you delete that title, however.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by Infernal King

I strongly disagree that The Winter Soldier is a throwback to 1970s political/spy thrillers. It's another Marvel Studios big budget TV episode with another huge explosion filled climax and ends on a much more optimistic and lighter note than any of the aforementioned films. Maybe if HYDRA had succeeded, I'd reconsider. (It's a superhero film so of course good triumphs over evil which is why I'm not using a spoiler tag for that.) It's not All The President's Men with a little superhero stuff thrown in, it's the opposite at best. No offense but as soon as I started reading these comparisons I laughed out loud because of how ridiculous they are. It also comes across as a backhanded compliment: It's not just a comic book movie, it's [insert other genre here] as well! As if being a great comic book movie isn't enough?

Sorry for the rant but like I said, I really, really don't agree with this bewilderingly popular assessment of The Winter Soldier.

I disagree. Sure, it's not All the President's Men, but that doesn't mean that it's just like all of the others. I think calling it a "throwback to the 1970s political thrillers" might be overstating the case, but what I would say is that it's a superhero film wrapped in a 70s political thriller (and to use the Redford connection, I'd say more 3 Days of the Condor than All the President's Men), just as the first Cap movie was a superhero film wrapped in a war movie.

Anyway, the fact that it dealt -- in a serious way -- with issues of freedom vs security puts it above the general slug-fests that most superhero films are. Even the good ones -- as much as I enjoy the hell out of The Avengers, it really is little more than a superhero slug-fest, albeit a well-made one. And the fact that one of the heroes essentially pulled a Snowden is another point to show it's not exactly taking the easy road.

[Infernal King]

Originally Posted by jayembee

I disagree. Sure, it's not All the President's Men, but that doesn't mean that it's just like all of the others. I think calling it a "throwback to the 1970s political thrillers" might be overstating the case, but what I would say is that it's a superhero film wrapped in a 70s political thriller (and to use the Redford connection, I'd say more 3 Days of the Condor than All the President's Men), just as the first Cap movie was a superhero film wrapped in a war movie.

Anyway, the fact that it dealt -- in a serious way -- with issues of freedom vs security puts it above the general slug-fests that most superhero films are. Even the good ones -- as much as I enjoy the hell out of The Avengers, it really is little more than a superhero slug-fest, albeit a well-made one. And the fact that one of the heroes essentially pulled a Snowden is another point to show it's not exactly taking the easy road.

Again, the villains in the government were literally Nazis. That is not dealing with the issue in a serious way. HYDRA utterly failed, Captain America succeeded in destroying their plan. The film took the easy, black and white way out.

But point taken, I will rescind my All the President's Men comparison (damn you, Kevin Smith). However, I believe you and I are on the same page in that it's primarily another superhero film - and I would argue just another TV episode - with a political conspiracy at its core.

[WonderWeasel]

Originally Posted by jayembee

I don't see advertising for comic-book-based movies to any greater degree than anything else. But that's beside the point. The studios might promote any given superhero movie to a greater extent than any given crime thriller, but if there are twice as many crime thrillers being made, you're going to see that many more TV ads (and trailers at the theater, and billboards along the highway).

So, you're telling me out of the 600 movies released in the US every year, there aren't exponentially more thriller/crime movies than comic book movies? That seems like an incorrect statement.

I also don't understand why you seem to get so confrontational and snarky just because someone has a different opinion than you. You should probably work on that.