The Criterion Collection

[llj]

Originally Posted by Ray Jackson

Bitter Tears is for the hardcore faithful imo.

...Ali is for those who just want to dip their toes in the Fassbinder water.

Ray is right guys. Bitter Tears is not for everyone. Just the fact that the whole movie happens in one room will be a possible turnoff to many.

I also agree with you on Pierrot Le Fou on it being one of Godard's best. Not sure why a lot of people here don't seem to like it.

[mja345]

Originally Posted by llj

Ray is right guys. Bitter Tears is not for everyone. Just the fact that the whole movie happens in one room will be a possible turnoff to many.

I also agree with you on Pierrot Le Fou on it being one of Godard's best. Not sure why a lot of people here don't seem to like it.

I really enjoy "Pierrot Le Fou". My least favorite Godard film I've seen is one of his most beloved, "Band of Outsiders". Aside from a few sequences, I find that film brutally dull.

[Sifox211]

Originally Posted by oildude

RIP Paul Kantner, one of the founding members of Jefferson Airplane, who passed away January 28 at the age of 74 ...

Not another one! Ballad of the Chrome Nun (not a JA track - which is why it took me so long to track it down!) is one of my all time favourite tracks. The interplay between the guitar solo and Slick's da-da-da vocals is pure r'n'r magic

RIP

[ckt]

I like "Contempt" a lot. Would be really nice to get a Criterion release of that!

[Ausjdm]

Originally Posted by mja345

I've seen "Performance", "Walkabout", "Don't Look Now", "Man Who Fell to Earth", "Eureka", and "Insignificance" from Roeg. Never seen "Bad Timing". I love "Performance", "Walkabout", "Don't Look Now" and "Insignificance". I was neutral on "MWFTE". I didn't really care for "Eureka", but probably need to rewatch it. Roeg was quite the iconoclast though, very interesting director.

Roeg also did a TV movie in the 90s called "Full Body Massage" with Mimi Rogers. She's topless for a good portion of the movie and she is, let's just say, unbelievably well-endowed. Not a good movie, and Roeg had clearly lost his touch at that point, but it's noteworthy for Mimi Rogers.

I've seen mwfte, bad timing and own don't look now but screw all this Full Body Massage sounds Amazing lol! Need to google this...

[oildude]

Originally Posted by Sifox211

Not another one! Ballad of the Chrome Nun (not a JA track - which is why it took me so long to track it down!) is one of my all time favourite tracks. The interplay between the guitar solo and Slick's da-da-da vocals is pure r'n'r magic

RIP

January 2016 has been the month the music died. I can't remember any other quite like it for rock and roll. Excluding airplane crashes and such.

[llj]

Watched Dressed to Kill last night. It occurred to me while watching it that the kind of swooning score by Pino Donaggio would probably have been considered out of date or old fashioned even in 1980. Personally, I kind of miss those romantic, swooning operatic scores that were used to highlight the emotions of the characters. I mean, I wouldn't like it in EVERY movie, but I certainly don't want modern filmmakers to be embarrassed to use it today. I guess modern audiences would find them 'cheesy' now, which is just another reason for me to rant about Today's Generation I guess.

[Ray Jackson]

Originally Posted by llj

Watched Dressed to Kill last night. It occurred to me while watching it that the kind of swooning score by Pino Donaggio would probably have been considered out of date or old fashioned even in 1980. Personally, I kind of miss those romantic, swooning operatic scores that were used to highlight the emotions of the characters. I guess modern audiences would find them 'cheesy' now, which is just another reason for me to rant about the Today's Generation I guess.

Few scenes in movie history have ever scared me like the elevator scene in Dressed to Kill.

[Ausjdm]

I saw Revenant. I think Leo and Tom hardy should win Oscars (I argue Hardy was even better, it's a more interesting character. He's a better actor than Leo imo.) but in the end something left me cold by the end. I was expecting the best movie of the year easily but no. I still rank Mad Max #1. I still need to see Room, Spotlight, Brooklyn though

[Snicket]

Any discussion of Roeg that does not include this film is a wasted discussion.

The Witches (4/10) Movie CLIP - Maximum Results! (1990) HD - YouTube

[812crew]

Originally Posted by llj

Watched Dressed to Kill last night. It occurred to me while watching it that the kind of swooning score by Pino Donaggio would probably have been considered out of date or old fashioned even in 1980. Personally, I kind of miss those romantic, swooning operatic scores that were used to highlight the emotions of the characters. I mean, I wouldn't like it in EVERY movie, but I certainly don't want modern filmmakers to be embarrassed to use it today. I guess modern audiences would find them 'cheesy' now, which is just another reason for me to rant about Today's Generation I guess.

Ha. I actually watched this again this weekend too (although I've probably seen it 5 times in the past). I looked at a lot of reviews / internet comments after I watched it, and noticed a lot of dislike for the movie. And I have to say, I think music was probably a big part of it (although many people didn't signal that out). With a lot of comments, people said the movie was cheesy or outdated or ridiculous, and I think some of that (even subconsciously) had to be the score. I don't hate the music (in fact, I think it works really well at times)...but I couldn't help think as I was watching yesterday: what if this movie had a different score entirely? A more conventional score, something much less in your face. It made me wonder: is it possible that the movie would be much more popular....and considered, overwhelmingly, a classic? Aside from the music (and a couple of cheesy soft lighting shots), I think the movie's really interesting / scary / suspenseful.

[Nuck Horris]

Originally Posted by Snicket

Any discussion of Roeg that does not include this film is a wasted discussion.

What about Puffball: The Devil's Eyeball? Anyone ever see that?

[llj]

Originally Posted by 812crew

Ha. I actually watched this again this weekend too (although I've probably seen it 5 times in the past). I looked at a lot of reviews / internet comments after I watched it, and noticed a lot of dislike for the movie. And I have to say, I think music was probably a big part of it (although many people didn't signal that out). With a lot of comments, people said the movie was cheesy or outdated or ridiculous, and I think some of that (even subconsciously) had to be the score. I don't hate the music (in fact, I think it works really well at times)...but I couldn't help think as I was watching yesterday: what if this movie had a different score entirely? A more conventional score, something much less in your face. It made me wonder: is it possible that the movie would be much more popular....and considered, overwhelmingly, a classic? Aside from the music (and a couple of cheesy soft lighting shots), I think the movie's really interesting / scary / suspenseful.

I think De Palma was going for a heightened sense of cinema, and the overpowering music was a big part of it. And when you exaggerate every element, especially the music, what you have is a movie that puts its emotions on its sleeve. Dressed to Kill is a conventionally written thriller that's just directed completely to the max. Every element is turned up to 11: swooning music, swirling cameras, slow-mo, every cinematic trick in the book. And I think, especially today, many audiences are not as receptive to the kind of naked, unabashed kind of melodramatic cinema anymore because of where we are culturally and socially. There are SO MANY THINGS now we consider "cringeworthy" or "awkward", and much of this is centered on how we display our emotions. Scorsese is the closest thing to someone who still occasionally 'exaggerates' cinematically, but he tends to use well known musical tracks in an ironic or distancing sense in those scenes.

I don't know if I can really articulate this right, but in the 1930s, 40s, and 50s, audiences accepted the heightened drama and absurdities of cinema. Somewhere around the 1960s, there was a movement towards more 'realistic' cinematic depictions of emotion. Acting styles changed too. Less broad, more minimalist. There was a demand, that still carries to today, that film more or less be objective rather than subjective. Dressed to Kill, I feel, was De Palma attempting to operate on a more subjective cinematic level.

As for popularity, I haven't checked the box office numbers, but I get the impression from the extras that Dressed to Kill was a populist hit at the time.

[ShellOilJunior]

Originally Posted by Ray Jackson

LOVE IT.

Broke my Fassbinder cherry on WOAW.

...long and difficult to get through on first viewing imo.

I'll add my praise to the list. I blind bought it when it came out (It was mistakenly priced at $15 on Amazon) and really enjoyed it. I thought the 212 minutes really went fast. I really dig thoughtful books and films about the future. Dystopia especially.

[mja345]

Originally Posted by llj

I don't know if I can really articulate this right, but in the 1930s, 40s, and 50s, audiences accepted the heightened drama and absurdities of cinema. Somewhere around the 1960s, there was a movement towards more 'realistic' cinematic depictions of emotion. Acting styles changed too. Less broad, more minimalist. There was a demand, that still carries to today, that film more or less be objective rather than subjective. Dressed to Kill, I feel, was De Palma attempting to operate on a more subjective cinematic level.

You touched on something very interesting in this post. I think the need to be more realistic and less cinematic in modern films have made them generic. Two of the more widely praised modern mainstream directors, Tarantino and PT Anderson, are extremely cinematic filmmakers. They are clearly influenced by filmmakers like Kubrick, Leone, Scorsese, De Palma, and Altman, who were/are not afraid to make bold films and be extremely cinematic. I'd say Tarantino is particularly influenced by De Palma, Leone, Scorsese, and John Woo. I think PTA is clearly influenced most by Kubrick and Altman. And De Palma was clearly influenced by Hitchcock.

But a lot of people weaned on modern cinema are reluctant to embrace something that's daft and over-the top. "Mad Max: Fury Road" felt so different IMO, whether you liked it or not, because it embraced being cinematic. I mean, think about how widely praised Christopher Nolan's "Batman" films are for being so gritty and realistic. But people forget that it's about a damn fictional superhero, so it's meant to be absurd in the first place. Even absurd subjects are treated in such a rote way in modern film.

[SkyAntoine]

Originally Posted by Snicket

Any discussion of Roeg that does not include this film is a wasted discussion.



The Witches (4/10) Movie CLIP - Maximum Results! (1990) HD - YouTube

My kids are a fan of that film so I give Roeg a pass. I will say I would rather watch this 4x in a row than watch Bad Timing again.

[812crew]

I know this is a Criterion discussion, and I don't want to go off topic, but would anyone be willing to PM some recommendations of the best blu-ray purchases that are from a different company / distributor....but that might as well be Criterion releases (in terms of similar type of film, features, etc...). Thanks!

[happydood]

Originally Posted by llj

I think De Palma was going for a heightened sense of cinema, and the overpowering music was a big part of it. And when you exaggerate every element, especially the music, what you have is a movie that puts its emotions on its sleeve. Dressed to Kill is a conventionally written thriller that's just directed completely to the max. Every element is turned up to 11: swooning music, swirling cameras, slow-mo, every cinematic trick in the book. And I think, especially today, many audiences are not as receptive to the kind of naked, unabashed kind of melodramatic cinema anymore because of where we are culturally and socially. There are SO MANY THINGS now we consider "cringeworthy" or "awkward", and much of this is centered on how we display our emotions. Scorsese is the closest thing to someone who still occasionally 'exaggerates' cinematically, but he tends to use well known musical tracks in an ironic or distancing sense in those scenes.

I don't know if I can really articulate this right, but in the 1930s, 40s, and 50s, audiences accepted the heightened drama and absurdities of cinema. Somewhere around the 1960s, there was a movement towards more 'realistic' cinematic depictions of emotion. Acting styles changed too. Less broad, more minimalist. There was a demand, that still carries to today, that film more or less be objective rather than subjective. Dressed to Kill, I feel, was De Palma attempting to operate on a more subjective cinematic level.

As for popularity, I haven't checked the box office numbers, but I get the impression from the extras that Dressed to Kill was a populist hit at the time.

I appreciate what you're saying, but I don't know that I agree with this. I think he's for sure drunk on style pretty much most of the time and masquerading it as sentiment, but I don't think it's ever genuinely what it appears to be- even when he plays it relatively straight a la The Untouchables.. I also think it's a style whose trappings became a little worn from overuse, hence the cliche- and not because nobody else was doing the same thing. Don't get me wrong- I love a lot of his films- but certainly Spielberg is THE master of melodramatic and sentimental manipulation, but he has a larger vocabulary than DePalma and couches it in slightly different terms these days- but it's still there.

Scorsese is downright subtle in my opinion compared to the two, while folks like Lynch and Tarantino ironically draw attention to how earnest they're being at the same time

[Show spoiler](the pregnancy revelation during the stand-off in Kill Bill and the 'valuable lesson in life' at the end of Wild At Heart come to mind)

and get away with it because of it.

[Knaldskalle]

Originally Posted by 812crew

I know this is a Criterion discussion, and I don't want to go off topic, but would anyone be willing to PM some recommendations of the best blu-ray purchases that are from a different company / distributor....but that might as well be Criterion releases (in terms of similar type of film, features, etc...). Thanks!

The UK label Eureka has their Masters of Cinema (MoC) series which has a large overlap with Criterion. Pretty much anything that's on that label should be considered "worthy" of consideration if you're a Criterion fan.

[atlantajoseph]

Cohen Media Group also has some good titles in Region A.

Also Kino and Raro Video.