The Criterion Collection

[CriterionBlues]

Fat Girl is divisive. The Following less so, but Nolan seems divisive these days. Either way I'd say that The Following is safer, but Fat Girl is the better film in my opinion.

[SammyJankis]

Originally Posted by darkness2918

So, Fat Girl or The Following. Which is the better blind buy? Both sound interesting, ive seen almost everything Nolan has done except The Following.

Following. If you're a Nolan fan, it's interesting to see where his interests began.

Fat Girl is way too divisive to recommend a blind buy. I personally loathe it, mainly for the ending. I'd watch it before going through with a purchase.

[jmclick]

Originally Posted by jw007

Is there a certain subculture or term that applies to people who are attracted to the most graphically explicit films (whether its violence or sex) and end up buying and collecting those types of films? Perhaps a few examples in the Criterion Collection would be Salò (rape, scat and torture), In the Realm of the Senses (graphic sex scenes), The Tin Drum (child pornography), Island of Lost Souls (animal cruelty), Flesh for Frankenstein (perversity/depravity), I Am Curious - Yellow (explicit sexuality), Hunger (torture), Fat Girl (depravity), Straw Dogs (rape), Gimme Shelter (murder caught on film), Sweet Movie (scatological orgies), Antichrist (sexual violence) and Night and Fog (real-life atrocities).

Of the 13 films mentioned above, I own 4 of them (Island of Lost Souls, Hunger, Gimme Shelter and In the Realm of the Senses). I'm guessing some people fall into a special class of collectors that seek out movies like those mentioned above, but thankfully I'm not one of those.

Of the 13 films you mentioned, I own 10 them ... but I should add two caveats: first, I haven't actually watched all 10; and secondly, some of them I own because I'm a Criterion completist, not because I bought them based on the subject matter and any prurient or perverse interest on my part.

Of the five I have seen, I honestly would never put Island of Lost Souls, Hunger, or Night and Fog on any list of "graphically explicit" films. Straw Dogs and Antichrist? Absolutely! Both of them offended my personal sensibilities, the former because it's possibly the most misogynist film I've ever seen, and the latter because I felt Von Triers took an intriguing relationship between two interesting characters and twisted it into something depraved ... and not for the sake of the story or to make an artistic statement, but just because he could.

[Al_The_Strange]

Originally Posted by jw007

Is there a certain subculture or term that applies to people who are attracted to the most graphically explicit films (whether its violence or sex) and end up buying and collecting those types of films? Perhaps a few examples in the Criterion Collection would be Salò (rape, scat and torture), In the Realm of the Senses (graphic sex scenes), The Tin Drum (child pornography), Island of Lost Souls (animal cruelty), Flesh for Frankenstein (perversity/depravity), I Am Curious - Yellow (explicit sexuality), Hunger (torture), Fat Girl (depravity), Straw Dogs (rape), Gimme Shelter (murder caught on film), Sweet Movie (scatological orgies), Antichrist (sexual violence) and Night and Fog (real-life atrocities).

Of the 13 films mentioned above, I own 4 of them (Island of Lost Souls, Hunger, Gimme Shelter and In the Realm of the Senses). I'm guessing some people fall into a special class of collectors that seek out movies like those mentioned above, but thankfully I'm not one of those.

Not sure if there's a subculture that gravitates towards these types of films, but I do think it is a very specific interest that many people will be appalled by.

Of the ones you mentioned, I own 6 of them. For whatever reason, I don't group them all in the same regard - I think Island of Lost Souls is a pretty classy, tasteful adaptation of the Island of Dr. Moreau story. Any depravity there is pretty implicit. Gimme Shelter is straight-up a documentary - I bought it for the music and the history of it, rather than the actual murder (I don't even remember the film showing anything in graphic detail). Fat Girl is pretty dark and explicit, but aside from the sex I didn't find it that violent.

However, Salo is as graphic and messed-up as they come, and it is one I watched to purposefully push the envelope (and I ultimately became enamored by how well-crafted it actually is). I bought Hunger hoping for something just as hard-hitting (I think it's pretty mild compared to other films). Antichrist, the same (and it is quite gnarly, despite having some of the most beautiful scenery I've ever seen).

To me, films that fall into this category of graphicness and pushing the envelope would have to include A Serbian Film, I Spit On Your Grave (1978 or 2010, really), Inside, the Saw series, Martyrs, Eden Lake, Hostel, Human Centipede, Ichi the Killer, Cannibal Holocaust, maybe I Saw the Devil and OldBoy, and probably many others. I spent a fair amount of time pushing my personal envelope, and found that the best of these are ones that tell an interesting story, either in spite of or despite the intensity of their violence. If they didn't have any redeeming value, I would have dismissed them all as shallow exploitation garbage (as I ultimately did with Ilsa: She Wolf of the SS).

I do think there may be a bigger cult or subculture around the films that emphasize gore more (the gorehounds). Because while all the above movies are violent, they're more about the suffering than about the blood (which makes them more relevant imo). The flipside is that some movies have so much blood and gore, they become ridiculous, over-the-top, and harder to take seriously. Some are straight-up comedies. Good movies in this category would include Tokyo Gore Police, Street Trash, Basket Case, Pink Flamingos, various Troma films, and maybe even bigger Hollywood flicks like RoboCop, Total Recall, and Kill Bill. There are probably crossovers between these two styles of violent films though (especially with something like Saw, which people will seek out for both the gore and the suffering).

I personally think the first group of films are often the most worthwhile, because they have the stories worth telling (at their best anyway) and they are experiences that can underscore the worst of humanity to dig up themes to reflect on. The latter category is funner, just because nothing is taken seriously.

[Al_The_Strange]

Originally Posted by darkness2918

So, Fat Girl or The Following. Which is the better blind buy? Both sound interesting, ive seen almost everything Nolan has done except The Following.

Get The Following, especially if you like Nolan to begin with. It's pretty much on the same level as Memento.

Fat Girl is pretty slow and has one messed-up ending. I'd recommend caution, especially as a blind-buy. I do think it has an interesting story that warrants thoughtful themes, but it's not an easy watch.

[OrchidClub]

Originally Posted by jw007

Is there a certain subculture or term that applies to people who are attracted to the most graphically explicit films (whether its violence or sex) and end up buying and collecting those types of films?

Yeah, they're called "people with good taste in movies".

[jw007]

Originally Posted by OrchidClub

Yeah, they're called "people with good taste in movies".

And no pun intended, right?

p.s. I see you're in Pittsburgh too, interesting.

[jw007]

pedromvu, jmclick, Al_The_Strange,

Good comments, thanks. Did you guys or anyone else ever come across this great link showcasing some of the banned films in the Criterion Collection?

https://www.criterion.com/lists/1703...orbidden-films

No doubt, I would say its a bit of a stretch to include films such as Hunger, Night and Fog, Island of Lost Souls and Gimme Shelter along with the other titles I mentioned. Though I've never seen Night and Fog (as I realize its a historical documentary on the Holocaust), the other 3 films are either great morality tales or biopics/docs.

Pushing one's personal envelope is always bold, and I continue to do this despite sometimes being ashamed of myself for that. Being aware of grotesque images in film probably is good for educational purposes, but personally if I ever were to watch Salò, I'll watch it once and that's it.

[Arawn]

Originally Posted by darkness2918

So, Fat Girl or The Following. Which is the better blind buy? Both sound interesting, ive seen almost everything Nolan has done except The Following.

Originally Posted by polaroid

The Following is the the one I would go with, but if you can get both! TF is one of Nolans best films imo, I wish he started making more films like his early ones.

Originally Posted by Al_The_Strange

Get The Following, especially if you like Nolan to begin with. It's pretty much on the same level as Memento.

To nitpick, it's "Following", not "The Following".

[Polaroid]

Originally Posted by Arawn

To nitpick, it's "Following", not "The Following".

Eh I always forget and just copied what they wrote above me lol plus also stuck in head cause of 'Room' which sounds better as 'The Room' lol

Ah well!

[CriterionBlues]

Originally Posted by Arawn

To nitpick, it's "Following", not "The Following".

I blame Kevin Bacon.

[MifuneFan]

For any fans of David Lynch, this doc looks like it might be an interesting watch

My Beautiful Broken Brain - Official Trailer - Netflix [HD] - YouTube

[jmclick]

Originally Posted by jw007

pedromvu, jmclick, Al_The_Strange,

Good comments, thanks. Did you guys or anyone else ever come across this great link showcasing some of the banned films in the Criterion Collection?

https://www.criterion.com/lists/1703...orbidden-films

No doubt, I would say its a bit of a stretch to include films such as Hunger, Night and Fog, Island of Lost Souls and Gimme Shelter along with the other titles I mentioned. Though I've never seen Night and Fog (as I realize its a historical documentary on the Holocaust), the other 3 films are either great morality tales or biopics/docs.

Pushing one's personal envelope is always bold, and I continue to do this despite sometimes being ashamed of myself for that. Being aware of grotesque images in film probably is good for educational purposes, but personally if I ever were to watch Salò, I'll watch it once and that's it.

You really owe it to yourself to see Night and Fog. Everyone does. In 1975, French critics were surveyed and asked to name the greatest French films of all time. A total of 45 films were named. Night and Fog was ranked 19th. I think what distinguishes it from other documentaries about the Holocaust is that it was filmed just 10 years after the end of World War II, while the land ... and people's emotions and memories ... were still raw. Certainly, the protests it engendered were due to Renais' dogged dedication to the truth regardless of people's sensibilities: the Germans were upset because they didn't want the whole country and its people linked to Nazism; the French wanted to bury any evidence of wartime collaboration between their government and Hitler. Today, those concerns don't have the impact or immediacy that they once did, and the film can be regarded and evaluated for what it actually is: a powerful and disturbing reminder of one of the most heinous periods in modern human history.

[Wooden Lens]

If you're blind buying I'd say Following. If you're a fan of dour European Cinema then you can't beat Fat Girl! I personally love it.

[llj]

Originally Posted by Polaroid

Porn is made to get you off.

In In the Realm of the Senses isn't aiming to do that.

That is the difference between porn and erotic cinema (in my opinion).

This.

Porn, especially ones made in the last 20 years, is mostly a series of f*ck scenes and money shots. Scene opens with two people looking each other and then they screw. No story or anything.

Erotic cinema always has a story.

The evolution of porn has made the difference very clear. Now if this were 30-40 years ago in the golden age of porn when most of them had stories, then the line would be more blurred because a lot of films from that era that used to be considered "porn" would clearly be in a different category today.

I think both types can get a person "off", though. Certainly, some people somewhere have gotten off to In The Realm of the Senses, Antichrist, Nymphomaniac, etc,. and I'm sure the directors of those films probably wouldn't have minded if people did either.

[llj]

Originally Posted by pedromvu

Nice list, I only own 2, but I wouldn't consider Island of Lost Souls as having animal cruelty.

Wake in Fright would be the obvious example for this category, at least non Criterion wise.

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by jw007

Island of Lost Souls (animal cruelty)

I would say that Jean Renoir's The Rules of the Game has more animal cruelty than any other title in the Collection.

[Al_The_Strange]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

I would say that Jean Renoir's The Rules of the Game has more animal cruelty than any other title in the Collection.

Even worse than Touki Bouki or Moment of Truth? Yikes.

[Rich Pure Doom]

Originally Posted by llj

Wake in Fright would be the obvious example for this category, at least non Criterion wise.

I own this film but have been holding off on watching it. How bad is the animal cruelty?

[kylec123]

I honestly don't remember thinking Wake In Fright went too far on animal cruelty. The only thing I can remember that happens is them shooting some kangaroo's.